Focused events now doing timing on trackdays
Discussion
Saw this today and wondered what peoples thoughts were?
http://www.focusedevents.com/chrono_days_cars.asp
On one hand, I think having all your lap times recorded does add an extra dimension to the day.
On the other, I worry that it will make some people push much harder than they otherwise would. (And also be more reluctant to move over for quicker cars)
I agree. I think it would lead to people pushing that bit harder than they otherwise would. They will also be reluctant to 'wait' to pass the car in front safely, and they would also be reluctant to move off line to allow a following faster car through.
I would predict things would end up more like a 'race', with people becoming more selfish with respect to their behaviour on track. No doubt the guys running the events and the guys driving on track are all great blokes, but my concern is that once you put a man in a car, on a track with a stopwatch his persona will change in the 'heat of the moment'.
I would choose to avoid these days because that's not what I want to get out of a trackday. If I want to 'race' then I'd go karting.
I would predict things would end up more like a 'race', with people becoming more selfish with respect to their behaviour on track. No doubt the guys running the events and the guys driving on track are all great blokes, but my concern is that once you put a man in a car, on a track with a stopwatch his persona will change in the 'heat of the moment'.
I would choose to avoid these days because that's not what I want to get out of a trackday. If I want to 'race' then I'd go karting.
Ive always timed my trackday via the use of a video camera. Times would be established AFTER the event when I got home and edited the footage.
Timing on the day in real-time will be ok for some, but others are simply too competitive for their own good (and talent) and so I would give these types of events a wide birth.
Nice to know that they are available however.
Timing on the day in real-time will be ok for some, but others are simply too competitive for their own good (and talent) and so I would give these types of events a wide birth.
Nice to know that they are available however.
supertouring said:
Ive always timed my trackday via the use of a video camera. Times would be established AFTER the event when I got home and edited the footage.
But you're still timing the laps. The fact that you don't know the time until afterwards is the same as Focused Events are offering. In the videoing case, how could you prove to an insurers satisfaction that you aren't reviewing the video after every session.
supertouring said:
Timing on the day in real-time will be ok for some, but others are simply too competitive for their own good (and talent) and so I would give these types of events a wide birth.
You're not given the times until after the event, so it would be no different in principle. It's just that if the organiser is advocating timing even one of the cars, then I'm sure an insurance company (whether it's from a track day specialist or included in your road policy) would baulk at paying out when a 3rd party hits you whilst on a 'timed run'.In either case you do not know your time until after the event has finished.
I'd assume (rightly or wrongly) that someone timing or videoing their sessions is more interested in showing off than one who isn't.
I can see nothing good about it whatsoever.
How many threads do we get on here about knobs at trackdays? Take those knobs and add a printout to compare with the gang in the pub afterwards.
I don't want to share track time with someone chasing a time at 11/10! Sure as eggs are eggs he will run out of talent and bend it!
How many threads do we get on here about knobs at trackdays? Take those knobs and add a printout to compare with the gang in the pub afterwards.
I don't want to share track time with someone chasing a time at 11/10! Sure as eggs are eggs he will run out of talent and bend it!
I think it depends how you get your results to a certain extent.
If there is a monitor in one of the garages where you can see everyones lap times then that clearly is a recipe for disaster. People will start to try and beat cars which a slightly faster than them.
If you log on when you get home, or just get a print out then that might not be so bad.
For instance, I video all of my sessions and have a very basic data logger running. (which also records lap times)
I don't drive quicker BECAUSE of these, I merely try to improve my lines / consistancy / speed as I would have done without them.
Seeing the result of this is the form of lower lap times can be pleasing.
I certainly aren't doing these things to 'show off' as someone implied. That's certainly not to say others don't do it for that reason however.
It's like anything I suppose, certain types of people will react to timing in a negative way and become even more erratic / dangerous.
More sensible types will continue as they otherwise would, but have a print out of accurate lap times during the day.
If there is a monitor in one of the garages where you can see everyones lap times then that clearly is a recipe for disaster. People will start to try and beat cars which a slightly faster than them.
If you log on when you get home, or just get a print out then that might not be so bad.
For instance, I video all of my sessions and have a very basic data logger running. (which also records lap times)
I don't drive quicker BECAUSE of these, I merely try to improve my lines / consistancy / speed as I would have done without them.
Seeing the result of this is the form of lower lap times can be pleasing.
I certainly aren't doing these things to 'show off' as someone implied. That's certainly not to say others don't do it for that reason however.
It's like anything I suppose, certain types of people will react to timing in a negative way and become even more erratic / dangerous.
More sensible types will continue as they otherwise would, but have a print out of accurate lap times during the day.
My understanding is that timing invalidates the CIRCUIT'S insurance, as well as the individuals? One has to assume that Focussed have addressed this, otherwise surely they would not be able to host a trackday at the circuit anyway?
To add my 10p to the video camera debate. Securely mounted cameras are allowed at trackdays, therefore it is reasonable to assume that one could obtain from their footage a time. Surely it would have to be demonstrated that the camera was used specifically for the purpose of timing in order to invalidate insurance. In this regard, as a camera is primarily a device to capture footage, a case could be argued. If you were specifically interested in timing yourself, you could fit a transponder.
Of course, im not advocating their use, just merely trying to give a reasonable explanation. Insurance companies are not known for being reasonable though!
I personally think that trackdays are generally becoming more widely available and affordable to those who simply see them as a chance to drive stupidly without the police catching them. Only at the more expensive days are you likely to find genuine enthusiasts with a dose of sensibility.
Whilst im all for trackdays being affordable, it does worry me that this opens the doors to those who are less likely to care if they prang into someone elses P&J. And before anyone suggests that bad driving = black flag, it only takes one idiot's stupidity to cause an accident before a black flag is able to be deployed
I dont think it will be long until you have to pass some kind of "test" (kind of like a mini ARDS) to demonstrate that you are able to drive on track safely. Either that or a "track day license" where you get stamped each time you go. Sounds very big brother, i know, but if you need a licence for the road, why not for the track, too
To add my 10p to the video camera debate. Securely mounted cameras are allowed at trackdays, therefore it is reasonable to assume that one could obtain from their footage a time. Surely it would have to be demonstrated that the camera was used specifically for the purpose of timing in order to invalidate insurance. In this regard, as a camera is primarily a device to capture footage, a case could be argued. If you were specifically interested in timing yourself, you could fit a transponder.
Of course, im not advocating their use, just merely trying to give a reasonable explanation. Insurance companies are not known for being reasonable though!
I personally think that trackdays are generally becoming more widely available and affordable to those who simply see them as a chance to drive stupidly without the police catching them. Only at the more expensive days are you likely to find genuine enthusiasts with a dose of sensibility.
Whilst im all for trackdays being affordable, it does worry me that this opens the doors to those who are less likely to care if they prang into someone elses P&J. And before anyone suggests that bad driving = black flag, it only takes one idiot's stupidity to cause an accident before a black flag is able to be deployed
I dont think it will be long until you have to pass some kind of "test" (kind of like a mini ARDS) to demonstrate that you are able to drive on track safely. Either that or a "track day license" where you get stamped each time you go. Sounds very big brother, i know, but if you need a licence for the road, why not for the track, too
Getting the timing from video footage is so time consuming and inaccurate, I would think you could prove that it's essentially useless for lap timing on the day.
If people are really interested in timing laps, they'd be using a transponder or a GPS receiver anyway.
I also agree that I wouldn't want to be on track with people who were timing. If I did, I'd go on a testing day or enter a race series.
If people are really interested in timing laps, they'd be using a transponder or a GPS receiver anyway.
I also agree that I wouldn't want to be on track with people who were timing. If I did, I'd go on a testing day or enter a race series.
snorkel sucker said:
I personally think that trackdays are generally becoming more widely available and affordable to those who simply see them as a chance to drive stupidly without the police catching them. Only at the more expensive days are you likely to find genuine enthusiasts with a dose of sensibility.
Whilst im all for trackdays being affordable, it does worry me that this opens the doors to those who are less likely to care if they prang into someone elses P&J. And before anyone suggests that bad driving = black flag, it only takes one idiot's stupidity to cause an accident before a black flag is able to be deployed
I dont think it will be long until you have to pass some kind of "test" (kind of like a mini ARDS) to demonstrate that you are able to drive on track safely. Either that or a "track day license" where you get stamped each time you go. Sounds very big brother, i know, but if you need a licence for the road, why not for the track, too
I get uneasy when people talk about getting really cheap track cars so they can afford to bin them rather than risk their 'P&J', as if a crash is at some point inevitable. It suggests there are too many people at track days taking excessive risks and ignoring the fact that it might not be just their car that gets damaged when their talent runs out.Whilst im all for trackdays being affordable, it does worry me that this opens the doors to those who are less likely to care if they prang into someone elses P&J. And before anyone suggests that bad driving = black flag, it only takes one idiot's stupidity to cause an accident before a black flag is able to be deployed
I dont think it will be long until you have to pass some kind of "test" (kind of like a mini ARDS) to demonstrate that you are able to drive on track safely. Either that or a "track day license" where you get stamped each time you go. Sounds very big brother, i know, but if you need a licence for the road, why not for the track, too
It is only a good idea if all the individuals taking part have the same mind set and maturity. If everyone was aware and sensible when it came to the act of overtaking/ letting faster cars past than it could add a great dimension to the trackday. Also it needs people who can understand the term 'drive within your limits'
I did a timed trackday with carling in a KTM Xbow and everyone was sensible and mature, also the organisers took more of an interest in what was going on on track. For example if you fell off they would ask you to come in and decuss what happened in a friendly manner. This I felt kept everyone humble and aware of there driving capabilities.
I did a timed trackday with carling in a KTM Xbow and everyone was sensible and mature, also the organisers took more of an interest in what was going on on track. For example if you fell off they would ask you to come in and decuss what happened in a friendly manner. This I felt kept everyone humble and aware of there driving capabilities.
As an organiser I don't understand this bit
"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
gtdc said:
As an organiser I don't understand this bit
"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
Maybe they're planning on running all the track days remotely from headquarters in woking or something?"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
They have a reasonably valid argument for timing on a sessioned day to split drivers up. Where that falls down is the open pit lane events - a massive flaw in the logic there!
jonnyleroux said:
gtdc said:
As an organiser I don't understand this bit
"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
Maybe they're planning on running all the track days remotely from headquarters in woking or something?"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
They have a reasonably valid argument for timing on a sessioned day to split drivers up. Where that falls down is the open pit lane events - a massive flaw in the logic there!
Melindi
gtdc said:
jonnyleroux said:
gtdc said:
As an organiser I don't understand this bit
"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
Maybe they're planning on running all the track days remotely from headquarters in woking or something?"This provides useful information for us which we can use to build an accurate picture of the drivers on the event and how things are going."
Why would I need to time you for that? We have marshals, race control, cameras, instructors etc.
Melindi
They have a reasonably valid argument for timing on a sessioned day to split drivers up. Where that falls down is the open pit lane events - a massive flaw in the logic there!
Melindi
Hmmmm I think I'll sit back and watch how it unfolds. It's bad enough in the wet with the day being stopped every five minutes. Add timing into the mix and goodness knows where things could end up. But I'm not claiming to know all the ins and outs about these Chrono Days, so as I said, I'll observe for the time being...
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