Any Doctors in the House please?
Discussion
Not sure whether to post this here or in 'Jobs', but I figure the people I would like to help me, are more likely to be in this forum...
I'm 40 this August, and to be honest am at a crossroads. Lost my job yet again two weeks ago - had 4 jobs in 4 years, with as many redundancies; the recession has really kicked my industry's arse (printing) properly badly - in fact a recent trade journal report says that half - half of the printing firms in the UK have closed since 2007.
So I think it's pointless getting or trying to get yet another job in a dying trade. The net has taken all the advertising and printing revenue really now, and not many people buy magazines anymore.
To give you an example, one of the magazines I used to print in it's heydey was Maxim. We used to run a quarter of a million copies each month - then it started to dwindle as more and more people went online / stopped buying magazines at £4 or £5 a pop. Maxim eventually closed and went exclusively online.
My skills are such that I have been in Senior Management for about the last 10 years - basically General Manager running the places on behalf of the Directors. So a fair bit of analytical business strategy, figures, sales, but also technical knowledge of the entire process (which is actually pretty complex) plus people management skills.
In one hiatus I did also start and run a small business in something completely different (Hairdressing and Beauty Salon!) which gave me a living until the next decent print job came along. I then sold the business I had started for around four times what it initially cost me to set up - a good return, so I guess can be classed as a success. It's still going great guns now.
I'm pretty technically minded with loads of experience tearing down cars and bikes - also did 5 successful years of bike racing, with all the technical and analytical skills that requires.
Anyway to get to the point. My Brother did a medical degree when he left school, and uses it to good effect in the city at an investment bank to help people invest millions into pharmaceutical companies. I meanwhile went into print when I left school, as Dad was in print and back then (1988) it was a well respected and well paid job.
I did earn a decent living in print, but nothing breathtaking, and as of today because of a failed relationship and all the redundancies, I am living back at home with Mum. Ok, I do have a couple of investment properties, but they've all got mortgages on them, have plunged in value, and bring in not much profit.
My Brother meanwhile, is a millionnaire in a huge coach house in Kent with lots of exotic cars.
Ever felt like you took a wrong turn in life???
So at 40 I am seriously considering doing an access to medicine course at my local College (to count for A levels I didn't do as I started an apprenticeship at 16) and coupled with luckily 9 GSCE's that I did get, maybe trying to get into University to do a 5 year medical degree, and end up as a Doctor of some description. I live in Winchester so would be over the bloody moon if I could get into Southampton, and I also understand that Soton is one of the best med schools in the country to boot.
My Brother and a few Government careers advisors I have run the idea past say it's a good idea, and my age wouldn't be a limiting factor. In fact the careers guy said that a University would probably be more likely to award me a place, as given my age and the 'complete disaster' it would be for me if I did fail / drop out, it is more likely that I would take every single day with a high degree of seriousness and work my balls off - which is completely true - if I did do this I would make damn sure I seized the opportunity and didn't feck it up.
My Brother who knows me well, also reckons I have the intelligence and cognitive ability to do the course. Probably most importantly, I have always been fascinated by human biology since god knows when, and even before this idea took shape have spent hours on the net looking at aspects of human biology. And despite it's numerous inaccuracies, I lap up watching 'Casualty', 'Holby City' and any other medical TV show - helicopter paramedics, the lot. So that basically means I love the subject in hand. I'm also a volunteer St. John ambulance trainee.
So I already have a very basic medical knowledge and I'm always trying to learn more.
I also have two friends who are Physiotherapists, one of which works at the Hospital, and has offered for me to shadow him and pick up what I can.
I figure I will finish my training by 46 years old, and my two foundation years as a junior will see me qualified as a Doctor by 48.
Retirement age for me will I guess be at 70, so that gives me 22 years to earn some decent cash as a Doctor, and hopefully retire in comfort.
Am I mental, or is this a possible 'go-er' at my age???
I would be delighted if someone who has done it / or currently studying could comment and help me out.
Thanks guys - this is a serious question and will shape my direction in life - so I would respectfully solicit only serious answers and ask you to go 'light' on p1ss taking and PH humour...thanks for understanding!
I'm 40 this August, and to be honest am at a crossroads. Lost my job yet again two weeks ago - had 4 jobs in 4 years, with as many redundancies; the recession has really kicked my industry's arse (printing) properly badly - in fact a recent trade journal report says that half - half of the printing firms in the UK have closed since 2007.
So I think it's pointless getting or trying to get yet another job in a dying trade. The net has taken all the advertising and printing revenue really now, and not many people buy magazines anymore.
To give you an example, one of the magazines I used to print in it's heydey was Maxim. We used to run a quarter of a million copies each month - then it started to dwindle as more and more people went online / stopped buying magazines at £4 or £5 a pop. Maxim eventually closed and went exclusively online.
My skills are such that I have been in Senior Management for about the last 10 years - basically General Manager running the places on behalf of the Directors. So a fair bit of analytical business strategy, figures, sales, but also technical knowledge of the entire process (which is actually pretty complex) plus people management skills.
In one hiatus I did also start and run a small business in something completely different (Hairdressing and Beauty Salon!) which gave me a living until the next decent print job came along. I then sold the business I had started for around four times what it initially cost me to set up - a good return, so I guess can be classed as a success. It's still going great guns now.
I'm pretty technically minded with loads of experience tearing down cars and bikes - also did 5 successful years of bike racing, with all the technical and analytical skills that requires.
Anyway to get to the point. My Brother did a medical degree when he left school, and uses it to good effect in the city at an investment bank to help people invest millions into pharmaceutical companies. I meanwhile went into print when I left school, as Dad was in print and back then (1988) it was a well respected and well paid job.
I did earn a decent living in print, but nothing breathtaking, and as of today because of a failed relationship and all the redundancies, I am living back at home with Mum. Ok, I do have a couple of investment properties, but they've all got mortgages on them, have plunged in value, and bring in not much profit.
My Brother meanwhile, is a millionnaire in a huge coach house in Kent with lots of exotic cars.
Ever felt like you took a wrong turn in life???
So at 40 I am seriously considering doing an access to medicine course at my local College (to count for A levels I didn't do as I started an apprenticeship at 16) and coupled with luckily 9 GSCE's that I did get, maybe trying to get into University to do a 5 year medical degree, and end up as a Doctor of some description. I live in Winchester so would be over the bloody moon if I could get into Southampton, and I also understand that Soton is one of the best med schools in the country to boot.
My Brother and a few Government careers advisors I have run the idea past say it's a good idea, and my age wouldn't be a limiting factor. In fact the careers guy said that a University would probably be more likely to award me a place, as given my age and the 'complete disaster' it would be for me if I did fail / drop out, it is more likely that I would take every single day with a high degree of seriousness and work my balls off - which is completely true - if I did do this I would make damn sure I seized the opportunity and didn't feck it up.
My Brother who knows me well, also reckons I have the intelligence and cognitive ability to do the course. Probably most importantly, I have always been fascinated by human biology since god knows when, and even before this idea took shape have spent hours on the net looking at aspects of human biology. And despite it's numerous inaccuracies, I lap up watching 'Casualty', 'Holby City' and any other medical TV show - helicopter paramedics, the lot. So that basically means I love the subject in hand. I'm also a volunteer St. John ambulance trainee.
So I already have a very basic medical knowledge and I'm always trying to learn more.
I also have two friends who are Physiotherapists, one of which works at the Hospital, and has offered for me to shadow him and pick up what I can.
I figure I will finish my training by 46 years old, and my two foundation years as a junior will see me qualified as a Doctor by 48.
Retirement age for me will I guess be at 70, so that gives me 22 years to earn some decent cash as a Doctor, and hopefully retire in comfort.
Am I mental, or is this a possible 'go-er' at my age???
I would be delighted if someone who has done it / or currently studying could comment and help me out.
Thanks guys - this is a serious question and will shape my direction in life - so I would respectfully solicit only serious answers and ask you to go 'light' on p1ss taking and PH humour...thanks for understanding!
I'm a med student currently in my 4th year. There are plenty of grad students on my course, ranging from about age 26-40 some have kids. They seem to work better and be more organised than us young'un.
Some of them balance other jobs around the course ( I have no idea how.) But, I'll be honest I've found it a hard slog, some will say it's easy, but here are days when myself and a ALL of my friends stop and think... 'do I really want to be doing this'.
If you are up for it and think your capable, go for it.
Some of them balance other jobs around the course ( I have no idea how.) But, I'll be honest I've found it a hard slog, some will say it's easy, but here are days when myself and a ALL of my friends stop and think... 'do I really want to be doing this'.
If you are up for it and think your capable, go for it.
My Aunt did more or less this. Did a medicine degree at Southampton having had her family and having done her 1st BSc in microbiology a good few years before.
She only chose Southampton as she had a family to consider but I believe they were quite helpful and obviously she had the qualifications and skills to get in.
She did most of her training and susequently junior work in Southampton/Portsmouth/Salisbuy/Basingstoke so all commutable.
Now a consultant in Southampton.
So yes quite possible so why not.
Equally little sister is a senior physio in Portsmouth so quite happy to point you her way if you want a chat.
Junior physio and junior medic salaries are rather different mind you. Actually I imagine senior ones are too!
My experience of teaching mature students is that they are either vary good and obviously committed (they have given up work for x amount of time to do it) have excellent people skills from their age and will make excellent clinicians or, and its a big or , are really poor and should have been told that this wasn't for them a long time prior to the exams they were taking.
I struggled to see how they were ever going to pass.
She only chose Southampton as she had a family to consider but I believe they were quite helpful and obviously she had the qualifications and skills to get in.
She did most of her training and susequently junior work in Southampton/Portsmouth/Salisbuy/Basingstoke so all commutable.
Now a consultant in Southampton.
So yes quite possible so why not.
Equally little sister is a senior physio in Portsmouth so quite happy to point you her way if you want a chat.
Junior physio and junior medic salaries are rather different mind you. Actually I imagine senior ones are too!
My experience of teaching mature students is that they are either vary good and obviously committed (they have given up work for x amount of time to do it) have excellent people skills from their age and will make excellent clinicians or, and its a big or , are really poor and should have been told that this wasn't for them a long time prior to the exams they were taking.
I struggled to see how they were ever going to pass.
Edited by DKL on Wednesday 22 February 22:15
Rollin said:
How is your memory?
Funny you should ask that - it's 'average' I would say; like a lot of people, I can recall the most random of things that I have had very limited exposure to, but often struggle to tell you what I had for dinner last night. I am also guilty of letting things my girlfriend tell me go in one ear and out the other - this could just be 'male selective memory syndrome' though!I recently discussed this idea with my dentist when I was last with him - he also said he doesn't see a problem with it and described medical training as 'rote learning'; i.e. the type of repetitive retention that repeating times tables at Primary School gives you for good recall.
I can certainly remember all those times tables as if I had only learned them yesterday.
He also said that it was important to 'write up' lectures immediately upon getting home whilst still fresh in your memory. Some of his peers didn't bother until later or the next day and he said he thinks it was doing that that made it easier for him to reall what he had been taught.
Do you think it's mostly about memory and recall more than attitude and technical understanding then?
DKL said:
My Aunt did more or less this. Did a medicine degree at Southampton having had her family and having done her 1st BSc in microbiology a good few years before.
She only chose Southampton as she had a family to consider but I believe they were quite helpful and obviously she had the qualifications and skills to get in.
She did most of her training and susequently junior work in Southampton/Portsmouth/Salisbuy/Basingstoke so all commutable.
Now a consultant in Southampton.
So yes quite possible so why not.
Equally little sister is a senior physio in Portsmouth so quite happy to point you her way if you want a chat.
Junior physio and junior medic salaries are rather different mind you. Actually I imagine senior ones are too!
She only chose Southampton as she had a family to consider but I believe they were quite helpful and obviously she had the qualifications and skills to get in.
She did most of her training and susequently junior work in Southampton/Portsmouth/Salisbuy/Basingstoke so all commutable.
Now a consultant in Southampton.
So yes quite possible so why not.
Equally little sister is a senior physio in Portsmouth so quite happy to point you her way if you want a chat.
Junior physio and junior medic salaries are rather different mind you. Actually I imagine senior ones are too!
Exactly the kind of endorsement I was looking for, thanks.What age was your Aunt when she did it if you don't mind me asking?
To be honest, the salary isn't all that important to me - what is important is having the rest of my career in front of me with aspects of 'always learning' included, which makes me get out of bed in the mornings. Security I guess is also a huge incentive - I'm sick of private sector uncertainty and the constant threat of redundancy.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Rollin said:
How is your memory?
Funny you should ask that - it's 'average' I would say; like a lot of people, I can recall the most random of things that I have had very limited exposure to, but often struggle to tell you what I had for dinner last night. I am also guilty of letting things my girlfriend tell me go in one ear and out the other - this could just be 'male selective memory syndrome' though!I recently discussed this idea with my dentist when I was last with him - he also said he doesn't see a problem with it and described medical training as 'rote learning'; i.e. the type of repetitive retention that repeating times tables at Primary School gives you for good recall.
I can certainly remember all those times tables as if I had only learned them yesterday.
He also said that it was important to 'write up' lectures immediately upon getting home whilst still fresh in your memory. Some of his peers didn't bother until later or the next day and he said he thinks it was doing that that made it easier for him to reall what he had been taught.
Do you think it's mostly about memory and recall more than attitude and technical understanding then?
Lots of things like this for starters.
http://dentallecnotes.blogspot.com/2011/07/lecture...
I would go for it, but expect it to be very difficult. I have a friend who has recently qualified as a dentist at the age of 42.
Your age will most likely not be a problem.
You might want to have a rough idea which way you want to be heading once you are out of med school and actually working as Doctor. Although, this may change during your training and possibly after, it might give you an idea of roughly what to look for/expect later.
Given your age, it will be more difficult to change from one speciality to another should you consider doing that in the future.
You might want to have a rough idea which way you want to be heading once you are out of med school and actually working as Doctor. Although, this may change during your training and possibly after, it might give you an idea of roughly what to look for/expect later.
Given your age, it will be more difficult to change from one speciality to another should you consider doing that in the future.
I'm not so sure. As you get older the ability to take in information recedes.
Also, once qualified, am I not right in thinking that doctors earn a crap wage for long hours for quite some time? I'd have thought you would be getting into your 50's before you start to get a decent wage, the normal point when I'd have thought a lot of doc's would have peaked and have their consultants jobs etc?
If you don't earn for 5+ yrs, plus build up a whack of student debt, that'll need factored in as well, so the "well paid" job at the end may not be quite so enticing.
Surely you have transferable skills that can be used in different trades? Can you not start another of the businesses which you sold?
Also, once qualified, am I not right in thinking that doctors earn a crap wage for long hours for quite some time? I'd have thought you would be getting into your 50's before you start to get a decent wage, the normal point when I'd have thought a lot of doc's would have peaked and have their consultants jobs etc?
If you don't earn for 5+ yrs, plus build up a whack of student debt, that'll need factored in as well, so the "well paid" job at the end may not be quite so enticing.
Surely you have transferable skills that can be used in different trades? Can you not start another of the businesses which you sold?
With regard to 'specialising' after qualification, definitely don't want to be a GP, so I'm looking towards Hospital registrar / consultant.
CT surgery fascinates me, so for now at least, that is what I guess I would work towards, although as you say it might change as I get more involved. As an unqualified outsider with no knowledge, it is hard to make that call right now.
With regard to the other poster's question about transferable skills - yep I guess I could transfer my mangement experience into something else.
The issue I have is a personal one with regard to my career. Maybe I'm going through a mid-life crisis, who knows, but when I'm running printing factories, I feel like I'm just going to work and coming home again to earn a wage to buy stuff and live - no real special interest in the job, and I find it harder and harder to feel like a loyal and integrated employee, because I've been 'binned' so quickly by companies I've worked hard for in the name of saving money.
I've just felt like an expendable cog in a corporate machine that exists to make the Directors and Shareholders money, and hence of about zero value to society as a whole, and certainly not a good use of my time, life and experience.
I've looked at medicine as a way to feel like my working day is of value to society - that my working hours really make a difference to people's lives - and I'm a valued member of a team that exists to help and assist people each day, and that I don't just cop another 'cash saving' redundancy from yet another random company only there to make cash.
I know it may partly be driven by the doom and gloom of the recession too, but I'm sick of feeling that my existence is a waste of time kinda thing?
Hard to explain really.
CT surgery fascinates me, so for now at least, that is what I guess I would work towards, although as you say it might change as I get more involved. As an unqualified outsider with no knowledge, it is hard to make that call right now.
With regard to the other poster's question about transferable skills - yep I guess I could transfer my mangement experience into something else.
The issue I have is a personal one with regard to my career. Maybe I'm going through a mid-life crisis, who knows, but when I'm running printing factories, I feel like I'm just going to work and coming home again to earn a wage to buy stuff and live - no real special interest in the job, and I find it harder and harder to feel like a loyal and integrated employee, because I've been 'binned' so quickly by companies I've worked hard for in the name of saving money.
I've just felt like an expendable cog in a corporate machine that exists to make the Directors and Shareholders money, and hence of about zero value to society as a whole, and certainly not a good use of my time, life and experience.
I've looked at medicine as a way to feel like my working day is of value to society - that my working hours really make a difference to people's lives - and I'm a valued member of a team that exists to help and assist people each day, and that I don't just cop another 'cash saving' redundancy from yet another random company only there to make cash.
I know it may partly be driven by the doom and gloom of the recession too, but I'm sick of feeling that my existence is a waste of time kinda thing?
Hard to explain really.
If you want to do it go ahead, I know of people older than you while I was in med school..
I dont think memory will be a problem, motivation will be your biggest thing
Med school can be tough and thing is it does not end there.. After medical school in the 2 years of the foundation programme you have to be proactive and attend courses, study for your additional exams (MRCS, MRCP etc) whilst working a 48hr week, interviews, heavy competition for CT jobs the field you are interested in (surgery, average ratios this year is over 3:1). After that your life in CT1/2 is pretty much the same, with even heavier competition at applications for ST3 registrar posts (example 15:1 ratios in some surgical specialities)
It is not straight forward go to med school, get a degree, work as a doctor. Lots of stuff in between that the general public don't necessarily know about.
If you know all this and its what you want to get into then by all means .. go for it! The world always needs good, safe, motivated doctors
I dont think memory will be a problem, motivation will be your biggest thing
Med school can be tough and thing is it does not end there.. After medical school in the 2 years of the foundation programme you have to be proactive and attend courses, study for your additional exams (MRCS, MRCP etc) whilst working a 48hr week, interviews, heavy competition for CT jobs the field you are interested in (surgery, average ratios this year is over 3:1). After that your life in CT1/2 is pretty much the same, with even heavier competition at applications for ST3 registrar posts (example 15:1 ratios in some surgical specialities)
It is not straight forward go to med school, get a degree, work as a doctor. Lots of stuff in between that the general public don't necessarily know about.
If you know all this and its what you want to get into then by all means .. go for it! The world always needs good, safe, motivated doctors
Edited by andrew186 on Wednesday 22 February 23:11
G/f's Mum used to be a sales rep for a tobacco firm, decided one day it wasn't for her at the ripe old age of 39, retrained into medicine and management and now runs a lab specialising in blood analysis of something interesting that's a bit like CSI
Said it wasn't easy financially, but was worth some short term pain to get where she wanted to go. I guess you might need some direction
Said it wasn't easy financially, but was worth some short term pain to get where she wanted to go. I guess you might need some direction
How about considering pre hospital work,
http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/working_for_us/p...
Shorter study initially, career development onto Paramedic Practitioner, Emergency care Practitioner, HART team, BASICS, Helicopter.
http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/working_for_us/p...
Shorter study initially, career development onto Paramedic Practitioner, Emergency care Practitioner, HART team, BASICS, Helicopter.
Getting on to a medical degree course is hard as there's lots of competition.
Once on the course, the vast majority (90%+) of medical students pass so the medical degree is in fact the easiest part of becoming a doctor!
The long hours whilst a junior and the need to pass very difficult professional exams (pass rate of 30%) at the same time to progress in your career can be soul destroying. The competition for popular specialities is fierce and everyone will be just as good or better than you.
The job, like everything else, has its boring bread and butter work and frustrating bureaucracy.
If money is important, I would have thought that dentistry would be a better option. You would became an independent dental surgeon much quicker than any sort of medical surgeon. Plenty of private work in dentistry so plenty of opportunity to make money.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Once on the course, the vast majority (90%+) of medical students pass so the medical degree is in fact the easiest part of becoming a doctor!
The long hours whilst a junior and the need to pass very difficult professional exams (pass rate of 30%) at the same time to progress in your career can be soul destroying. The competition for popular specialities is fierce and everyone will be just as good or better than you.
The job, like everything else, has its boring bread and butter work and frustrating bureaucracy.
If money is important, I would have thought that dentistry would be a better option. You would became an independent dental surgeon much quicker than any sort of medical surgeon. Plenty of private work in dentistry so plenty of opportunity to make money.
Good luck whatever you decide.
I hope it works out for you, I genuinely mean that. However, I fear that any medical school worth bothering with will give someone in your position short shrift. You're a braver man than I, to even consider this route. The Patch Adams story might give you some inspiration, good luck.
BadRotorFinger said:
How about considering pre hospital work,
http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/working_for_us/p...
Shorter study initially, career development onto Paramedic Practitioner, Emergency care Practitioner, HART team, BASICS, Helicopter.
Portsmouth Uni also runs this course http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/working_for_us/p...
Shorter study initially, career development onto Paramedic Practitioner, Emergency care Practitioner, HART team, BASICS, Helicopter.
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