Salary overpayment - what are my options?
Discussion
Folks...
Apologies in advance for seeking advice however having trawled the net and spoken to a couple of friends, I'm not much forward so hopefully some of the knowledgable people of Pistonheads will be able to advise.
Up until the 25th of March this year I was working for a company and being paid on a monthly basis on the last Friday of the month. Upon leaving the company I set up my own business, however still work for my original company on a freelance/advisory basis. I have also since changed address.
On the 28th of April I was paid a sum of money into my account from this company however as I had changed address, I had no wage slip issued despite the fact my new address we provided upon terminating my full time employment. At first I assumed that the payment was for several invoices I had subsequently submitted for freelance work however the figures did not tally up.
On the 29th I contacted their accounts department to question the ammount, pointing out the sum paid did not tally up to the invoices I ahd submitted and was informed that the sum paid was my final monthly wage along with unused holiday entitlement. As I was under the impression I was paid a month in arrears, plus having ahd this confirmed by their accounts department, I thought nothing nmore of it.
On Friday 29th May I received a telephone call from the company payroll department informing me they had paid me on the 28th of April in error, a figure of around £1,200 after tax was deducted. I was then told to write a cheque for the ammount and return it to them immediately. I declined (plus was in the car so not the best time to discuss)
I checked my bank statement and found they company had also paid me that day however had immediately taken it out of my account again. So, for the past two months it would seem I have still been on the payroll and have received two monthly wages in error... the first on the 28th April which I assumed was my final pay, as confirmed by accounts and the second, they took straight back out again.
As it stands, I have now been asked to pay back the £1,200 overpayment by way of a personal cheque or can pay half back followed by the second half next month. To rub salt in the wound, despite the fact the lady from Payroll was quick to inform me the Accounts was nothing to do with them, they have now refused to pay ANY of my ten outstanding invoices until they receive their money back, four of which are now overdue.
So not only has somebody made a mistake and only now realised, but they are now demmanding the money back as a matter of priority and are blocking all payments until I do. So they are now penalising me for their mistake... not only do I have to pay the £1,200 back but they're holding back other payments, despite it being a totally different department.
So, I need to know what my best move it from here... do I offer to pay it back at say £10 a month? Do I suggest that they deduct the ammount to be repaid from the sum total of the invoices I have submitted, thus I will receive very little income over the next few weeks however won't have to pay back £1,200 in one or two lump sums or do I do as a friend has said and take them to the cleaners, decline to pay it back as it was their fault and tehn bill them for every minute of my time for the inconvenience and hassle?
Sorry to twitter on, however it's a rather delicate situation given I still carry out contract work for the company however I must say it's left a very sour taste in my mouth especially given their attitude and the fact they are now holding me to ransome... basically, pay it back or we won't pay any invoices that you have submitted (as said, four are now overdue) which is rediculous as I ahve bills to pay and kids to feed.
Advice would be greatly appreciated folks. I'm out my deapth here and unsure of where I stand legally etc.
Best regards
Apologies in advance for seeking advice however having trawled the net and spoken to a couple of friends, I'm not much forward so hopefully some of the knowledgable people of Pistonheads will be able to advise.
Up until the 25th of March this year I was working for a company and being paid on a monthly basis on the last Friday of the month. Upon leaving the company I set up my own business, however still work for my original company on a freelance/advisory basis. I have also since changed address.
On the 28th of April I was paid a sum of money into my account from this company however as I had changed address, I had no wage slip issued despite the fact my new address we provided upon terminating my full time employment. At first I assumed that the payment was for several invoices I had subsequently submitted for freelance work however the figures did not tally up.
On the 29th I contacted their accounts department to question the ammount, pointing out the sum paid did not tally up to the invoices I ahd submitted and was informed that the sum paid was my final monthly wage along with unused holiday entitlement. As I was under the impression I was paid a month in arrears, plus having ahd this confirmed by their accounts department, I thought nothing nmore of it.
On Friday 29th May I received a telephone call from the company payroll department informing me they had paid me on the 28th of April in error, a figure of around £1,200 after tax was deducted. I was then told to write a cheque for the ammount and return it to them immediately. I declined (plus was in the car so not the best time to discuss)
I checked my bank statement and found they company had also paid me that day however had immediately taken it out of my account again. So, for the past two months it would seem I have still been on the payroll and have received two monthly wages in error... the first on the 28th April which I assumed was my final pay, as confirmed by accounts and the second, they took straight back out again.
As it stands, I have now been asked to pay back the £1,200 overpayment by way of a personal cheque or can pay half back followed by the second half next month. To rub salt in the wound, despite the fact the lady from Payroll was quick to inform me the Accounts was nothing to do with them, they have now refused to pay ANY of my ten outstanding invoices until they receive their money back, four of which are now overdue.
So not only has somebody made a mistake and only now realised, but they are now demmanding the money back as a matter of priority and are blocking all payments until I do. So they are now penalising me for their mistake... not only do I have to pay the £1,200 back but they're holding back other payments, despite it being a totally different department.
So, I need to know what my best move it from here... do I offer to pay it back at say £10 a month? Do I suggest that they deduct the ammount to be repaid from the sum total of the invoices I have submitted, thus I will receive very little income over the next few weeks however won't have to pay back £1,200 in one or two lump sums or do I do as a friend has said and take them to the cleaners, decline to pay it back as it was their fault and tehn bill them for every minute of my time for the inconvenience and hassle?
Sorry to twitter on, however it's a rather delicate situation given I still carry out contract work for the company however I must say it's left a very sour taste in my mouth especially given their attitude and the fact they are now holding me to ransome... basically, pay it back or we won't pay any invoices that you have submitted (as said, four are now overdue) which is rediculous as I ahve bills to pay and kids to feed.
Advice would be greatly appreciated folks. I'm out my deapth here and unsure of where I stand legally etc.
Best regards
AIUI, if they have overpaid you, they can demand it back. If they owe you money, then it becomes pretty simple to offset one against the other.
Surely you don't want to upset a major customer?
Also, not too many places pay a whole calendar month in arrears these days. Most big companies pay inclusive up to the pay day, with a staggered period for overtime, etc.
Surely you don't want to upset a major customer?
Also, not too many places pay a whole calendar month in arrears these days. Most big companies pay inclusive up to the pay day, with a staggered period for overtime, etc.
Edited by Rollcage on Wednesday 1st June 18:55
You spent it, you pay it back.
You could ask them to offset it against your invoices, but really letting you pay it back in two instalments seems reasonable.
It would be RIDICULOUS for you to expect to keep that money when you know it is not yours to keep, particularly if you still rely on them for consultancy work - don't bite the hand that feeds etc.
You could ask them to offset it against your invoices, but really letting you pay it back in two instalments seems reasonable.
It would be RIDICULOUS for you to expect to keep that money when you know it is not yours to keep, particularly if you still rely on them for consultancy work - don't bite the hand that feeds etc.
If this was the other way round and you had paid them in error then you would expect them to pay it back, it's no different the other way round both morally and legally. Even if they weren't a customer the only thing to do would be to pay it back asap, since they are it's even more important that you don't make a fuss and pay it back.
Rollcage said:
AIUI, if they have overpaid you, they can demand it back. If they owe you money, then it becomes pretty simple to offset one against the other.
Surely you don't want to upset a major customer?
Also, not too many places pay a whole calendar month in arrears these days. Most big companies pay inclusive up to the pay day, with a staggered period for overtime, etc.
Sorry chap, forgot to add that yes, you're correct as they don't pay in arrears however my belief they did plus having the ammount confirmed as my final wage (inc holidays) by a member of the accounts department resulted in me thinking all was perfectly normal and above board. Surely you don't want to upset a major customer?
Also, not too many places pay a whole calendar month in arrears these days. Most big companies pay inclusive up to the pay day, with a staggered period for overtime, etc.
Edited by Rollcage on Wednesday 1st June 18:55
Granted yes, I have no intention nor desire to upset a significant customer however their attitude to the situation seems very poor, perhaps they know they have me over a barrel by freezing all overdue and future invoiced ammounts. Yes I appreciate it must be paid back, however the money has been used and with no money coming in from them until it is... it's a catch 22 situation.
At the minimum I'd expect them to pay me what I am now owed plus fast-track a couple of invoices that I have submitted and are awaiting payment, then I'll repay the ammount or as has been said, use these outstanding invoices to basically cancel off the debt although I feel an apology or a goodwill gesture may have left me with a less sour taste in my mouth.
I appreciate the input
Agrilla said:
It would be RIDICULOUS for you to expect to keep that money when you know it is not yours to keep, particularly if you still rely on them for consultancy work - don't bite the hand that feeds etc.
I'm aware of this, but at the momment I'm just exploring the options available to me. On another note, regarding the tax that has been paid on the overpayment... can anybody clarify what happens in that respect and is this something I should bear in mind when it comes to the tax returns? I'm still a bit wet behind the ears having only been self employed for a couple of months so as you can probably appreciate, this sort of situation is one I'd have rather avoided!
regards
Davie said:
I'm aware of this, but at the momment I'm just exploring the options available to me.
On another note, regarding the tax that has been paid on the overpayment... can anybody clarify what happens in that respect and is this something I should bear in mind when it comes to the tax returns? I'm still a bit wet behind the ears having only been self employed for a couple of months so as you can probably appreciate, this sort of situation is one I'd have rather avoided!
regards
You have no options. The company are being generous in letting you pay it back in two installments, they can get it in one. The tax doesn't exist the payment will have been deleted from the payroll system. The best you can hope for is that they offset it against any invoices.On another note, regarding the tax that has been paid on the overpayment... can anybody clarify what happens in that respect and is this something I should bear in mind when it comes to the tax returns? I'm still a bit wet behind the ears having only been self employed for a couple of months so as you can probably appreciate, this sort of situation is one I'd have rather avoided!
regards
Eric Mc said:
If you are satisfied that they genuinely overpaid you - and you seem to be - then legally, you MUST repay it. If you keep it, you will be committing theft.
This.It's not your money. Give it back.
And why should they pay your invoices when you are effectively refusing to return money which is theirs?
It's not yours. Return it.
£10 a month
Davie said:
...however the figures did not tally up.
Right, so you buried your head in the sand and hoped it would sort itself out.Davie said:
...I thought nothing nmore of it.
Indeed.Davie said:
I was then told to write a cheque for the ammount and return it to them immediately. I declined (plus was in the car so not the best time to discuss) .
What a surprise!Davei said:
As it stands, I have now been asked to pay back the £1,200 overpayment by way of a personal cheque or can pay half back followed by the second half next month. To rub salt in the wound, despite the fact the lady from Payroll was quick to inform me the Accounts was nothing to do with them, they have now refused to pay ANY of my ten outstanding invoices until they receive their money back, four of which are now overdue.
Again... why are you surprised?Davie said:
So they are now penalising me for their mistake...
Wrong. Davie said:
So, I need to know what my best move it from here... do I offer to pay it back at say £10 a month? Do I suggest that they deduct the ammount to be repaid from the sum total of the invoices I have submitted, thus I will receive very little income over the next few weeks however won't have to pay back £1,200 in one or two lump sums or do I do as a friend has said and take them to the cleaners, decline to pay it back as it was their fault and tehn bill them for every minute of my time for the inconvenience and hassle?
Davie said:
Sorry to twitter on, however it's a rather delicate situation...
Too right it is. Best hope the payroll manager isn't pals with your direct report 
Alternatively, offer to pay it back at £10 a month and see how long you last.Davie said:
Advice would be greatly appreciated folks. I'm out my deapth here and unsure of where I stand legally etc.
Here's some (free) advice:Withholding money that doesn't rightfully belong to you is theft. If you want to keep your job and avoid a reputation as a thief, give the money back pronto and don't be a dick about it.
You are a Contractor and therefore disposable (most likely without too much hesitation given the picture you've just painted of yourself). Use your brain
Laird said:
Davie said:
...however the figures did not tally up.
Right, so you buried your head in the sand and hoped it would sort itself out.Davie said:
...I thought nothing nmore of it.
Indeed.Davie said:
I was then told to write a cheque for the ammount and return it to them immediately. I declined (plus was in the car so not the best time to discuss) .
What a surprise!Davei said:
As it stands, I have now been asked to pay back the £1,200 overpayment by way of a personal cheque or can pay half back followed by the second half next month. To rub salt in the wound, despite the fact the lady from Payroll was quick to inform me the Accounts was nothing to do with them, they have now refused to pay ANY of my ten outstanding invoices until they receive their money back, four of which are now overdue.
Again... why are you surprised?Davie said:
So they are now penalising me for their mistake...
Wrong. Davie said:
So, I need to know what my best move it from here... do I offer to pay it back at say £10 a month? Do I suggest that they deduct the ammount to be repaid from the sum total of the invoices I have submitted, thus I will receive very little income over the next few weeks however won't have to pay back £1,200 in one or two lump sums or do I do as a friend has said and take them to the cleaners, decline to pay it back as it was their fault and tehn bill them for every minute of my time for the inconvenience and hassle?
Davie said:
Sorry to twitter on, however it's a rather delicate situation...
Too right it is. Best hope the payroll manager isn't pals with your direct report Alternatively, offer to pay it back at £10 a month and see how long you last.Davie said:
Advice would be greatly appreciated folks. I'm out my deapth here and unsure of where I stand legally etc.
Here's some (free) advice:Withholding money that doesn't rightfully belong to you is theft. If you want to keep your job and avoid a reputation as a thief, give the money back pronto and don't be a dick about it.
You are a Contractor and therefore disposable (most likely without too much hesitation given the picture you've just painted of yourself). Use your brain
I would also question your status as true self employed contract. What is the fundamental difference between what you are doing now as a contractor compared to when you were a PAYE employee?
HMRC are not impressed when someone leaves a PAYE engagement and immediately returns to the same "employer" on a self-employed basis.
HMRC are not impressed when someone leaves a PAYE engagement and immediately returns to the same "employer" on a self-employed basis.
Laird said:
Davie said:
...however the figures did not tally up.
Right, so you buried your head in the sand and hoped it would sort itself out.But if he contacted them to say it looked wrong and they insisted they were right, then they should offer to take it out of his ongoing invoices.
grumbledoak said:
But if he contacted them to say it looked wrong and they insisted they were right, then they should offer to take it out of his ongoing invoices.
I'd suggest that if he'd queried it and they'd insisted it was correct that they should live with their mistake? Legally it's rather complicated by that turn of events, but I can't see that it is necessarily theft?paulrockliffe said:
grumbledoak said:
But if he contacted them to say it looked wrong and they insisted they were right, then they should offer to take it out of his ongoing invoices.
I'd suggest that if he'd queried it and they'd insisted it was correct that they should live with their mistake? Legally it's rather complicated by that turn of events, but I can't see that it is necessarily theft?The impression I got from his rather rambling posting was that he was not disputing the figures.
Whether he is or isn't, he has gone about delaing with this entirely the wrong way.
His plan should now be -
Get the figures checked
Ascertain the level of the overpayment (if any)
Pay it back - if appropriate
If he alsready agreed the overpayment amount and he is still refusing to repay it - the law says he is committing a theft.
Playing silly buggers is not an option.
I'm working on a contract for a large public sector payroll agency. When they have instances of overpayment the employee comes to an agreement on a level of repayment to settle the debt over a period of months.
In your situation, once you've verified the precise amount they've overpaid you, I'd try to come to an agreement to offset it against your outstanding invoices.
In your situation, once you've verified the precise amount they've overpaid you, I'd try to come to an agreement to offset it against your outstanding invoices.
Eric Mc said:
paulrockliffe said:
grumbledoak said:
But if he contacted them to say it looked wrong and they insisted they were right, then they should offer to take it out of his ongoing invoices.
I'd suggest that if he'd queried it and they'd insisted it was correct that they should live with their mistake? Legally it's rather complicated by that turn of events, but I can't see that it is necessarily theft?The impression I got from his rather rambling posting was that he was not disputing the figures.
Whether he is or isn't, he has gone about delaing with this entirely the wrong way.
His plan should now be -
Get the figures checked
Ascertain the level of the overpayment (if any)
Pay it back - if appropriate
If he alsready agreed the overpayment amount and he is still refusing to repay it - the law says he is committing a theft.
Playing silly buggers is not an option.
ker if next time I saw you you insisted I owe you a pint. I certainly haven't stolen a pint from you. Does that make sense?In this case, he'd been overpaid, been told he's not been overpaid, so he's spent the money. I'd expect repayment to be on my terms if that was me, as I've only spent their money because they told me it was mine. I'm sure the legalities are a lot more complicated than, "It's theft."
Interesting.
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