Constructive Dismissal?
Discussion
Mrs Brown currently works from 09:30 until 15:00.
Management have said she has three options
1. Take a job from 09:00 to 15:30 – This stops her from collecting the kids from school and is not workable for her. Her employer knows this.
2. Take lower grade job but on a much lower salary
3. Redundancy
My question is this. They are effectively forcing her to take lower pay or take redundancy as option 1 is unworkable, is this grounds for constructive dismissal?
Regards
Management have said she has three options
1. Take a job from 09:00 to 15:30 – This stops her from collecting the kids from school and is not workable for her. Her employer knows this.
2. Take lower grade job but on a much lower salary
3. Redundancy
My question is this. They are effectively forcing her to take lower pay or take redundancy as option 1 is unworkable, is this grounds for constructive dismissal?
Regards
get some professional advice, provided she's been there more than 2 years it's worth knowing your rights. If they genuinely don't want part-timers then why are they offering a lower paid role? They still have to provide a good reason for not wanting part-time any longer, sounds like there could be a constructive dismissal case.
Edited by Blue62 on Tuesday 7th February 21:35
I'd be looking at it from a number of angles - statutory right to request flexible working (right to request, not right to have, btw), less favourable treatment of part time workers, and indirect discrimination, on the basis that simply not liking part time workers is going to have more of a negative impact on women, given that they are more likely to have child care responsibilities.
Is there definitely nothing more to it than not liking part time workers?
Is there definitely nothing more to it than not liking part time workers?
Rollcage said:
Your employer can vary the terms of your contract as long as they give you sufficient notice to do so. I dont think there is a case for CD here based on what we have seen.
Not strictly true if it only applies to certain categories of worker and they need to provide a sensible reason for doing so, nothing is ever that B & W in employment law. Blue62 said:
Rollcage said:
Your employer can vary the terms of your contract as long as they give you sufficient notice to do so. I dont think there is a case for CD here based on what we have seen.
Not strictly true if it only applies to certain categories of worker and they need to provide a sensible reason for doing so, nothing is ever that B & W in employment law. paulrockliffe said:
I've taken advice on a very similar issue in the past and was advised that it would be up to the employer to convince me to accept a new contract if they wanted to change my working hours, but if I didn't want to the employer couldn't do very much about it without triggering a Constructive Dismissal situation.
I don't think the Employer has to convince you. All he needs is a valid reason for requesting the change. If you don't agree to it the Employer can impose the new T&Cs. The success of any ET is likely to depend on the strength (or otherwise) of the Employers reasons for imposing the new contract.With regards to the OP - "not liking p/t staff" seems an odd reason. If there isn't enough work for her to do why would they want to pay her for more hours? From personal experience it may well be that they need the office covered between 8:00 and 5:00, for example.
Countdown said:
don't think the Employer has to convince you. All he needs is a valid reason for requesting the change. If you don't agree to it the Employer can impose the new T&Cs. The success of any ET is likely to depend on the strength (or otherwise) of the Employers reasons for imposing the new contract.
With regards to the OP - "not liking p/t staff" seems an odd reason. If there isn't enough work for her to do why would they want to pay her for more hours? From personal experience it may well be that they need the office covered between 8:00 and 5:00, for example.
It depends what's in the contract I think. If there isn't a term in there that allows the Employer to vary the contract to accommodate a reasonable business need, then the Employer can't just change the contract. Otherwise what's the point in the contract? Although most employment contracts are constructed to allow the employer to vary things like working hours or job description if required, mine isn't and the advice I was given was on that basis.With regards to the OP - "not liking p/t staff" seems an odd reason. If there isn't enough work for her to do why would they want to pay her for more hours? From personal experience it may well be that they need the office covered between 8:00 and 5:00, for example.
For clarification, Mrs Brown's role is as a teacher. In the interest of impartiality this is the reason the employer would like a 09:00 to 15:30 working day.
To confuse matters the manager instigating this change has never seen eye to eye with Mrs Brown. They were at the same level but the manager was promoted. From a biased stand point, it has a strong whiff of revenge about it.
That aside, I have suggested to Mrs Brown she obtain a copy of her current contract and the terms of their offer documented. Without those there are too many unknown variables at this time.
I will be back with more info.
Many thanks, all.
To confuse matters the manager instigating this change has never seen eye to eye with Mrs Brown. They were at the same level but the manager was promoted. From a biased stand point, it has a strong whiff of revenge about it.
That aside, I have suggested to Mrs Brown she obtain a copy of her current contract and the terms of their offer documented. Without those there are too many unknown variables at this time.
I will be back with more info.
Many thanks, all.
paulrockliffe said:
It depends what's in the contract I think. If there isn't a term in there that allows the Employer to vary the contract to accommodate a reasonable business need, then the Employer can't just change the contract. Otherwise what's the point in the contract? Although most employment contracts are constructed to allow the employer to vary things like working hours or job description if required, mine isn't and the advice I was given was on that basis.
Within all Contracts it states that Notice period (for both employee and employer). What happens in practise is that the employer gives the employee notice (of termination) and then re-employs them on the new Contract. The reason for termination would be "Some other substantive reason" (i.e. the justification for the employer to dismiss the employee). It would be up to an ET to decide whether the SOSR was valid or whether it was unfair dismissal.So using the OP example
Employer decides that employee needs to change working hours. All options should be explored and the Employer should be able to demonstrate why they are not practicable. If the only viable option from the employers point of view is the change in hours then the employer can effectively impose a new contract
The definition of Constructive is 'a unilateral change in terms and conditions of employment that goes to the heart of the contract' and a defence is ' legitimate business reorganisation'
So the two tests here are 1 - Is this a change that goes to the heart of the contract?
2 - Is this reorganisation legitimate - or manufactured?
Both sides look thin to me - perhaps rasing a frievance first and trying to sort it out over a cup of tea might be a good idea.
If Mrs B is in the State sector many LEA HR departmants will run a mile rather than face a tribunal.....
So the two tests here are 1 - Is this a change that goes to the heart of the contract?
2 - Is this reorganisation legitimate - or manufactured?
Both sides look thin to me - perhaps rasing a frievance first and trying to sort it out over a cup of tea might be a good idea.
If Mrs B is in the State sector many LEA HR departmants will run a mile rather than face a tribunal.....
erolb said:
For clarification, Mrs Brown's role is as a teacher. In the interest of impartiality this is the reason the employer would like a 09:00 to 15:30 working day.
To confuse matters the manager instigating this change has never seen eye to eye with Mrs Brown. They were at the same level but the manager was promoted. From a biased stand point, it has a strong whiff of revenge about it.
That aside, I have suggested to Mrs Brown she obtain a copy of her current contract and the terms of their offer documented. Without those there are too many unknown variables at this time.
Well that's a bit weird. Assuming she's in an LA school then, IIRC, Teachers hours are agreed as part of the STPCD. So as part of her current contract she will have so many hours contact time and so many hours PPA time (pro-rata to a full timer) So it wouldn't make sense to make her full time unless there were various timetabling or staffing changes which required it. That can and does happen but it would come from the top (i.e. the Headteacher). It wouldn't be done at a Departmental level (IME)so I'd be surprised if it was motivated by revenge.To confuse matters the manager instigating this change has never seen eye to eye with Mrs Brown. They were at the same level but the manager was promoted. From a biased stand point, it has a strong whiff of revenge about it.
That aside, I have suggested to Mrs Brown she obtain a copy of her current contract and the terms of their offer documented. Without those there are too many unknown variables at this time.
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