Equal pay in the workplace
Discussion
Not sure if this is counted across permanent employees and contractors.
I (Permanent)is paid X with 24 days holiday
Contractor is paid x + 3k with 24 days holiday. The difference is he is paid by the company who also pay his national insurance and is paid via paye.
I have been there longer - twice as long infact. Do I have any rights or is it tough?
I have been spun the yarn that he is a contractor but I cannot see how where he has paid holiday and the company pays his wages.
Any advise is appreciated.
I (Permanent)is paid X with 24 days holiday
Contractor is paid x + 3k with 24 days holiday. The difference is he is paid by the company who also pay his national insurance and is paid via paye.
I have been there longer - twice as long infact. Do I have any rights or is it tough?
I have been spun the yarn that he is a contractor but I cannot see how where he has paid holiday and the company pays his wages.
Any advise is appreciated.
He may be on a Fixed term Contract with a definite end-date. However that should not have a major impact on the difference in pay scales if you both have exactly the same skills/experience/Job description.
It sounds to me as if your Company really wanted him and he wouldn't join for less than x + £3k. Possible options for you
take it on the chin
Raise it informally with your line manager
Submit a formal grievance
Employment tribunal for discrimination (on the grounds that one of you is a black disabled lesbian?)
It sounds to me as if your Company really wanted him and he wouldn't join for less than x + £3k. Possible options for you
take it on the chin
Raise it informally with your line manager
Submit a formal grievance
Employment tribunal for discrimination (on the grounds that one of you is a black disabled lesbian?)
0000 said:
If he's a contractor I'm surprised they're only paid an extra £3k, that's probably better value for money for them given they don't pay employer NI for him.
Sounds odd, but otherwise it's not a nest I'd poke. If you're that bothered, go and contract elsewhere?
Rights?
Thanks for the advice but if you had read as opposed to have skimmed, they do pay his NI.Sounds odd, but otherwise it's not a nest I'd poke. If you're that bothered, go and contract elsewhere?
Rights?
Countdown said:
He may be on a Fixed term Contract with a definite end-date. However that should not have a major impact on the difference in pay scales if you both have exactly the same skills/experience/Job description.
It sounds to me as if your Company really wanted him and he wouldn't join for less than x + £3k. Possible options for you
take it on the chin
Raise it informally with your line manager
Submit a formal grievance
Employment tribunal for discrimination (on the grounds that one of you is a black disabled lesbian?)
He has been here on a rolling contract since June. I have raised it "informally" and yet I am told he is a contractor. Even though I believe he is not.It sounds to me as if your Company really wanted him and he wouldn't join for less than x + £3k. Possible options for you
take it on the chin
Raise it informally with your line manager
Submit a formal grievance
Employment tribunal for discrimination (on the grounds that one of you is a black disabled lesbian?)
sc0tt said:
He has been here on a rolling contract since June. I have raised it "informally" and yet I am told he is a contractor. Even though I believe he is not.
Effectively his employment status seems no different to yours. The only remedy would be to lodge a case at ET for discrimination (assuming you couldn't resolve it in-house). I don't know what grounds you would be able to base it on though.In the Public Sector most equal Pay claims were lodged by women on the grounds that their roles (dinner ladies, cleaners) were paid less than comparative roles (binmen, maintenance) because they were women (ie sex discrimination). As you and the Contractor are both the same sex Im not sure how you could claim this.
sc0tt said:
He has been here on a rolling contract since June. I have raised it "informally" and yet I am told he is a contractor. Even though I believe he is not.
Effectively his employment status seems no different to yours. The only remedy would be to lodge a case at ET for discrimination (assuming you couldn't resolve it in-house). I don't know what grounds you would be able to base it on though.In the Public Sector most equal Pay claims were lodged by women on the grounds that their roles (dinner ladies, cleaners) were paid less than comparative roles (binmen, maintenance) because they were women (ie sex discrimination). As you and the Contractor are both the same sex Im not sure how you could claim this.
sc0tt said:
Not sure if this is counted across permanent employees and contractors.
I (Permanent)is paid X with 24 days holiday
Contractor is paid x + 3k with 24 days holiday. The difference is he is paid by the company who also pay his national insurance and is paid via paye.
I have been there longer - twice as long infact. Do I have any rights or is it tough?
I have been spun the yarn that he is a contractor but I cannot see how where he has paid holiday and the company pays his wages.
Any advise is appreciated.
Just a few questions.I (Permanent)is paid X with 24 days holiday
Contractor is paid x + 3k with 24 days holiday. The difference is he is paid by the company who also pay his national insurance and is paid via paye.
I have been there longer - twice as long infact. Do I have any rights or is it tough?
I have been spun the yarn that he is a contractor but I cannot see how where he has paid holiday and the company pays his wages.
Any advise is appreciated.
Why do you think you have cause for complaint?
Can you say hand on heart that you are equal to him in terms of ability?
Do you honestly think that length of service = more pay or should this be skills based?
How much do you rate his short term prospects over your longer term stability (if he's on a rolling contract then they will get shot of him before you).
Do you ensure your performance is in line with the amount of pressure you apply at appraisal time?
Unfortunately you have not supplied sufficient info for anyone to give a reasonable answer but when I was permie I worked like a dog and pushed as hard as I could at appraisal time. As a result I saw a 10% rise in salary each year over 4 years. Some of my mates stuck with the default 3% as they either didn't work as hard or failed to push.
From experience, people often bemoan equality of pay in the workplace but sometimes do too little to ensure the best for themselves. Maybe you're in that boat? I don't know but complaining to your boss without a 100% solid arguement isn't going to help. Maybe your productivity is £3k less than his?
Also you probably need to find out what the exact differences are. I'm paid twice what a permie is paid because of many reasons but one of them being a 1 week notice period. I was called round by the boss recently and he suddenly announced that half of the workforce was being kicked out (not me fortunately). Most permies dislike the disparity in money but couldn't handle being told that they've got no more income after 7 days. I appreciate your colleague may not be working like this but a rolling contract brings about different stresses. I've been on 3 month rolling contracts too and it isn't ideal when you have a mortgage and children. Even though I knew there was work on and money in the pot it still lurks in the back of your mind come contract renewal time.
Could you handle this? If so then you could be a prime candidate for contracting so could earn more money yourself. Why don't you investigate this?
Hope this helps
Ha ha - welcome to the world.
I'm currently managing a team with a bunch of contractors, all earning six figures, and on lots more than me. Plenty of my permies earn more than me - due to longevity at the company, capability in their role and market value. On top of all this, also employ a third party supplier who charges out more per day for their people than all of us put together. There are inequalities everywhere!
Due to the strange way our unions represent different grade levels, a load of my guys also have more holiday than me too.
But then I get to tell them all what to do, often they are jobs I wouldn't want to do myself and then get them to buy me tea so it's not all bad.
If I really disliked it, I would go and change jobs , and I learned as I got older and my life more complicated, there's much more to being happy in a role than just money (i.e. company culture, distance from home, no constant travelling, a pension, benefits, etc etc).
Interesting about this individual though, he doesn't sound like any contractor I know of, bear in mind that agency workers now qualify for some permanent rights (like sick leave etc), which is something I'm having to look into at the moment.
I'm currently managing a team with a bunch of contractors, all earning six figures, and on lots more than me. Plenty of my permies earn more than me - due to longevity at the company, capability in their role and market value. On top of all this, also employ a third party supplier who charges out more per day for their people than all of us put together. There are inequalities everywhere!
Due to the strange way our unions represent different grade levels, a load of my guys also have more holiday than me too.
But then I get to tell them all what to do, often they are jobs I wouldn't want to do myself and then get them to buy me tea so it's not all bad.
If I really disliked it, I would go and change jobs , and I learned as I got older and my life more complicated, there's much more to being happy in a role than just money (i.e. company culture, distance from home, no constant travelling, a pension, benefits, etc etc).
Interesting about this individual though, he doesn't sound like any contractor I know of, bear in mind that agency workers now qualify for some permanent rights (like sick leave etc), which is something I'm having to look into at the moment.
prand said:
Interesting about this individual though, he doesn't sound like any contractor I know of, bear in mind that agency workers now qualify for some permanent rights (like sick leave etc), which is something I'm having to look into at the moment.
They will not get OSP, they may get SSP but that's between them and their Agency.Just a few questions.
Why do you think you have cause for complaint? - Because I have more experience, more knowledge in various other skills and technologies, we do the same role.
Can you say hand on heart that you are equal to him in terms of ability? No - Hand on heart better. So much so I have been offered a 3rd line role which was an internal promotion within the same company. But they are cost saving and will not pay. They have given me a payrise which brings me up to the 3k defecit. Before hand it was 6k.
Do you honestly think that length of service = more pay or should this be skills based? No - maybe I worded it wrong. I do not expect anything to be based on this, but doing the same roles I have an extra 6 months worth of experience with Bespoke internal apps.
How much do you rate his short term prospects over your longer term stability (if he's on a rolling contract then they will get shot of him before you). Short term prospects? I can't comment.
Do you ensure your performance is in line with the amount of pressure you apply at appraisal time? My appraisals have never had anything bad back from them and only positive praise given.
My performance is second to none. But work morals are low at current hence the post. The sun doesn't shine out of my arse but I know what I am good at and this is it.
Could you handle this? If so then you could be a prime candidate for contracting so could earn more money yourself. I have always contracted. This is my second perm role in 6 years. I only took it to get on the property ladder which I am now.
I wasn't here to whinge like a baby, more for advice. I know what I am worth. Management know what the current market should be paying and everytime I have approached this I am told it is because he is a contractor.
I feel slightly better as I have a telephone interview tomorrow at 2pm.
Why do you think you have cause for complaint? - Because I have more experience, more knowledge in various other skills and technologies, we do the same role.
Can you say hand on heart that you are equal to him in terms of ability? No - Hand on heart better. So much so I have been offered a 3rd line role which was an internal promotion within the same company. But they are cost saving and will not pay. They have given me a payrise which brings me up to the 3k defecit. Before hand it was 6k.
Do you honestly think that length of service = more pay or should this be skills based? No - maybe I worded it wrong. I do not expect anything to be based on this, but doing the same roles I have an extra 6 months worth of experience with Bespoke internal apps.
How much do you rate his short term prospects over your longer term stability (if he's on a rolling contract then they will get shot of him before you). Short term prospects? I can't comment.
Do you ensure your performance is in line with the amount of pressure you apply at appraisal time? My appraisals have never had anything bad back from them and only positive praise given.
My performance is second to none. But work morals are low at current hence the post. The sun doesn't shine out of my arse but I know what I am good at and this is it.
Could you handle this? If so then you could be a prime candidate for contracting so could earn more money yourself. I have always contracted. This is my second perm role in 6 years. I only took it to get on the property ladder which I am now.
I wasn't here to whinge like a baby, more for advice. I know what I am worth. Management know what the current market should be paying and everytime I have approached this I am told it is because he is a contractor.
I feel slightly better as I have a telephone interview tomorrow at 2pm.
0000 said:
Are you sure? How do you know?
I asked to look at his payslip. He is a mate. I don't begrudge him. I wouldn't say I was jealous (well I am hence the post) but I like to be paid what I feel is equal.I should add. He is good at his job. And he agrees that the treatment is unfair. I'll just assume he is better at negotiating than me. I got him the job
Edited by sc0tt on Thursday 2nd February 17:12
sc0tt said:
I wasn't here to whinge like a baby, more for advice. I know what I am worth. Management know what the current market should be paying and everytime I have approached this I am told it is because he is a contractor.
This^. What you think you are worth doesn't matter. What the market says is also irrelevant. What the management are prepared to pay you is what counts. All you can do change things is to move on.sc0tt said:
I asked to look at his payslip. He is a mate. I don't begrudge him. I wouldn't say I was jealous (well I am hence the post) but I like to be paid what I feel is equal.
I should add. He is good at his job. And he agrees that the treatment is unfair. I'll just assume he is better at negotiating than me. I got him the job
I should add. He is good at his job. And he agrees that the treatment is unfair. I'll just assume he is better at negotiating than me. I got him the job
Edited by sc0tt on Thursday 2nd February 17:12
ow, I bet that hurts!
sc0tt said:
Just a few questions.
Why do you think you have cause for complaint? - Because I have more experience, more knowledge in various other skills and technologies, we do the same role.
Can you say hand on heart that you are equal to him in terms of ability? No - Hand on heart better. So much so I have been offered a 3rd line role which was an internal promotion within the same company. But they are cost saving and will not pay. They have given me a payrise which brings me up to the 3k defecit. Before hand it was 6k.
Do you honestly think that length of service = more pay or should this be skills based? No - maybe I worded it wrong. I do not expect anything to be based on this, but doing the same roles I have an extra 6 months worth of experience with Bespoke internal apps.
How much do you rate his short term prospects over your longer term stability (if he's on a rolling contract then they will get shot of him before you). Short term prospects? I can't comment.
Do you ensure your performance is in line with the amount of pressure you apply at appraisal time? My appraisals have never had anything bad back from them and only positive praise given.
My performance is second to none. But work morals are low at current hence the post. The sun doesn't shine out of my arse but I know what I am good at and this is it.
Could you handle this? If so then you could be a prime candidate for contracting so could earn more money yourself. I have always contracted. This is my second perm role in 6 years. I only took it to get on the property ladder which I am now.
I wasn't here to whinge like a baby, more for advice. I know what I am worth. Management know what the current market should be paying and everytime I have approached this I am told it is because he is a contractor.
I feel slightly better as I have a telephone interview tomorrow at 2pm.
Well if you've been a contractor before then why are you being like this Why do you think you have cause for complaint? - Because I have more experience, more knowledge in various other skills and technologies, we do the same role.
Can you say hand on heart that you are equal to him in terms of ability? No - Hand on heart better. So much so I have been offered a 3rd line role which was an internal promotion within the same company. But they are cost saving and will not pay. They have given me a payrise which brings me up to the 3k defecit. Before hand it was 6k.
Do you honestly think that length of service = more pay or should this be skills based? No - maybe I worded it wrong. I do not expect anything to be based on this, but doing the same roles I have an extra 6 months worth of experience with Bespoke internal apps.
How much do you rate his short term prospects over your longer term stability (if he's on a rolling contract then they will get shot of him before you). Short term prospects? I can't comment.
Do you ensure your performance is in line with the amount of pressure you apply at appraisal time? My appraisals have never had anything bad back from them and only positive praise given.
My performance is second to none. But work morals are low at current hence the post. The sun doesn't shine out of my arse but I know what I am good at and this is it.
Could you handle this? If so then you could be a prime candidate for contracting so could earn more money yourself. I have always contracted. This is my second perm role in 6 years. I only took it to get on the property ladder which I am now.
I wasn't here to whinge like a baby, more for advice. I know what I am worth. Management know what the current market should be paying and everytime I have approached this I am told it is because he is a contractor.
I feel slightly better as I have a telephone interview tomorrow at 2pm.
Surely after all these years you should know that the money you earn bears no relation to your experience/knowledge relative to others. Even as a contractor there is no equality. I've worked with subbies that have 30+ years more experience than me but were still on the same rate.
I don't mean to be harsh but it sounds like you need to get a grip. They've already given you an extra £3k and you want another £3k WTF. If you want that sort of increase then just go back to contracting and all this ill feeling will simply wash away
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