What are recruiters expecting? Readvertising jobs.
Discussion
Quite often, daily even, I see jobs being readvertised. Some of them I have applied for, and even had an interview. So some of my query is born from anger at my continued unemploymentness. But I digest.
So many jobs are readvertised and it can't be through lack of applicants, just lack of suitable candidates. But if you can't find a suitable candidate from nearly 100 applicants should you not reconsider just how much you are expecting or willing to pay?
So many jobs are readvertised and it can't be through lack of applicants, just lack of suitable candidates. But if you can't find a suitable candidate from nearly 100 applicants should you not reconsider just how much you are expecting or willing to pay?
Had the same problem when I was out of work for 15 months a while back. Quite a few jobs coming through that I could do but insisted on having a qualification; Prince2 project management in my case. I tried explaining to the agents that the qualification is over rated (it is) and I had 24 years experience in investment operations including the past 10 in change/project management. They wouldn't listen and I saw the same job re-advertised quite a few times. I assumed that candidates offered the role had the qualification but were found out to have no practical "hands on" experience quite early in.
One other trick is for agencies to advertise fictional jobs to top up their CV pool ahead of the perceived busy period in February/March when budgets are released and headcount can be increased.
Keep your chin up something will come along
One other trick is for agencies to advertise fictional jobs to top up their CV pool ahead of the perceived busy period in February/March when budgets are released and headcount can be increased.
Keep your chin up something will come along
Unfortunately, in this highly regulated (and thus becoming more and more uncompetitive) country of ours, governance requirements in many sectors demand specific qualifications. Until the government can turn back the clock, it's likely to get a lot worse before it gets better. I know of a number of industries where it is becoming increasingly difficult to appoint to due to a lack of suitably qualified, but not experienced, applicants. These industries carry large numbers of gaps, but get by by appointing interims. This, for some, has become a career in itself. So, if you can't beat them...
Good luck!
Good luck!
From a recruiters point of view...
We typically use advertising on job boards (reed for us) as a last resort for a number of reasons. We buy 300 credits to place adverts on Reed a year and deal with approximately 1000 roles a year.
It can sometimes work but a lot of the time the applicants you get really are crap/under qualified/over qualfiied etc.
I favour candidates who are live on job boards personally.
We typically use advertising on job boards (reed for us) as a last resort for a number of reasons. We buy 300 credits to place adverts on Reed a year and deal with approximately 1000 roles a year.
It can sometimes work but a lot of the time the applicants you get really are crap/under qualified/over qualfiied etc.
I favour candidates who are live on job boards personally.
Sometimes the company who have the vacancy screw the recruiter around. They'll make up a list of "wants", do a round of interviews and then decide to change the job spec a little and the whole thing starts over.
Companies can be unbelievably stupid at times. I once went for an interview for a technical position with a fairly large company that used to be part of BAe. During the interview I got grilled on project management techniques and experience, cost accounting, budgeting (into the millions), a bit of people management and so on.
I would estimate the job was 20% technical, max. It was a management job for someone with a technical background.
I told the recruiter this and with a long sigh he explained as far as they were concerned this was a technical job and were refusing people with extensive management experience as not strong enough.
IIRC it ended up with a few other recruiters, position was open for well over a year. God only knows what happened, the job needed two or three people really.
Companies can be unbelievably stupid at times. I once went for an interview for a technical position with a fairly large company that used to be part of BAe. During the interview I got grilled on project management techniques and experience, cost accounting, budgeting (into the millions), a bit of people management and so on.
I would estimate the job was 20% technical, max. It was a management job for someone with a technical background.
I told the recruiter this and with a long sigh he explained as far as they were concerned this was a technical job and were refusing people with extensive management experience as not strong enough.
IIRC it ended up with a few other recruiters, position was open for well over a year. God only knows what happened, the job needed two or three people really.
A recent case study for me...
Company A has used A N Other company for its recruitment, and failed to get any good candidates, so asked me to take a look. I advertised, searched, made a bunch of calls and got 5 good candidates to them (and 20 or so applicants who were not quite right)
5 first interviews followed.
2 second interviews were arranged.
One candidate didn't show
Second candidate failed for various reasons.
Job now has to be re-advertised. All those who applied originally will re-apply, I can guarantee it.
Another example...
Company B asked for candidates for a couple of roles at the beginning of January - I gave them 15 to choose from, all with the required skills as they requested, again selected from applicants and direct sources. After 8 weeks the company FINALLY decided to ask 5 of the ten for interview. 3 have found work, with just 2 remaining interested that is not enough to give them a good selection, so the job(s) are being re-advertised.
No shenanigans, no skullduggery. If you think you are good enough for the job, apply and then follow up with a phone call - your CV might just not be clear enough to hit the recruiter in the face.
Company A has used A N Other company for its recruitment, and failed to get any good candidates, so asked me to take a look. I advertised, searched, made a bunch of calls and got 5 good candidates to them (and 20 or so applicants who were not quite right)
5 first interviews followed.
2 second interviews were arranged.
One candidate didn't show
Second candidate failed for various reasons.
Job now has to be re-advertised. All those who applied originally will re-apply, I can guarantee it.
Another example...
Company B asked for candidates for a couple of roles at the beginning of January - I gave them 15 to choose from, all with the required skills as they requested, again selected from applicants and direct sources. After 8 weeks the company FINALLY decided to ask 5 of the ten for interview. 3 have found work, with just 2 remaining interested that is not enough to give them a good selection, so the job(s) are being re-advertised.
No shenanigans, no skullduggery. If you think you are good enough for the job, apply and then follow up with a phone call - your CV might just not be clear enough to hit the recruiter in the face.
mondeoman said:
Company B asked for candidates for a couple of roles at the beginning of January - I gave them 15 to choose from,
You gave a client 15 CVs for 2 roles?With the greatest of respect, where is the value add? As a client I may as well advertise myself and sift the CVs, surely as a recruiter you should qualify the candidates and provide the best 2-3 CVs for each role?
If a recruiter sent me 15 CVs, I'd tell them sort their life out.
I have recently hired and got 3 CVs for 2 roles (the roles were the same spec) - I don't have time to review 15!
flyingjase said:
mondeoman said:
Company B asked for candidates for a couple of roles at the beginning of January - I gave them 15 to choose from,
You gave a client 15 CVs for 2 roles?With the greatest of respect, where is the value add? As a client I may as well advertise myself and sift the CVs, surely as a recruiter you should qualify the candidates and provide the best 2-3 CVs for each role?
If a recruiter sent me 15 CVs, I'd tell them sort their life out.
I have recently hired and got 3 CVs for 2 roles (the roles were the same spec) - I don't have time to review 15!
Most times I'm happy to provide up to 5 that hit the spot, if possible. One role I'm looking at at the moment has had two - but to me they are perfect, but I'll guarantee that the client will ask for more. If I had a £ for the number of times I've given a client the perfect candidate who's been interviewed successfully only to be told "see who else you can find, we want to be sure..." I'd be a rich recruiter
. And they will not take NO for an answer.The other thing is that clients change their minds - you take a detailed brief, source the candidates, pre-qualify and put forward, then get told they're looking for something slightly different, so sometimes you have to try to cover all the bases. Every candidate I submit is pre-qualified by me, based on what I know about the role, which, with the best will in the world, does evolve as companies see who is available on the market at any one time. Thats why its consulting - you develop the perfect solution with the client, thats where the added value comes from.
I'll happily work with you if you're happy with 3 CVs for two roles.
mondeoman said:
Its a client I've worked with for a long time - they ALWAYS want 7 or 8 for each vacancy, which they then short list down to 3 or 4 and interview them. Thats how they work. I've tried giving them less, but they always ask for more (like Oliver Twist).
Most times I'm happy to provide up to 5 that hit the spot, if possible. One role I'm looking at at the moment has had two - but to me they are perfect, but I'll guarantee that the client will ask for more. If I had a £ for the number of times I've given a client the perfect candidate who's been interviewed successfully only to be told "see who else you can find, we want to be sure..." I'd be a rich recruiter. And they will not take NO for an answer.
The other thing is that clients change their minds - you take a detailed brief, source the candidates, pre-qualify and put forward, then get told they're looking for something slightly different, so sometimes you have to try to cover all the bases. Every candidate I submit is pre-qualified by me, based on what I know about the role, which, with the best will in the world, does evolve as companies see who is available on the market at any one time. Thats why its consulting - you develop the perfect solution with the client, thats where the added value comes from.
I'll happily work with you if you're happy with 3 CVs for two roles.
Amazing! Different world to the one I live in. I honestly wouldn't have time. On a recent hire I made, we advertised directly and thank god HR did a cracking job on filtering the CV's for me. I did interview 4 people for 1 role, so more than normal but this was a senior role and absolutely critical to get right. Apparently we had over 70 applications for it.Most times I'm happy to provide up to 5 that hit the spot, if possible. One role I'm looking at at the moment has had two - but to me they are perfect, but I'll guarantee that the client will ask for more. If I had a £ for the number of times I've given a client the perfect candidate who's been interviewed successfully only to be told "see who else you can find, we want to be sure..." I'd be a rich recruiter
. And they will not take NO for an answer.The other thing is that clients change their minds - you take a detailed brief, source the candidates, pre-qualify and put forward, then get told they're looking for something slightly different, so sometimes you have to try to cover all the bases. Every candidate I submit is pre-qualified by me, based on what I know about the role, which, with the best will in the world, does evolve as companies see who is available on the market at any one time. Thats why its consulting - you develop the perfect solution with the client, thats where the added value comes from.
I'll happily work with you if you're happy with 3 CVs for two roles.
Can I ask what type of roles they were just out of interest?
flyingjase said:
Amazing! Different world to the one I live in. I honestly wouldn't have time. On a recent hire I made, we advertised directly and thank god HR did a cracking job on filtering the CV's for me. I did interview 4 people for 1 role, so more than normal but this was a senior role and absolutely critical to get right. Apparently we had over 70 applications for it.
Can I ask what type of roles they were just out of interest?
Service Engineers - thats my speciality. Can I ask what type of roles they were just out of interest?
I've been getting a bit of this recently. I've been applying for roles that I tick all the boxes for, not just a few and hopefully about some but all of them.
And I don't even get a reply to my application, let alone an interview. And then 2 weeks later, that role, or one remarkably similar is back on the boards.
I had a friend refer me to an agency the other day, the woman called me to ask for CV and then she would call back to arrange a meeting, 4 days later, no call. I will call her but I really can't see how she can be that busy. I'm in recruiting myself and I KNOW that no-one is that busy at the moment.
And I don't even get a reply to my application, let alone an interview. And then 2 weeks later, that role, or one remarkably similar is back on the boards.
I had a friend refer me to an agency the other day, the woman called me to ask for CV and then she would call back to arrange a meeting, 4 days later, no call. I will call her but I really can't see how she can be that busy. I'm in recruiting myself and I KNOW that no-one is that busy at the moment.
And sometimes (with respect to any honest recruitment guys reading this) the job does not exist in any meaningful way and the agency is just C.V harvesting, and should you follow up with a phone call they will innocently try and find out what other companies you have applied to for a position. This is done so that they can then get on the phone to the companies in question and try and put some of there own guys forward.
I think that employers are putting to much trust in it being a sellers market. Thinking they can pay £18k for a £25k job and being dissapointed they're not getting the right people applying.
Part of my problem comes from being previously self employed, I have naff all qualifications and being self tought doesn't seem to cut the mustard.
I know it's tough at the moment, my mother finally got full time employment again after 2.5 years of agency work.
Part of my problem comes from being previously self employed, I have naff all qualifications and being self tought doesn't seem to cut the mustard.
I know it's tough at the moment, my mother finally got full time employment again after 2.5 years of agency work.
louiebaby said:
scotal said:
Original Poster said:
I favour candidates who are live on job boards personally.
What do you mean by that?Thanks in advance.
That keeps you at the top of the pile and makes you visible. Recruiters who use the boards will do a search when they get a new job on, generally looking at all CVs on the database or back say 3-6 months, but that can be a LOT of CVs so if your CV isn't updated regularly it might not get picked up in the searches.
HTH
Charlie Foxtrot said:
I think that employers are putting too much trust in it being a sellers market. Thinking they can pay £18k for a £25k job and being dissapointed they're not getting the right people applying.
Part of my problem comes from being previously self employed, I have naff all qualifications and being self tought doesn't seem to cut the mustard.
I know it's tough at the moment, my mother finally got full time employment again after 2.5 years of agency work.
Its funny, I hadn't thought the self-employed thing would be an issue and now I think that maybe that is part of the problem. I've been contracting for the last few years, in an industry that normally doesn't do it. So maybe they have been wondering why someone self employed would want a salaried job.Part of my problem comes from being previously self employed, I have naff all qualifications and being self tought doesn't seem to cut the mustard.
I know it's tough at the moment, my mother finally got full time employment again after 2.5 years of agency work.
I can't even get the agencies to give me a call back, so your mum was lucky to get that sort of work IMHO.
I think it's a big issue for me. How can I prove I am good at what I did/do when the only example I can give of me doing that finishes with us going bust?
I've not got any previous experience before that to fall back on. I came out of 1 year at uni and a till monkey job and into business with my step-dad. You know what they say about working with family? I should have listened.
Still I've got time and I'll persevere. At least I've not had to become dole-scum yet.
I've not got any previous experience before that to fall back on. I came out of 1 year at uni and a till monkey job and into business with my step-dad. You know what they say about working with family? I should have listened.
Still I've got time and I'll persevere. At least I've not had to become dole-scum yet.
mondeoman said:
Simply means get your CV on all the main job boards - Jobsite, Monster, CVLibrary, Reed, TotalJobs and on any niche boards that are specific to you eg SimplySaes, JustEngineers etc... and update your CV regularly (or at least reload it on a regular basis).
That keeps you at the top of the pile and makes you visible. Recruiters who use the boards will do a search when they get a new job on, generally looking at all CVs on the database or back say 3-6 months, but that can be a LOT of CVs so if your CV isn't updated regularly it might not get picked up in the searches.
HTH
Thank you That keeps you at the top of the pile and makes you visible. Recruiters who use the boards will do a search when they get a new job on, generally looking at all CVs on the database or back say 3-6 months, but that can be a LOT of CVs so if your CV isn't updated regularly it might not get picked up in the searches.
HTH
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