Prince2 - What am I missing?
Discussion
T5R+ said:
I am an advocate.
I'm interested in this, as it's something I've considered doing having muled over the idea of moving into a direct PM role - could you elaborate as to what you 'gained' from it?I'm not knocking it at all - I've just had the similar wonderings to the OP over the last couple of years and would like to know more about what it does for you!
It has become a standard.
To be honest, I'm sure the vast majority of people writing the job spec don't even understand what Prince2 really is, and its merits and faults.
For a PM, it is a toolset - like many other options.
It may "only be a 1 week course" but it never ceases to amaze me how many people do not pass. That aside, anyone looking for a decent PM will want experience too.
To be honest, I'm sure the vast majority of people writing the job spec don't even understand what Prince2 really is, and its merits and faults.
For a PM, it is a toolset - like many other options.
It may "only be a 1 week course" but it never ceases to amaze me how many people do not pass. That aside, anyone looking for a decent PM will want experience too.
Worked in World Class Manufacturing and promoted into a project biased role.
Used to run "projects" (eg Engineering, New Products, etc) but as with most project people....had a talent planning/organising/etc BUT I felt self taught.
Wanted to improve. Looked at options and decided on PRinCE2.
It very much gives you an insight from start to finish and the mechanisms plus processes one CAN use. Typed CAN in bold as I have never taken it as a "one size fits all template" - simply a set of tools and techniques that may be employed.
Even today I "self audit" to ensure that I follow a system for delivery.
My assumption is any Project certification (PMP, PMI, etc) would suffice but most people now know of PRinCE2.
Used to run "projects" (eg Engineering, New Products, etc) but as with most project people....had a talent planning/organising/etc BUT I felt self taught.
Wanted to improve. Looked at options and decided on PRinCE2.
It very much gives you an insight from start to finish and the mechanisms plus processes one CAN use. Typed CAN in bold as I have never taken it as a "one size fits all template" - simply a set of tools and techniques that may be employed.
Even today I "self audit" to ensure that I follow a system for delivery.
My assumption is any Project certification (PMP, PMI, etc) would suffice but most people now know of PRinCE2.
SilverLinings said:
I'm not knocking it.
But if I compare, say, a 1 year full time course in something to a 1 week course, my intuition tells me a 1 week course is that short for a reason.
I do, however, fully understand the 'checkbox' nature of 'professional accreditation'.
I'm oviously not articulating myself too well (pre-caffeine) - I don't mind you knocking it.But if I compare, say, a 1 year full time course in something to a 1 week course, my intuition tells me a 1 week course is that short for a reason.
I do, however, fully understand the 'checkbox' nature of 'professional accreditation'.
To "get" Prince2 I find that most people need to have some PM experience, otherwise they just get lost.
The checkbox accreditation is there now though, sadly. Amusingly, even P2 state that it you follow the guidance to the letter your project will fail
Many other things are the same though - a lot of things are only a week long course, but having the certificate doesn't make you any good at it.
Thanks for the info T5R+ - just what I was looking for... I'm from a similar background - Mech Eng degree, in Manufacturing, involved with a lot of (largely IT) project work and feel very 'self taught' so would be looking to acquire more 'off job' education if I was to focus directly on PM at some point in future!
T5R+ said:
Worked in World Class Manufacturing and promoted into a project biased role.
Used to run "projects" (eg Engineering, New Products, etc) but as with most project people....had a talent planning/organising/etc BUT I felt self taught.
Wanted to improve. Looked at options and decided on PRinCE2.
It very much gives you an insight from start to finish and the mechanisms plus processes one CAN use. Typed CAN in bold as I have never taken it as a "one size fits all template" - simply a set of tools and techniques that may be employed.
Even today I "self audit" to ensure that I follow a system for delivery.
My assumption is any Project certification (PMP, PMI, etc) would suffice but most people now know of PRinCE2.
Out of curiosity, do you use 6 Sigma?Used to run "projects" (eg Engineering, New Products, etc) but as with most project people....had a talent planning/organising/etc BUT I felt self taught.
Wanted to improve. Looked at options and decided on PRinCE2.
It very much gives you an insight from start to finish and the mechanisms plus processes one CAN use. Typed CAN in bold as I have never taken it as a "one size fits all template" - simply a set of tools and techniques that may be employed.
Even today I "self audit" to ensure that I follow a system for delivery.
My assumption is any Project certification (PMP, PMI, etc) would suffice but most people now know of PRinCE2.
I do utilise 6 Sigma within products/quality/control. To be fair, my team (Quality Eng, Mech Eng and begrudingly .....the Controls Engineers systematically use it to support manufacuring and operations)- ?
Started to use this about 15 years ago. Believe the core principles are still valid.
PRinCE2 Foundation course would benefit a lot of business professionals without going onto Practitioner. Remember you can also de-link and have an interval between the two.
I do see why people think it a "tick box" - I was the same but given the number of hirers who demand/expect it - complete it. At the very least you will learn something new irrespective of whether you then elect to utilise the methodology, plus it is another positive on your CV.
My view is such that unless you want to become a career "black belt" project manager - most of the accredited organisations are "much of a muchness". Today the fashion is PRinCE2 (and ITIL) tomorrow everybody is going to be screaming Agile, SCRUM and Waterfall.
Started to use this about 15 years ago. Believe the core principles are still valid.
PRinCE2 Foundation course would benefit a lot of business professionals without going onto Practitioner. Remember you can also de-link and have an interval between the two.
I do see why people think it a "tick box" - I was the same but given the number of hirers who demand/expect it - complete it. At the very least you will learn something new irrespective of whether you then elect to utilise the methodology, plus it is another positive on your CV.
My view is such that unless you want to become a career "black belt" project manager - most of the accredited organisations are "much of a muchness". Today the fashion is PRinCE2 (and ITIL) tomorrow everybody is going to be screaming Agile, SCRUM and Waterfall.
Ultuous said:
Thanks for the info T5R+ - just what I was looking for... I'm from a similar background - Mech Eng degree, in Manufacturing, involved with a lot of (largely IT) project work and feel very 'self taught' so would be looking to acquire more 'off job' education if I was to focus directly on PM at some point in future!
This is what I did for 3 years - then left before getting the company to pay for Prince2 or lean SixSigma or Agile courses.Self taught PM'ing and broad commercial experience seems unsellable to a recruitment consultant!
Hmmm - Interesting discussion.
I would certainly advocate P2 as a 'tick-box' for a PM in the early stages of their career. Whilst never a substitute for real-world experience it is viewed by employers as a demonstration of some element of cognisance by the individual (I view it as demonstrating a good level of common sense and an ability to pass exams) and will open several more doors.
I have been running projects/programmes both as a permanent employee and a contractor for some 25 years now (after making the jump from my original Accounting career) and have never even looked at a P2 book let alone taken the exams. I suspect my experience counts for more in the roles I do....
I would certainly advocate P2 as a 'tick-box' for a PM in the early stages of their career. Whilst never a substitute for real-world experience it is viewed by employers as a demonstration of some element of cognisance by the individual (I view it as demonstrating a good level of common sense and an ability to pass exams) and will open several more doors.
I have been running projects/programmes both as a permanent employee and a contractor for some 25 years now (after making the jump from my original Accounting career) and have never even looked at a P2 book let alone taken the exams. I suspect my experience counts for more in the roles I do....
Podie said:
SilverLinings said:
Self taught PM'ing and broad commercial experience seems unsellable to a recruitment consultant!
Get on a P2 course and then it's job done for you.Happy to recommend a decent trainer in London (no affiliation)
Feel free to email me johnfm69@gmail.com
SilverLinings said:
Podie said:
SilverLinings said:
Self taught PM'ing and broad commercial experience seems unsellable to a recruitment consultant!
Get on a P2 course and then it's job done for you.Happy to recommend a decent trainer in London (no affiliation)
Feel free to email me johnfm69@gmail.com
For reference, keep an eye on late availability - you can nearly halve the cost.
SilverLinings said:
Seems a lot of PM jobs seeking Prince2 (among other buzzwords).
I find it surprising that industry places so much emphasis on a 'qualification' that can be gained in a 1 week course....
If you were so inclined you could do Foundation and Practitioner in 3 days with a company called Firebrand (3 day residential for £2.2k all in).I find it surprising that industry places so much emphasis on a 'qualification' that can be gained in a 1 week course....
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