Audi S3 as a track day car?
Discussion
I contributed to a threaad about an RX8 as a track day car a short while ago but I thought I'd see what people thought about this idea? I am vaguely thinking of a track car. I previously had a standard 944 Turbo which I used for the occasional fun trip out on the roads & the occasional track day with instruction (3-4 days a year)and I'd like something for a similar use. The RX8 is still a possibility but I'm worried about engine longevity!
The car has to be road legal as I don't want to faff about with trailers & must be suitable for the ocassional commute (I have a an A4 TDi for most days but would use the car once in a while for a more fun journey). It must be cheap (ish) & reliable (ish) (subject to the track day use, I know). My choice would probably for a fairly standard car although I'd be prepared to uprate brakes & dampers. I'm a long way from being a driving god so i want something that ian't too edgy (so Elises are out) & I don't want a convertible so no MX5s!
Given all this, & the possibility of spending say £3K it seems that ar a fair few early S3s about that could fit the bill. Any views, any one experience of this car for the use I'm suggesting?
The car has to be road legal as I don't want to faff about with trailers & must be suitable for the ocassional commute (I have a an A4 TDi for most days but would use the car once in a while for a more fun journey). It must be cheap (ish) & reliable (ish) (subject to the track day use, I know). My choice would probably for a fairly standard car although I'd be prepared to uprate brakes & dampers. I'm a long way from being a driving god so i want something that ian't too edgy (so Elises are out) & I don't want a convertible so no MX5s!
Given all this, & the possibility of spending say £3K it seems that ar a fair few early S3s about that could fit the bill. Any views, any one experience of this car for the use I'm suggesting?
Funny this thread came up as I too have been thinking about starting a S3 as a track project too.
Been looking into it. It can be stripped down to around 1000kg. The 4WD (HALDEX) system is the Achilles heal of thee cars.
The lowest prices I have seen seem to be around the £3500+ I think this was for the 180bhp model.
Been looking into it. It can be stripped down to around 1000kg. The 4WD (HALDEX) system is the Achilles heal of thee cars.
The lowest prices I have seen seem to be around the £3500+ I think this was for the 180bhp model.
Dogmeat said:
Funny this thread came up as I too have been thinking about starting a S3 as a track project too.
Been looking into it. It can be stripped down to around [b]1000kg[/b[. The 4WD (HALDEX) system is the Achilles heal of thee cars.
The lowest prices I have seen seem to be around the £3500+ I think this was for the 180bhp model.
Really?Been looking into it. It can be stripped down to around [b]1000kg[/b[. The 4WD (HALDEX) system is the Achilles heal of thee cars.
The lowest prices I have seen seem to be around the £3500+ I think this was for the 180bhp model.
TBH, I'd be very surprised if an s3 got close to that.
A mate of mine (and a ph'er - istoo) has an Audi 90 quattro (torsen, not haldex). If you're looking for a cheap 4x4 Audi as a track slag you could do an awful lot worse.
Keeping to the 4x4 theme, '90's Impreza Turbo? They're around 1200kg and ther are endless tuning/tweaking options. Very adjustable, very easy to drive to eight or nine tenths.
I reckon an e376 would be a gerat bet, a 325 or 328 would be a great basis for a cheap road and track tart.
I have an S3 which I converted to do trackdays and Nurburgring trips. Early S3's from 99 to 2001 are 210 bhp, the later ones are 225. Mine is chipped , bigger down pipe, 3" exhaust, front mount intercooler, large oil cooler (vital) coilivers, haldex controller, uprated anti roll bars and 6 pot tarox brakes. All the trim is still in situ.
I would say getting on down to 1000kg would take some serious doing. The weight of each car is on a sticker in the boot an vary depending on spec, i.e ac, heated seats etc. Mine is I think 1410kg.
Changing the seats would make a big difference to weight as they weigh about 40 kg. You can only just lift them. You would then do normal things like carpet, sound proofing, air con, plastic glass etc. I have not gone down this route as I use the car alot on the road.
On track I use 18" wheels with either Dunlop formula r's or second hand slicks.
I really enjoy the car on track but it is heavy. Brakes take a real pounding and the tyres wear out quick. However, running about 2.5' negative camber on the front and 2 on the rear has really helped tyre wear as the shoulders had a tendency to wear out.
With my suspension set up and haldex controller, it is quite lively at the back end particularly if you are on light throttle going into a corner. The back end will slide nicely. It will not power oversteer like may be a impreza with adjustable diffs, but it is still good fun.There are probably better track cars out there but it is nice to have something a bit different and there are plenty of bits available for them. Plus, if you did get the weight down to say just over 1000kg, with around 270bhp, it will make a quick track car coupled with potential to attack the ring
Mike
Apex Trackdays
I would say getting on down to 1000kg would take some serious doing. The weight of each car is on a sticker in the boot an vary depending on spec, i.e ac, heated seats etc. Mine is I think 1410kg.
Changing the seats would make a big difference to weight as they weigh about 40 kg. You can only just lift them. You would then do normal things like carpet, sound proofing, air con, plastic glass etc. I have not gone down this route as I use the car alot on the road.
On track I use 18" wheels with either Dunlop formula r's or second hand slicks.
I really enjoy the car on track but it is heavy. Brakes take a real pounding and the tyres wear out quick. However, running about 2.5' negative camber on the front and 2 on the rear has really helped tyre wear as the shoulders had a tendency to wear out.
With my suspension set up and haldex controller, it is quite lively at the back end particularly if you are on light throttle going into a corner. The back end will slide nicely. It will not power oversteer like may be a impreza with adjustable diffs, but it is still good fun.There are probably better track cars out there but it is nice to have something a bit different and there are plenty of bits available for them. Plus, if you did get the weight down to say just over 1000kg, with around 270bhp, it will make a quick track car coupled with potential to attack the ring
Mike
Apex Trackdays
I have the same problem with choosing my track car. I've almost bought E36 328 but I would really want to get something
4wd. I know that bmer is a cheaper option but really, why it is so popular here? Are these cars handling so well?
I've been looking at S3 and a TT 225. I strictly want something that will not be road legal. Everything that isn't needed
will be taken out.
If we look at weight, both E36 and S3 are around 1,4Ton but S3 can be easily tuned to 280bhp where E36 can't.
If I get bored with E36's power, all I can do is swap M3 engine, which isn't very cheap. I've been reading a lot here in last few weeks
but all I can find is buy 328 or buy mx5. That's a bit boring, isn't it?
4wd. I know that bmer is a cheaper option but really, why it is so popular here? Are these cars handling so well?
I've been looking at S3 and a TT 225. I strictly want something that will not be road legal. Everything that isn't needed
will be taken out.
If we look at weight, both E36 and S3 are around 1,4Ton but S3 can be easily tuned to 280bhp where E36 can't.
If I get bored with E36's power, all I can do is swap M3 engine, which isn't very cheap. I've been reading a lot here in last few weeks
but all I can find is buy 328 or buy mx5. That's a bit boring, isn't it?
slepy said:
I am thinking about classic impreza as well but how are the costs when something goes wrong?
A bit afraid that impreza with lets say 70k miles might need a engine rebuild which will not be cheap?
Also should I be looking at classic wrx or classic sti?
A rebuild would be no more than one on an S3 and they are just as likely to require one.A bit afraid that impreza with lets say 70k miles might need a engine rebuild which will not be cheap?
Also should I be looking at classic wrx or classic sti?
Plenty of imprezas do 150k+ miles without needing a rebuild, mine is on 75k miles and has never needed one, i have seen lots of vag 1.8t`s requiring rebuilds.
An sti is ideally what you would want.
Oops meant to sat 210 not 180. (got mixed up with the early TT.
I have been trying to find the build thread of a S3 on the weighbridge, im 100% it read out 1040kg.
The new S3 here is down the 1100s. http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/tsn-motor-news/9360...
I have been trying to find the build thread of a S3 on the weighbridge, im 100% it read out 1040kg.
The new S3 here is down the 1100s. http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/tsn-motor-news/9360...
Dogmeat said:
Oops meant to sat 210 not 180. (got mixed up with the early TT.
I have been trying to find the build thread of a S3 on the weighbridge, im 100% it read out 1040kg.
The new S3 here is down the 1100s. http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/tsn-motor-news/9360...
Obviously a lot of money and work has gone into that S3 as they've replaced all the body panels with aluminium or fibreglass ones hence the weight of 1130kg. The mk1 S3 has a kerb weight of over 1400kg, the mk2 closer to 1500kg. Realistically even when stripping one I don't think your going to get more than 200kg out unless you spend a lot of time and money.I have been trying to find the build thread of a S3 on the weighbridge, im 100% it read out 1040kg.
The new S3 here is down the 1100s. http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/tsn-motor-news/9360...
I've started tracking a Leon Cupra R which has the S3/225 TT drivetrain but without the Haldex 4WD. It puts down the power well and apart from in the wet theres probably no circumstances I'd want the Haldex 4WD given the increase in weight. Worth considering one as its 50kg lighter than the S3 and you'll get one at least a couple of years newer than an S3 for the same money. Also comes with Brembo front disks and calipers which the S3 doesn't have.
I have just bought a TT 225, I wanted a car that I could use daily but them occasionally take on track. I was recommended the S3 (about 10 years old) but I wanted something that looks a bit newer so I started looking at TT's. It took a while to find a good one, but it was worth it, its a great drive, I have had a fast road geo set up done on it and the back end feels really planted! I haven't taken it on track yet, but I am really looking forward to it!
Thanks for all the input, all very useful. I expected the "...go for a BMW" responses but I guess tnat if you are an "audi person" (& I am - A4 quattro & a Ur quattro)you tend not to be a "BMW person", no matter what the logic says LOL.
I had thought about the TT but I'd assumed that I couldn't get one for the same (cheap) money. Seat Cupras were also on the radar but must admit I hadn't thought of an Imprezza, largly because I fancied something a little bit different but something that still has ggood availability of parts, advice etc. As I said, I'm also an "audi person". There is also the very vague dream that whatever car I buy also has to be potentially capable of turning in to a race car later that I can use in one of the CSCC race series and that means the "Future Classics" series for Pre 1990 cars or the "Deutsche Marque" series for German cars of any age.
I had thought about the TT but I'd assumed that I couldn't get one for the same (cheap) money. Seat Cupras were also on the radar but must admit I hadn't thought of an Imprezza, largly because I fancied something a little bit different but something that still has ggood availability of parts, advice etc. As I said, I'm also an "audi person". There is also the very vague dream that whatever car I buy also has to be potentially capable of turning in to a race car later that I can use in one of the CSCC race series and that means the "Future Classics" series for Pre 1990 cars or the "Deutsche Marque" series for German cars of any age.
I've road driven a few hot TTs & tracked a pals modded S3, Porsche brakes, decent coilovers, good power etc but still full fat road trim.
All pretty quick, but v easy to drive hard & a pretty pretty numb driving experience devoid of any spark, all to be expected of a fwd biased & heavy shopping car I guess, was fun on road but on track was just not my thing, but has to be said with good tyres are very quick on wet track days.
All pretty quick, but v easy to drive hard & a pretty pretty numb driving experience devoid of any spark, all to be expected of a fwd biased & heavy shopping car I guess, was fun on road but on track was just not my thing, but has to be said with good tyres are very quick on wet track days.
Well I really like the sound of 8Pot's car spec, but I'm sure that spec is ouit of my budget; its something to aspire to, though.
As for the comment about high grip limits in a track day toy, I take the point but I guess I'm not solely looking for a track day toy. I'd like a car that is fun & can be used on track days but it won't solely be used for that purpose; it'll be used on the road for a commute occasionally & on cross country fun trips when the mood takes me. It would be an all rounder but likely to be on tack only 3-4 times a year.
As for the comment about high grip limits in a track day toy, I take the point but I guess I'm not solely looking for a track day toy. I'd like a car that is fun & can be used on track days but it won't solely be used for that purpose; it'll be used on the road for a commute occasionally & on cross country fun trips when the mood takes me. It would be an all rounder but likely to be on tack only 3-4 times a year.
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