I'm hooked - what to do to the car

[JQ]

Had a taster session at Oulton Park in my Mk2 MX5 yesterday and I'm hooked after only 20 mins.

I now want to do a full days session but make sure I'm safe. I really don't want to go spending a fortune and definately don't need to be the fastest on the track, so the intention is to put a roll bar on the 5, improve the brake fluid and get the wheels laser aligned.

It's been suggested that I should get a bucket seat and harness, but am loathed to spend the cash and had intended buying a CG Lock (http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/app/performance/). What are people thoughts on this? Could I get away with a harness on standard MX5 seats?

I think the rest of the car is reasonably well set up - Michelin PE2's, Mazda pads and disks, fresh fully synth oil, new oil filter, new fuel filter, fresh coolant, Torsen LSD, and uprated standard suspension.

Is there anything else I should be thinking of to make sure I'm safe, considering I'll only do a couple of track days a year and the car is my daily driver.

Cheers

[whiteonyx]

go for safety first option and fit the roll hoops, not only do they look good on the MX but gives a bit of protection. Be carefull as performance parts will put your insurance up or invalidate it if you don't declare them, even race decals will up your policy let alone induction kits etc.

[JQ]

Cheers. I must admit my insurance is already loaded as I have a declared induction kit, so I can add some more mods without it costing any more. They've already said they won't charge me for a roll bar, but have not enquired about bucket seats or harnesses. I'm not sure how keen they'll be on those as Direct Line are not well known for their modified car insurance.

[The Walrus]

The other things to think about if you can spare the cash are uprated or poly bushes ?

[steveavxt]

If you don't think you need a bucket seat and harness you probably don't. Regular belts are safe enough TBH. A bucket and harness will keep you from sliding around in your seat and I find they help me feel what the car is doing a lot more. CG locks are great at keeping you still so it will deffo help. Now I've been tracking with a harness for a while I would struggle to go back to using a standard belt. For insurance you may want to check out CCI, they don't even ask you to declare mods as long as the ammount you have insured for will cover the cost of the car including mods. Track day cover included too (6 days i think)

[Chris71]

whiteonyx said:

go for safety first option and fit the roll hoops, not only do they look good on the MX but gives a bit of protection. Be carefull as performance parts will put your insurance up or invalidate it if you don't declare them, even race decals will up your policy let alone induction kits etc.

Can you get structural roll hoops? I thought the individual hopes were usually a styling thing?

Edited by Chris71 on Thursday 29th July 12:08

[JQ]

Chris71 said:

whiteonyx said:

go for safety first option and fit the roll hoops, not only do they look good on the MX but gives a bit of protection. Be carefull as performance parts will put your insurance up or invalidate it if you don't declare them, even race decals will up your policy let alone induction kits etc.

Can you get structural roll hopes? I thought the individual hopes were usually a styling thing?

My intention would be to get a GPV bar from TR Lane http://www.trlanefabs.co.uk/MAZDA-MX5-GPV-ROLLBAR....

I must admit, I'm not that bothered about it looking pretty, just making sure I don't get squashed.

[Chris71]

Ahem, sorry excuse the spelling. Yep, from what I've heard in the past (with regards MX5s) a conventional roll bar like you've got there seems to be better regarded than hoops. Another one that kept coming up when I looked was called something like the Hard Dog(?)

[JQ]

Chris71 said:

Ahem, sorry excuse the spelling. Yep, from what I've heard in the past (with regards MX5s) a conventional roll bar like you've got there seems to be better regarded than hoops. Another one that kept coming up when I looked was called something like the Hard Dog(?)

You're quite right, however I always thought Hard Dog bars were very expensive. Anyway I've sent an email to the supplier to see how much it costs to get one delivered.

[GreigM]

I think your plans are fine - can't comment on the hoops/bars but fresh pads might be the only thing to consider if they are even half worn (the thicker the material the less quickly they'll overheat)....apart from that get some tuition and enjoy. Next stop would be tyres.

[Jimblebob]

Not sure how your tyres are coping but the biggest improvement I found was fitting semi-slicks.

[JQ]

The Walrus said:

The other things to think about if you can spare the cash are uprated or poly bushes ?

What will this do and how much is it likely to cost?

[The Walrus]

Less movement in the suspension bushes so a more stable and direct platform for your damapers to work from all the info hear.

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/why_pu.php

Cost depends on how far you go but each bush is £20.00 odd and you can do the topmounts control arms you name it, most of the cost is in the fitting.

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/MX-5+Mk1+%2819...

[GravelBen]

Rollbar helps tighten the MX5 chassis up nicely as well as the obvious safety factor.

Bucket seats are nice (Momo T-frame bolt onto Mk1 MX5 rails pretty easily, not sure how different the Mk2 is) or for a free way of getting more lateral support try the 'foamectomy' - there was a thread about it in the MX5 section not long ago.

I wouldn't bother with semi-slicks, sure they'll make you faster (once you get used to them) but I don't think you'd have as much fun as you can with an MX5 on normal road tyres. Gotta keep the power/grip equation balanced right.

MX5's are pretty easy on brakes, my previous Mk1 did 2 years of hard driving including 3 trackdays without wearing out the pads it had when I bought it. Stopped hard every time, never even threatened to fade. Decent fluid is worth the (fairly insignificant) cost and effort to change it though.

PS alignment-wise... from memory here is a fairly sensible MX5 road/track setup in case you don't go to somewhere like WIM that knows MX5s:

Castor: max available (4.5°+)

Front Camber: -1.0°
Front Toe: Very slight toe-in, or zero toe for a pointier feel.

Rear Camber: -1.5°
Rear Toe: Slight toe-in.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 30th July 11:43

[JQ]

Cheers. I think I'm going to try and get away without buckets or harness and just use a CG Lock.

The place I'm taking it to for the alignment (Nigel Lang), I believe is the only place that WIM endorse and I think they actually share data, so hopefully they'll know what they're doing - I'll certainly take your data with me, just in case.

[pikeyboy]

GravelBen said:

Rollbar helps tighten the MX5 chassis up nicely as well as the obvious safety factor.

Bucket seats are nice (Momo T-frame bolt onto Mk1 MX5 rails pretty easily, not sure how different the Mk2 is) or for a free way of getting more lateral support try the 'foamectomy' - there was a thread about it in the MX5 section not long ago.

I wouldn't bother with semi-slicks, sure they'll make you faster (once you get used to them) but I don't think you'd have as much fun as you can with an MX5 on normal road tyres. Gotta keep the power/grip equation balanced right.

MX5's are pretty easy on brakes, my previous Mk1 did 2 years of hard driving including 3 trackdays without wearing out the pads it had when I bought it. Stopped hard every time, never even threatened to fade. Decent fluid is worth the (fairly insignificant) cost and effort to change it though.

PS alignment-wise... from memory here is a fairly sensible MX5 road/track setup in case you don't go to somewhere like WIM that knows MX5s:

Castor: max available (4.5°+)

Front Camber: -1.0°
Front Toe: Very slight toe-in, or zero toe for a pointier feel.

Rear Camber: -1.5°
Rear Toe: Slight toe-in.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 30th July 11:43

Personal thing this but I'd steer clear of setting tracking dead ahead at zero toe as this makes the car feel very twitchy on both the road and track. A tad of toe out makes for a better turn in on track, toe in is for road cars.

Get as much castor as you can, this will weight up the steering feeling nicely. Camber will work ok as mentioned above but you can runa bit more both front and rear.

MX5's work well on track I've run two of them previosuly set up using a derivative of the famous lanny settings simillar to below

http://www.mx5ireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&...

The IceHawk specs have more toe out for quicker turn in (but your straight line will be a bit twitchy).

Front
Caster: Maximum
Camber: -1.5°
Toe out 1/16" per side

Rear
Camber: -2°
Toe in 1/16" per side

Edited by pikeyboy on Friday 30th July 12:42

[GravelBen]

pikeyboy said:

Personal thing this but I'd steer clear of setting tracking dead ahead at zero toe as this makes the car feel very twitchy on both the road and track. A tad of toe out makes for a better turn in on track, toe in is for road cars.

Get as much castor as you can, this will weight up the steering feeling nicely. Camber will work ok as mentioned above but you can runa bit more both front and rear.

I never found mine twitchy with those settings, but its possible my memory is playing up and I didn't actually have zero on that car.

How does your extra camber level feel on the road? I've heard talk of it causing tramlining and uneven tyre wear, which were never problems with 1/1.5 (I later went to 1.1/1.4 just for fun but that might be a bit too pointy for some people)

[pikeyboy]

GravelBen said:

pikeyboy said:

Personal thing this but I'd steer clear of setting tracking dead ahead at zero toe as this makes the car feel very twitchy on both the road and track. A tad of toe out makes for a better turn in on track, toe in is for road cars.

Get as much castor as you can, this will weight up the steering feeling nicely. Camber will work ok as mentioned above but you can runa bit more both front and rear.

I never found mine twitchy with those settings, but its possible my memory is playing up and I didn't actually have zero on that car.

How does your extra camber level feel on the road? I've heard talk of it causing tramlining and uneven tyre wear, which were never problems with 1/1.5 (I later went to 1.1/1.4 just for fun but that might be a bit too pointy for some people)

I've not got an MX5 anymore, but from memory when I had they handled fine on the road with the tad of extra camber no tramlining etc. Maybe wore the inner edges of the tires slightly quicker but using 195 50 15 toyos they are cheap as chips from camskill so never worried about it.

Anyway we seem to be getting off topic here...For a trackday novice learning the lines and instruction will help a lot and pay more dividends than tweeking camber by a small amount for a start.

Infact to the OP I'd say keep the car box standard and spend cash on a days tutition and you'll be miles faster than by making changes to the car, your currently the week link (no offence intended).

In fact I know this as I used a brand new standard MX5 at Thruxton for tuition from the race school before I raced there a few years ago. I did this due to the limited testing and trackdays available there.

Edited by pikeyboy on Friday 30th July 13:14

[JQ]

pikeyboy said:

GravelBen said:

pikeyboy said:

Personal thing this but I'd steer clear of setting tracking dead ahead at zero toe as this makes the car feel very twitchy on both the road and track. A tad of toe out makes for a better turn in on track, toe in is for road cars.

Get as much castor as you can, this will weight up the steering feeling nicely. Camber will work ok as mentioned above but you can runa bit more both front and rear.

I never found mine twitchy with those settings, but its possible my memory is playing up and I didn't actually have zero on that car.

How does your extra camber level feel on the road? I've heard talk of it causing tramlining and uneven tyre wear, which were never problems with 1/1.5 (I later went to 1.1/1.4 just for fun but that might be a bit too pointy for some people)

I've not got an MX5 anymore, but from memory when I had they handled fine on the road with the tad of extra camber no tramlining etc. Maybe wore the inner edges of the tires slightly quicker but using 195 50 15 toyos they are cheap as chips from camskill so never worried about it.

Anyway we seem to be getting off topic here...For a trackday novice learning the lines and instruction will help a lot and pay more dividends than tweeking camber by a small amount for a start.

Infact to the OP I'd say keep the car box standard and spend cash on a days tutition and you'll be miles faster than by making changes to the car, your currently the week link (no offence intended).

In fact I know this as I used a brand new standard MX5 at Thruxton for tuition from the race school before I raced there a few years ago. I did this due to the limited testing and trackdays available there.

Edited by pikeyboy on Friday 30th July 13:14

Cheers.

I just thought that with it being a twelve year old car, the alignment may not be what it should and it's quite a cheap fix - been quoted £75-£85.

[GravelBen]

JQ said:

I just thought that with it being a twelve year old car, the alignment may not be what it should and it's quite a cheap fix - been quoted £75-£85.

Its certainly worth getting the alignment sorted out periodically even just for a road car, especially if its going on track as well. Its not a modification, more just putting it back how it should be... like making sure your tyre pressures are right.

I think the point being made above was once you have a half-decent alignment dialled in, just get stuck into driving the thing and learning to get the best from it rather than spending more on changing things around to improve car performance.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 30th July 13:37