Discussion
Depends on the precise circumstances.
I have seen this several times.
When auditing a Local Authority. we spotted a teacher who had been paid twice every month for eight months. She repaid the amount by agreement over three years.
Found an engineer in similar circumstances paid twice a month for for four months. He resigned and went elsewhere. The firm decided not to pursue.
Legally if the amount is such that a reasonable man, defined in law, as the man on a Clapham Omnibus, would have realised he was being overpaid, then the employer would be able to seek recovery.
If it was a question of a grading increase or an amount that the reasonable man light not have noticed then the firm would probably struggle to recover the money.
Question is how much do you owe and do you want to continue working there?
I have seen this several times.
When auditing a Local Authority. we spotted a teacher who had been paid twice every month for eight months. She repaid the amount by agreement over three years.
Found an engineer in similar circumstances paid twice a month for for four months. He resigned and went elsewhere. The firm decided not to pursue.
Legally if the amount is such that a reasonable man, defined in law, as the man on a Clapham Omnibus, would have realised he was being overpaid, then the employer would be able to seek recovery.
If it was a question of a grading increase or an amount that the reasonable man light not have noticed then the firm would probably struggle to recover the money.
Question is how much do you owe and do you want to continue working there?
It is up to an individual to monitor his/her pay and advise their employer if there are any discrepancies. There will be guidelines on this in your contract/terms of employment.
I would suggest that you will have to pay it back, but legally they are not allowed to take more than a certain amount each month - 4 days pay I believe. This may be different depending on which company it is.
I stand by to be corrected on this, but that's how it works with my employer.
I would suggest that you will have to pay it back, but legally they are not allowed to take more than a certain amount each month - 4 days pay I believe. This may be different depending on which company it is.
I stand by to be corrected on this, but that's how it works with my employer.
Steffan said:
Depends on the precise circumstances.
I have seen this several times.
When auditing a Local Authority. we spotted a teacher who had been paid twice every month for eight months. She repaid the amount by agreement over three years.
Found an engineer in similar circumstances paid twice a month for for four months. He resigned and went elsewhere. The firm decided not to pursue.
Legally if the amount is such that a reasonable man, defined in law, as the man on a Clapham Omnibus, would have realised he was being overpaid, then the employer would be able to seek recovery.
If it was a question of a grading increase or an amount that the reasonable man light not have noticed then the firm would probably struggle to recover the money.
Question is how much do you owe and do you want to continue working there?
^ This.I have seen this several times.
When auditing a Local Authority. we spotted a teacher who had been paid twice every month for eight months. She repaid the amount by agreement over three years.
Found an engineer in similar circumstances paid twice a month for for four months. He resigned and went elsewhere. The firm decided not to pursue.
Legally if the amount is such that a reasonable man, defined in law, as the man on a Clapham Omnibus, would have realised he was being overpaid, then the employer would be able to seek recovery.
If it was a question of a grading increase or an amount that the reasonable man light not have noticed then the firm would probably struggle to recover the money.
Question is how much do you owe and do you want to continue working there?
thanks for above
having now seen the figures I was also underpaid for a number of years prior to being overpaid so I don't believe a 'reasonable' person would have spotted either. As the overpayment was relatively small but was for four years it is now a significant sum. I have also incurred other costs in terms of tax planning which I would not have done except for overpayment. So as you can imagine I do not think it appropriate that I repay full amount if that is what the law eventually decrees I do.
having now seen the figures I was also underpaid for a number of years prior to being overpaid so I don't believe a 'reasonable' person would have spotted either. As the overpayment was relatively small but was for four years it is now a significant sum. I have also incurred other costs in terms of tax planning which I would not have done except for overpayment. So as you can imagine I do not think it appropriate that I repay full amount if that is what the law eventually decrees I do.
hodgre said:
thanks for above
having now seen the figures I was also underpaid for a number of years prior to being overpaid so I don't believe a 'reasonable' person would have spotted either. As the overpayment was relatively small but was for four years it is now a significant sum. I have also incurred other costs in terms of tax planning which I would not have done except for overpayment. So as you can imagine I do not think it appropriate that I repay full amount if that is what the law eventually decrees I do.
You need the advice of a competent practicing Chartered Accountant. EricM is such a man and on Pistonheads. I am retired: you need serious professional advice.having now seen the figures I was also underpaid for a number of years prior to being overpaid so I don't believe a 'reasonable' person would have spotted either. As the overpayment was relatively small but was for four years it is now a significant sum. I have also incurred other costs in terms of tax planning which I would not have done except for overpayment. So as you can imagine I do not think it appropriate that I repay full amount if that is what the law eventually decrees I do.
You need to balance the cost of repayment against your long term career.
If the amount is significant your employer may not easily let this go.
Good luck.
First, from now on you'll be paid the right amount.
Second, about the overpayment, your concern is whether it can be claimed back. In short, the answer is yes. However, provided you can demonstrate that
(a) you were not aware that you were being overpaid and no reason to suspect otherwise, and
(b) there has been "a change in position" (a legal term) because you really believed you were being paid the right amount and arranged your financial spending/savings accordingly,
you have a good chance of winning a legal argument that you do not have the means of paying back the overpaid amount. Note that you have to be really honest about this otherwise you'll be committing a criminal offence.
If you had some idea that you were being overpaid and did not take steps to correct the situation, you could be in deep poo.
Regarding paying back the amount, a reasonable and usually winable argument is to offer to pay back the whole amount over the same period that it has been wrongly paid to you.
Don't forget that you have paid income tax on the wrong amount too and any overpaid tax can be claimed back from HMRC.
R.
Second, about the overpayment, your concern is whether it can be claimed back. In short, the answer is yes. However, provided you can demonstrate that
(a) you were not aware that you were being overpaid and no reason to suspect otherwise, and
(b) there has been "a change in position" (a legal term) because you really believed you were being paid the right amount and arranged your financial spending/savings accordingly,
you have a good chance of winning a legal argument that you do not have the means of paying back the overpaid amount. Note that you have to be really honest about this otherwise you'll be committing a criminal offence.
If you had some idea that you were being overpaid and did not take steps to correct the situation, you could be in deep poo.
Regarding paying back the amount, a reasonable and usually winable argument is to offer to pay back the whole amount over the same period that it has been wrongly paid to you.
Don't forget that you have paid income tax on the wrong amount too and any overpaid tax can be claimed back from HMRC.
R.
overpayment was for 3 years and identified by my employers a few months ago following external audit but it took them 5 months to present their evidence
i am obtaining external advice as to whether an overpayment has actually occurred as the sum in dispute relates to overtime payment.
the sum is into five figures.
having seen some of my employer's rationale the matter is going to be complicated.
if i have been overpaid then i assume i will have to repay but this is going to cause major issues with tax, pension payments and when mentioned at meeting with employer the message was that that aspect wasn't their problem.
i am obtaining external advice as to whether an overpayment has actually occurred as the sum in dispute relates to overtime payment.
the sum is into five figures.
having seen some of my employer's rationale the matter is going to be complicated.
if i have been overpaid then i assume i will have to repay but this is going to cause major issues with tax, pension payments and when mentioned at meeting with employer the message was that that aspect wasn't their problem.
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