Discussion
Early days but I’m thinking of replacing my Mx5 track car with something bigger, primarily because at 6ft 2in I don’t fit comfortably or safely and all the modifications I have done so far have changed the balance between the two rather the fix the underlying problem.
Will be used for about 4 days a year and as it will be driven to the event, I need to be able to insure it so it needs to stay relatively stock. Probably spending no more than £4K tops
Currently thinking about either an E36 M3 or 328. I guess the 328 will cost me £1.5-2K where as the M3 will cost me about £3.2K.
I assume I will then have to replace the dampers, brake pads, fluids, full service and may be a few odds and ends which on the M3 will probably see off another £450.
Any input on how crazy a cheap M3 will be vs. how much better it will be over an aging 328.
Thanks
Will be used for about 4 days a year and as it will be driven to the event, I need to be able to insure it so it needs to stay relatively stock. Probably spending no more than £4K tops
Currently thinking about either an E36 M3 or 328. I guess the 328 will cost me £1.5-2K where as the M3 will cost me about £3.2K.
I assume I will then have to replace the dampers, brake pads, fluids, full service and may be a few odds and ends which on the M3 will probably see off another £450.
Any input on how crazy a cheap M3 will be vs. how much better it will be over an aging 328.
Thanks
Also have a similar decision to make.
M3 pros :
good out of the box
300ish bhp
LSD
good set up
Cons:
will be leggy as feck for that money
a new M3 engine is fortunes (vanos units are expensive aswell)
everything is more expensive
328i pros :
pic one up with 100k miles for £1000-1500
328i engines are cheap to replace if it goes pop
240bhp realisticly/easily achievable (manifold swap etcetc)
cheap parts and M3 bits suchs as brakes and diffs etc can be easily fitted.
Cons :
Most don't have an LSD as standard
Apparently the Standard diff ratio is quite high for use on track ( change diff for lsd )
M3 pros :
good out of the box
300ish bhp
LSD
good set up
Cons:
will be leggy as feck for that money
a new M3 engine is fortunes (vanos units are expensive aswell)
everything is more expensive
328i pros :
pic one up with 100k miles for £1000-1500
328i engines are cheap to replace if it goes pop
240bhp realisticly/easily achievable (manifold swap etcetc)
cheap parts and M3 bits suchs as brakes and diffs etc can be easily fitted.
Cons :
Most don't have an LSD as standard
Apparently the Standard diff ratio is quite high for use on track ( change diff for lsd )
Evening!
I've had a few E36's over the years and 2 year ago I made the jump from a 328 Sport to an M3 (Evo).
I'd say 328 all the way! As someone's said, once stripped out it will be quick enough and once you throw some fresh brakes and suspension at it, it will corner just as quick as an M3 with the same mods.
I can't speak for the M3 3.0 version (as I'm not sure what brakes it uses) but, the difference in running costs between a 328 and an M3 Evo can be scary! Even just replacing the brakes on a road car, there's a big difference in cost. Then there are the vanos issues, although to be fair, it's the Evo's twin Vanos that's the pig, the 3.0 M3s aren't so bad.
328's are cracking cars. I'd have one again as my daily and to tow my track car, but the 328 saloons look crap, hence I'm going to buy a M3 3.0 saloon. (I need 4 doors for my trackday boxes, etc.)
Once you have a well prepped 328, you'll have 80-90% of the M3 for 50% of the money. Definately the way I'd go. More money left for trackdays and petrol!
I've had a few E36's over the years and 2 year ago I made the jump from a 328 Sport to an M3 (Evo).
I'd say 328 all the way! As someone's said, once stripped out it will be quick enough and once you throw some fresh brakes and suspension at it, it will corner just as quick as an M3 with the same mods.
I can't speak for the M3 3.0 version (as I'm not sure what brakes it uses) but, the difference in running costs between a 328 and an M3 Evo can be scary! Even just replacing the brakes on a road car, there's a big difference in cost. Then there are the vanos issues, although to be fair, it's the Evo's twin Vanos that's the pig, the 3.0 M3s aren't so bad.
328's are cracking cars. I'd have one again as my daily and to tow my track car, but the 328 saloons look crap, hence I'm going to buy a M3 3.0 saloon. (I need 4 doors for my trackday boxes, etc.)
Once you have a well prepped 328, you'll have 80-90% of the M3 for 50% of the money. Definately the way I'd go. More money left for trackdays and petrol!
The question is, is the 328 good enough as stock (or light modification). Given insurance costs these day, going mental with a stripped back, track weapon just isn't going to get through insurance and a trailer is a no no.
I'm thinking a stock M3 is easier to deal with than a stripped back 328.
I'm thinking a stock M3 is easier to deal with than a stripped back 328.
Get a quote on both mate! I think that may decide it for you..
E36 M3's are extortionate for what they are, as far as insurance goes!
Out of the box, yes an M3 is head and shoulders above MOST 328's but, if you can find a 328 Sport with the beefier suspension (which all have) and a LSD (which all don't have!) then it'll be a lot of fun for a lot less outlay.
Only you know how many beer tokens you can spare but, Trying to run an M3 on a budget isn't that do-able. A 328 is. You'll need a bit of luck with either.
Remember, you don't have to go full on stripped out trackbus with the 328. They're very capable anyway. If you don't want to throw parts at it though then it's going to boil down to specific examples that you view. There are good and bad of both. A nice 328 with recent suspension will obviously be better than a tired original M3.
I'm stating the obvious now though. Get an insurance quote and if that doesn't decide it get out and view some. They're old cars now, so be ready for a bit of a search. Good luck with it, they really are very good cars.
E36 M3's are extortionate for what they are, as far as insurance goes!
Out of the box, yes an M3 is head and shoulders above MOST 328's but, if you can find a 328 Sport with the beefier suspension (which all have) and a LSD (which all don't have!) then it'll be a lot of fun for a lot less outlay.
Only you know how many beer tokens you can spare but, Trying to run an M3 on a budget isn't that do-able. A 328 is. You'll need a bit of luck with either.
Remember, you don't have to go full on stripped out trackbus with the 328. They're very capable anyway. If you don't want to throw parts at it though then it's going to boil down to specific examples that you view. There are good and bad of both. A nice 328 with recent suspension will obviously be better than a tired original M3.
I'm stating the obvious now though. Get an insurance quote and if that doesn't decide it get out and view some. They're old cars now, so be ready for a bit of a search. Good luck with it, they really are very good cars.
I was recently having just this discussion with myself and decided on the 328.
I plumped for the 328 mainly because whilst doing a bit of research, it quickly became obvious that the E36 M3 was gonna be waaayyyy more expensive to own and mod.
Most of my racing background is on two wheels and if there's something I've come to realise in all my track miles, one thing stands out - people running around in something costing 5 times what you're running around in, aren't have 5 times as much fun.
There's huge incentive at a competitive level to have the best that you can possibly afford, but track days? You're there for the fun, the experience, you're there to put a huge smile on your face . . . and trust me on one thing, when it comes down to it, a modded 328 will do that - who cares if you're giving away a few seconds to that E36 M3? You'll just have more fun chasing it and if you do have the legs on one, for that moment, on that day, on that track, you'll be euphoric!
You'll have far more cash in your wallet and won't be worrying so much if something let's go. For me the decision was quickly a no brainer - the difference in insurance alone was enough!
Anyway, I've got one now - more of that in Readers cars soon (and sorry Wacko
) and in the short time I've driven it, it's evident that:-
1. It's plenty quick enough to have fun in (I'd go as far to say "extremely capable")
2. The ratio's are far too leggy for the track - that diff is a must to change
3. There's plenty of weight to be lost in it.
4. All the bits I've priced up aren't eye-wateringly expensive
So in short, would I prefer a good E36 M3? In an ideal world, of course. Am I in any way disappointed with deciding on the 328? Not one little bit.
It's gonna be a blast!
I plumped for the 328 mainly because whilst doing a bit of research, it quickly became obvious that the E36 M3 was gonna be waaayyyy more expensive to own and mod.
Most of my racing background is on two wheels and if there's something I've come to realise in all my track miles, one thing stands out - people running around in something costing 5 times what you're running around in, aren't have 5 times as much fun.
There's huge incentive at a competitive level to have the best that you can possibly afford, but track days? You're there for the fun, the experience, you're there to put a huge smile on your face . . . and trust me on one thing, when it comes down to it, a modded 328 will do that - who cares if you're giving away a few seconds to that E36 M3? You'll just have more fun chasing it and if you do have the legs on one, for that moment, on that day, on that track, you'll be euphoric!
You'll have far more cash in your wallet and won't be worrying so much if something let's go. For me the decision was quickly a no brainer - the difference in insurance alone was enough!
Anyway, I've got one now - more of that in Readers cars soon (and sorry Wacko
) and in the short time I've driven it, it's evident that:-1. It's plenty quick enough to have fun in (I'd go as far to say "extremely capable")
2. The ratio's are far too leggy for the track - that diff is a must to change
3. There's plenty of weight to be lost in it.
4. All the bits I've priced up aren't eye-wateringly expensive
So in short, would I prefer a good E36 M3? In an ideal world, of course. Am I in any way disappointed with deciding on the 328? Not one little bit.
It's gonna be a blast!
V8mate said:
I've got an E36 track car and, at 6'3", when wearing a helmet, I don't fit.
I have to recline the seat and slide myself forward into a not ideal position.
Not sure if fitting bucket seats would put you any lower, but I wouldn't say that the E36 is 'roomy' height-wise.
Yeh my head with lid on on coupe & stock seats was on the roof also. I have to recline the seat and slide myself forward into a not ideal position.
Not sure if fitting bucket seats would put you any lower, but I wouldn't say that the E36 is 'roomy' height-wise.
1- Saloons are taller than coupes, so more room
2- No sunroof cars= more room
Buckets mounted properly even in coupe there is utterly tons of room, I'm 6ft4 & even in my sunroof car I could wear a top hat, currently un-caged but about to cage it.
Caged cars & tall drivers & sunroofs can be an issue, really need that seat as low as pos but had not issues in prev caged e36, seat as low as pos & was a non sunroof car.
I enjoy both M3 & 328, I've got both, can't really beat the 328 for rwd & reasonable pace for tight budget purchace & running costs.(well ok an e30 325 or an mx5 are similar)
However I tracked a mildly modded 4k M3 for 3 years & it never bit me running costs wise, but I did buy a good un.
A sorted track M3 is a v quick car on track, a sorted 328 is not in the same league, but not shabby either, stripped track 328 with the 325 manifold & m3 lsd is bang on my pals healthy 350z for straight line pace for example, & with stciky rubber vs stock road rubber on the 350z (so not entirely a fair comparison) is a lot quicker over a lap with same standard fairly experienced track drivers.
Can't just look at purchace price, have to look at consumables & the eventual end sale price, decntly sorted M3s are very sought after & I've sold my ones on v easily & both will cost similar to prep for track- bushes, buckets, grp panels, cage, hoses, discs & pads are a tad more for m3 (3.0) but not mega, more for 3.2 discs, however 328 can get by with cheaper race pads, M3 can if you don't beast it, but given the extra weight & pace when running 2 up & going hard on stciky rubber then really needs more decnt stuff- pagid yellow or PFC etc which is a lot more do$h a set.
Some m3 bits are ok price wise, but indeed some are a pain- M3 engine replacement is an expensive worry, 328 easy, & M3 wishbones are a pain vs 328 prices when you need a ball joint.
Edited by iguana on Thursday 14th April 21:45
what is your budget?
I think you are under estimating how much it will cost;
"Currently thinking about either an E36 M3 or 328. I guess the 328 will cost me £1.5-2K where as the M3 will cost me about £3.2K. "
Buying either at that price will require a lot to be spent to bring them up to decent standard for use on tracks.
I think you are under estimating how much it will cost;
"Currently thinking about either an E36 M3 or 328. I guess the 328 will cost me £1.5-2K where as the M3 will cost me about £3.2K. "
Buying either at that price will require a lot to be spent to bring them up to decent standard for use on tracks.
A road i've just decided to go down myself!
i've jsut bought a 328 M3 replica for £1050 and other than a little of the classic arch rust its very solid. Something i would say is people arnt paying the asking prices at the moment so down pay too much for one. This one started priced at £1600 and the guy i got it from only bought it a couple of months before i took it from him due to redundency.
Regarding insurance, i'm 23 and my NCB is on my road car. this is going to be a track car only which will be road legal so i can drive to/from my track days like you. I called Adrian flux last night expecting to get a silly price for insurance as the best i had found online was around £1400.
Suprisingly i was quoted £680 for a fully track modified car including cage etc and all mods insured on a TPFT basis with 1500mile allowance which i think should be enough! The nice thing is i will have the flexibility to take it for a spin around the block after making any changes before going on any trackdays.
I'm yet to try this one out around the track but i'm expecting it to hold its own with no problem and once fully kitted should be a real weapon. I hope it wont disappoint as i've wanted one for the last few years!
Best of luck with what every you decide to do
i've jsut bought a 328 M3 replica for £1050 and other than a little of the classic arch rust its very solid. Something i would say is people arnt paying the asking prices at the moment so down pay too much for one. This one started priced at £1600 and the guy i got it from only bought it a couple of months before i took it from him due to redundency.
Regarding insurance, i'm 23 and my NCB is on my road car. this is going to be a track car only which will be road legal so i can drive to/from my track days like you. I called Adrian flux last night expecting to get a silly price for insurance as the best i had found online was around £1400.
Suprisingly i was quoted £680 for a fully track modified car including cage etc and all mods insured on a TPFT basis with 1500mile allowance which i think should be enough! The nice thing is i will have the flexibility to take it for a spin around the block after making any changes before going on any trackdays.
I'm yet to try this one out around the track but i'm expecting it to hold its own with no problem and once fully kitted should be a real weapon. I hope it wont disappoint as i've wanted one for the last few years!
Best of luck with what every you decide to do
One advantage the 328 has is less weight, and less tendency to understeer
If you're a Northloop member - check out Craig's build
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Northloop/index.php?sho...
Very nicely put together. Sounds great as well.
If you're a Northloop member - check out Craig's build
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Northloop/index.php?sho...
Very nicely put together. Sounds great as well.
rallycross said:
what is your budget?
I think you are under estimating how much it will cost
Buying either at that price will require a lot to be spent to bring them up to decent standard for use on tracks.
To be clear, I'm not looking to build an all out "track car", the car won't get enough used to justify the build and I would just buy a pre-built version if I was going down that route. I think you are under estimating how much it will cost
Buying either at that price will require a lot to be spent to bring them up to decent standard for use on tracks.
What I'm looking for is a well-sorted road car that can hold it's own on the track and that won't bankrupt me if I stuff it into the gravel.
Having looked at the insurance I am now thinking maybe Porsche 944 is a more sensible option as it will save me near £700 a year in insurance.
Agree though that M3 parts aren’t cheap but I would do a serious chunk of the spannering myself.
Spoke to 2 guys today that have a track prepped 328i .... they were having a whale of a time, even with a 170k mile engine it still pulled really well.
Diff ratio was fine for a big track ..... don't see the need to lower the diff ratio like people suggest.
They certainly go sideways well even without an LSD.
this has made my mind up for good........ i'm gettin a straight six BM next for a track project.
Diff ratio was fine for a big track ..... don't see the need to lower the diff ratio like people suggest.
They certainly go sideways well even without an LSD.
this has made my mind up for good........ i'm gettin a straight six BM next for a track project.
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