First track car advice appreciated

[IanOE]

Hi, I've been reading PistonHeads for a long time but I've never posted before.

I am currently thinking of getting myself a track car and I have a budget of approx £2,000, but could go a bit higher for the right car. I am trying to be sensible (well I'll give it a go) and so I am looking at cars where the work has already been completed to strip the car out, add a roll cage and some modifications for the track. I want a car that is quite small and lightweight but I am not 100% sure whether I want to go for front wheel drive or rear wheel drive, I know that both have their advantages and disadvantages. I would drive the car to and from the track, so would want it road registered and MoT'ed but wouldn't need it for day to day driving.

Anyway, I have been looking on various websites and have come up with the following eclectic selection of cars:

http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6...

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2671489.htm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-VOLKSWAGEN-SCIROCCO-1-8...

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2609574.htm

http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6...

I would appreciate any opinions about the above cars and whether they have any experience of similar cars, or know of any other suitable cars available that fit my criteria.

[wackojacko]

205 if any of the above the rest look not so great as ideally you want a 1.8 mx5 and thats verging on speed but it's all about fun and what you prefer.
Sirroco looks a pile of st !
These are Slightly over budget but will be worth it :
-G60 Jetta : http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1764519.htm
-Mr2 MK2 (very good option considered this very car myself) : http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2609574.htm
- Sunny GTI http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2579486.htm


all three are very very capable cars and would far out run and be more fun than the above.... plus they look as if they have been looked after better/kept to a higher standard.

[IanOE]

Hi, thanks for the feedback. I am very tempted by that yellow MR2, did you actually go and see that car?

[GravelBen]

wackojacko said:

..ideally you want a 1.8 mx5 and thats verging on speed but it's all about fun and what you prefer...

To be honest there is bugger all difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 Mk1 MX5s in real terms - the 1.8 has a bit more torque while the 1.6 feels a bit revvier.

The main advantage of the 1.8 as a track car is the bigger brakes will be useful if you up the power significantly, but even bog standard 1.6 brakes are well up to track use at standard power levels.

The first MX5 you list looks nice and has a lot of good bits on it, as standard they're not the quickest thing around in a straight line but huge fun and very, very good in the corners. The only other thing I'll add is that a rollbar makes a quite noticable difference to chassis rigidity, and I personally wouldn't want to take one on track without one.

As far as that yellow MR2 goes, the full cage would put me off as I like to use my cars on the road as well.

With regards to the other suggestions, Fwd doesn't appeal to me so I'll leave it for others to comment on those.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 1st April 12:12

[stevieboy72]

GravelBen said:

To be honest there is bugger all difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 Mk1 MX5s in real terms - the 1.8 has a bit more torque while the 1.6 feels a bit revvier.

The main advantage of the 1.8 as a track car is the bigger brakes will be useful if you up the power significantly, but even bog standard 1.6 brakes are well up to track use at standard power levels.

The first MX5 you list looks nice and has a lot of good bits on it, as standard they're not the quickest thing around in a straight line but huge fun and very, very good in the corners. The only other thing I'll add is that a rollbar makes a quite noticable difference to chassis rigidity, and I personally wouldn't want to take one on track without one.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 1st April 12:12

AGREE TOTALLY.

Mine's a '94 UK 1.8, I bought it because I thought having the more powerful 130bhp engine it would make a difference on track, but there's bugger all between 1.6/1.8. With a decent suspension / brake / tyre set-up they are fantastic fun especially on a short, twisty circuit such as Brands Indy. Even at a fast long track like Silverstone you'll still have buckets of fun, but you'll get passed by all the more powerful cars on the straights, and then probably catch them up on the next few bends.

I bought mine as bog standard, spent a good few hundred on 2nd hand coilovers, uprated brake pads, etc. Even as completely standard it was great fun out on track...



Sorry, I only looked at the 1st advert for the MX5 (bargain!), just a tad biased :-)

[IanOE]

I am thinking more about rear wheel drive cars although I've always wanted a Peugeot 205 Gti and I think that this is clouding my judgement a bit. It's good to see that the MX5 is getting good feedback and it looks like maybe I should be focussing my search on one. Thanks for providing useful information about them, they sound ideal and as it would be my first track day car I am not so bothered about straight line speed, I want to have a car that is fun in the corners.

Do standard MX5s have any sort of rollover protection? Also, are the rollover hoops that some cars are advertised with just for show, or they some sort of alternative for a rollbar? Would using a hard top on the circuit negate the need for a rollbar and also stiffen the chassis? Sorry if these seem like stupid questions, I am just assessing the options as most MX5s don't come with a roll bar anfd I'd rather not limit my options.

I would be grateful for any further advice or owners' experiences of using an MX5 on the track.

[5paul5]

As standard the mx5 will offer no protection in the event of a roll. Most hoops you see behind the seats are just style bars and again offer virtually no protection. What you really need is a proper roll bar/cage that is fitted correctly even if you have a hardtop.

[IanOE]

5paul5 said:

As standard the mx5 will offer no protection in the event of a roll. Most hoops you see behind the seats are just style bars and again offer virtually no protection. What you really need is a proper roll bar/cage that is fitted correctly even if you have a hardtop.

Ah, thanks. I'll have to make sure that if I do get an MX5 I'll get one with a rollbar already fitted then as I would imagine that they're quite expensive to buy and fit.

[GravelBen]

IanOE said:

5paul5 said:

As standard the mx5 will offer no protection in the event of a roll. Most hoops you see behind the seats are just style bars and again offer virtually no protection. What you really need is a proper roll bar/cage that is fitted correctly even if you have a hardtop.

Ah, thanks. I'll have to make sure that if I do get an MX5 I'll get one with a rollbar already fitted then as I would imagine that they're quite expensive to buy and fit.

As he said a lot are just 'style bars', its easy to check as those ones just attach to the seatbelt mounts rather than down to the floor, and have no rearward bracing.

IIRC the TR Lane rollbars are the most common UK option at around the £300 mark, so not too bad a cost.

[ChevronB19]

If you want RWD how about a Porsche 924? Plenty around, there is a race series from them, and you can pick up an ex race car for far cheaper than it would cost you to convert a road car....

[joe_90]

The old classic a bmw 325/8 is a good choice, easy to work on, cheap as chip, cheap bits to replace broken bits, RWD, good 50/50 ish weight, plenty of bits to upgrade.. In the worse case the engine goes pop, a new one is 250-300 quid.

And if you bend it, get a new shell and move all the bits across.

With a bit of blagging, we got this (all in [including trailer]) for 2.6K (built ourselves)

Bmw 325
plastic windows, stripped out.
gaz coilovers, solid top mounts + strut braces
2 sets of wheels BBS + others, one with A408's and road tyres(wet)
new steering wheel
poly bushed front/rear
bucket seats, welded in solid mounts (for race harnesses)
+ other bits and bobs (new waterpump, coolant, thermostat) + oil change/filter

Stupid orange strip was free, (its the Veyron supersport look you see [ask my daughter])

And when ready, a m3 engine will drop in.


Note, try (if using on a airfield days with tight turns) get one with a LSD.

Edited by joe_90 on Sunday 3rd April 08:55

[wackojacko]

currently looking at either a mk2 golf GTI or 323i (m50 manifold conversion etc) as a track/fast road project...... yours is very nice indeed.

[IanOE]

GravelBen said:

As he said a lot are just 'style bars', its easy to check as those ones just attach to the seatbelt mounts rather than down to the floor, and have no rearward bracing.

IIRC the TR Lane rollbars are the most common UK option at around the £300 mark, so not too bad a cost.

Ah, thanks for the info. They're not as expensive as I'd thought, although I would need to get someone to fit one for me as I'm rubbish at that sort of thing, so I'd have to factor in the cost of that.

[IanOE]

ChevronB19 said:

If you want RWD how about a Porsche 924? Plenty around, there is a race series from them, and you can pick up an ex race car for far cheaper than it would cost you to convert a road car....

That's a good idea, but I was looking for something a bit lighter. I already have a 944 road car that I was considering taking on track days, but I'm looking at something different for a road legal track car.

[IanOE]

joe_90 said:

Lots of interesting things about his BMW

Edited by joe_90 on Sunday 3rd April 08:55

That looks like an interesting project, good work. Are those BMW's quite heavy? I will have a look in the classified to see if there are any cars that are already prepared.

Please feel free to add any links to any road legal track cars that anyone thinks may be relevant.

[joe_90]

IanOE said:

That looks like an interesting project, good work. Are those BMW's quite heavy? I will have a look in the classified to see if there are any cars that are already prepared.

Please feel free to add any links to any road legal track cars that anyone thinks may be relevant.

The e36 with all the stuff stripped out is not actually too bad, once stripped the rear suspension went up by 2+ inches!

Edited by joe_90 on Monday 4th April 08:29

[ianlocostzx9r]

I have a seat ibiza gti which I use for trackdays with my son not the fastest on the straight bits but a great chassis for the twisty bits and very cheap we bought ours for less than 1k so lots spare for mods..

[worldwidewebs]

IanOE said:

Ah, thanks for the info. They're not as expensive as I'd thought, although I would need to get someone to fit one for me as I'm rubbish at that sort of thing, so I'd have to factor in the cost of that.

It's actually very easy but if you did want a hand there are plenty of people on MX5Nutz that would give you a hand for unlimited tea and bacon butties!

[IanOE]

worldwidewebs said:

It's actually very easy but if you did want a hand there are plenty of people on MX5Nutz that would give you a hand for unlimited tea and bacon butties!

Ah, thanks for the tip, that sounds like my kind of currency! ideally I'll manage to find a car where someone else has spent the money on buying and installing the roll bar but it gives me another option. There don't seem to be many MX5s for sale with the roll bar already fitted.