Help me write reply to boss's comments
Discussion
Today out of the blue my boss called me in for ‘a chat’ in which basically he told me he was starting a three stage process, the end of which involves me and a P45. He said that I was unproductive, error prone and my knowledge was not where it should be for someone with my experience.
He said I was booking too much time to admin and the last jobs I worked on had overrun, he also said that some of the reports I submitted to him for checking had errors in them.
He’s written all this down and tomorrow I get the chance to add my comments to it, before it gets filed with HR
I’m trying to think what to say in my defence, for some back ground I’ve worked with this particular company for over six years and until today I’ve never had my work criticised, in fact I was once mentioned by name in the company’s yearly round up email for a job I did particularly well. The reasons I booked so much time to admin was because we were recently taken over by a consultancy firm, who have drastically cut the number of hours we are allowed for each job, so to save stuffing the job up by overbooking time I frequently book time to admin rather than the job I’m working on. I know others in my office either do this or work extra hours unpaid (we have no overtime). Having a family and reasonably long commute I’ve just been working the hours I used before the takeover.
Sometimes I also have genuinely had nothing to do and boss was unable to find me work to do. When I mentioned this he came out with a list of about four things another group head had apparently asked me to do. Out of the list I only recognised being asked to do one of them which involved a reasonable setup time before you could actually start the job, making it impractical unless you had about a day spare to spend on it.
With regards to the errors I don’t think I’m making any more or any less errors than I normally make, the whole reason he reads or reports after all is so he can check for errors.
What has also annoyed me was he didn’t just talk to me about this off the record instead he’s started this process, (don’t know if it’s worth mentioning this in my defence comment).
Not being much of a word smith I was hoping you guys could help me write this in a strong argument in my defence.
He said I was booking too much time to admin and the last jobs I worked on had overrun, he also said that some of the reports I submitted to him for checking had errors in them.
He’s written all this down and tomorrow I get the chance to add my comments to it, before it gets filed with HR
I’m trying to think what to say in my defence, for some back ground I’ve worked with this particular company for over six years and until today I’ve never had my work criticised, in fact I was once mentioned by name in the company’s yearly round up email for a job I did particularly well. The reasons I booked so much time to admin was because we were recently taken over by a consultancy firm, who have drastically cut the number of hours we are allowed for each job, so to save stuffing the job up by overbooking time I frequently book time to admin rather than the job I’m working on. I know others in my office either do this or work extra hours unpaid (we have no overtime). Having a family and reasonably long commute I’ve just been working the hours I used before the takeover.
Sometimes I also have genuinely had nothing to do and boss was unable to find me work to do. When I mentioned this he came out with a list of about four things another group head had apparently asked me to do. Out of the list I only recognised being asked to do one of them which involved a reasonable setup time before you could actually start the job, making it impractical unless you had about a day spare to spend on it.
With regards to the errors I don’t think I’m making any more or any less errors than I normally make, the whole reason he reads or reports after all is so he can check for errors.
What has also annoyed me was he didn’t just talk to me about this off the record instead he’s started this process, (don’t know if it’s worth mentioning this in my defence comment).
Not being much of a word smith I was hoping you guys could help me write this in a strong argument in my defence.
Sorry you're in such a spot - you probably don't feel too good about it all at the moment.
I'm no expert, but I'd say you need to respond to each of the points he makes in turn, calmly and reasonably, and with evidence if you have it.
If I were you I would also take advice from the CAB, or a union if you belong to one.
I'd also start looking for another job. What you've said doesn't sound good, and it sounds like they've decided you don't fit. Ultimately you will probably end up moving on, either by jumping or being pushed - sorry if that's not what you want to hear.
I'm no expert, but I'd say you need to respond to each of the points he makes in turn, calmly and reasonably, and with evidence if you have it.
If I were you I would also take advice from the CAB, or a union if you belong to one.
I'd also start looking for another job. What you've said doesn't sound good, and it sounds like they've decided you don't fit. Ultimately you will probably end up moving on, either by jumping or being pushed - sorry if that's not what you want to hear.
Thanks for the reply, I did used to really enjoy my job, the company that took us over pays far lower than our average salary. I can only think he is trying to push me out to get someone cheaper to replace me. On another positive note because of this I will be receiving a big zero for a pay rise this year.
I'm kinda stuck in my current job as well as I'm in the middle of selling my house and the mortgage companies wants six months continual employment with the same company before they will give me a mortgage so if I change jobs I can't move for another six months1
I'm kinda stuck in my current job as well as I'm in the middle of selling my house and the mortgage companies wants six months continual employment with the same company before they will give me a mortgage so if I change jobs I can't move for another six months1
rainagain said:
Thanks for the reply, I did used to really enjoy my job, the company that took us over pays far lower than our average salary. I can only think he is trying to push me out to get someone cheaper to replace me. On another positive note because of this I will be receiving a big zero for a pay rise this year.
I'm kinda stuck in my current job as well as I'm in the middle of selling my house and the mortgage companies wants six months continual employment with the same company before they will give me a mortgage so if I change jobs I can't move for another six months1
First off, find your company's disciplinary procedure, and find out on what grounds they consider summary dismissal. This sounds like it will be on the grounds of capability, and I'm pretty sure that's a bit naughty if they don't give you any chance to improve, or even tell you that you're not doing well enough. I'm kinda stuck in my current job as well as I'm in the middle of selling my house and the mortgage companies wants six months continual employment with the same company before they will give me a mortgage so if I change jobs I can't move for another six months1
Drag out any appraisals you've had, which I assume will say your work is satisfactory. Also find any other positive communications, especially from the manager in question or from customers. If they want you out they'll have you out, but you need to go down kicking and screaming to scare them into a fat settlement.
I'd agree with the observation of there being a covert strategy of getting you out - probably others too. Redundancy costs money after all!
Consider the matters raised as honestly as you can - does he have a point? If so, take it on the chin, and aim to improve.
If not, contest but do so carefully and take copious notes - dates, times and nature of all discussions, print out and keep any relevant emails.
Good luck.
Consider the matters raised as honestly as you can - does he have a point? If so, take it on the chin, and aim to improve.
If not, contest but do so carefully and take copious notes - dates, times and nature of all discussions, print out and keep any relevant emails.
Good luck.
Your post is written quite eloquently so I suspect you do have the 'word smith' skills to respond. What you may be lacking however is both confidence and technical insight, which is not uncommon. I would certainly echo what has been said above and seek independent specialist advice to assist with your response as the implications could be far-reaching. Good luck!
Recently found myself in a similar situation - after 22 years with the same company.
I'm currently on gardening leave before taking the redundancy package I negotiated. I'd echo the comments above - challenge it and keep good records. DON'T sign the assessment to say you agree to it -if you have to sign - do so but write that you acknowledge receipt but not agreement to the content.
Feel free to PM me and I can give you the benefit of my experience if it's of any help.
It's not a nice place to be (trust me I know!) but keep your chin up.
I'm currently on gardening leave before taking the redundancy package I negotiated. I'd echo the comments above - challenge it and keep good records. DON'T sign the assessment to say you agree to it -if you have to sign - do so but write that you acknowledge receipt but not agreement to the content.
Feel free to PM me and I can give you the benefit of my experience if it's of any help.
It's not a nice place to be (trust me I know!) but keep your chin up.
Just some points. He had 'a chat' with you? have you had anything in writing, where you given notice of the meeting? was a representative of HR present? Have you discussed an action plan for improvement?
Just from another angle to this, I had one of these chat last year, doesnt sound dissimilar to yours but it was stopped by the representative of HR i'd asked to join us, after she read my notes over my shoulder and checked my file and found that I had one of the highest appraisal scores she had seen consistently over the last 3 years.
It turned out my boss was trying in his own special way to take more responsibility without increasing my pay, ive now stepped upto this challenge but have yet to see any return on the investment ive made in my leadership and interpersonal skills, I have scored higher again on my appraisal this year than I have in previous years.
You need to have a think about the whole situation being honest with yourself and perhaps have an honest and open chat with HR and your boss about the whole situation (dont say anything that can be used against you, ask lots of questions and dont get into a discussion, you need lots of clear answers), if you make the move to improve quickly by making an action plan then you are seen to have taken the comments onboard and be a team player.
Its all about perception, so even without improving you could change how your boss see you and that is everything as an employee within a large company.
To summarise, get everything in writing, get advice from HR and the union/CAB (try not to get them initially involved), make an action plan.
Just from another angle to this, I had one of these chat last year, doesnt sound dissimilar to yours but it was stopped by the representative of HR i'd asked to join us, after she read my notes over my shoulder and checked my file and found that I had one of the highest appraisal scores she had seen consistently over the last 3 years.
It turned out my boss was trying in his own special way to take more responsibility without increasing my pay, ive now stepped upto this challenge but have yet to see any return on the investment ive made in my leadership and interpersonal skills, I have scored higher again on my appraisal this year than I have in previous years.
You need to have a think about the whole situation being honest with yourself and perhaps have an honest and open chat with HR and your boss about the whole situation (dont say anything that can be used against you, ask lots of questions and dont get into a discussion, you need lots of clear answers), if you make the move to improve quickly by making an action plan then you are seen to have taken the comments onboard and be a team player.
Its all about perception, so even without improving you could change how your boss see you and that is everything as an employee within a large company.
To summarise, get everything in writing, get advice from HR and the union/CAB (try not to get them initially involved), make an action plan.
To my mind when you go into a meeting such as this there should have already been discussions about your performance being substandard in order to give you a chance to put things right. However the reason this hasn't happened is they are trying to manage you out as you are probably seen as overpaid in the current set up. I would be seriously seeking alternative employment NOW - as it is easier to get a job if you are already emplyed rather than unemployed.
You have absolutely nothing to lose by going in 'all guns blazing', pointing out that the first time you were aware of an apparent underperformance should not have been in that meeting. I would definitley take union advice and have a representative's input (and presence at any meeting) but I think I'd be blunt and state your honest opinion that you feel you are seen as a costly expense and that the meeting is just an excuse to cut costs and has nothing to do with your performance.
If you want to try to keep your job you could argue about your previous good performance, shout about unfair dismissal etc and you might just get to keep it and they may pick on someone else. However would you really want to stay where your boss thinks so little of you to pick on you in this way. I doubt I would unless job security was hugely important to me.
Your best bet might be to ask for redundancy or a compromise agreement so you will go without a fuss and get a good reference and good payout the downside for them being otherwise you will fight tooth and nail.
Sorry for your situation I hope it all works out for you.
You have absolutely nothing to lose by going in 'all guns blazing', pointing out that the first time you were aware of an apparent underperformance should not have been in that meeting. I would definitley take union advice and have a representative's input (and presence at any meeting) but I think I'd be blunt and state your honest opinion that you feel you are seen as a costly expense and that the meeting is just an excuse to cut costs and has nothing to do with your performance.
If you want to try to keep your job you could argue about your previous good performance, shout about unfair dismissal etc and you might just get to keep it and they may pick on someone else. However would you really want to stay where your boss thinks so little of you to pick on you in this way. I doubt I would unless job security was hugely important to me.
Your best bet might be to ask for redundancy or a compromise agreement so you will go without a fuss and get a good reference and good payout the downside for them being otherwise you will fight tooth and nail.
Sorry for your situation I hope it all works out for you.
I'd speak to your HR,and may be another Manager/boss not directly involved with you, first to see whether they have a process for how they handle under performing employees as that sounds a little out of the blue to me.
Our policy is to have informal (but summarised in writing to that person afterwards) to discuss any issues, find out if it's just a dip etc, and do everything we can before we start anything formal.
Me personally, I want to try and ensure my team are fully aware of any expectations I, or the company, have throughout, and I'll gently reset them when I see them slipping. No big issue, no fuss, but from what you've described, there's more to it than severe under performance.
Our policy is to have informal (but summarised in writing to that person afterwards) to discuss any issues, find out if it's just a dip etc, and do everything we can before we start anything formal.
Me personally, I want to try and ensure my team are fully aware of any expectations I, or the company, have throughout, and I'll gently reset them when I see them slipping. No big issue, no fuss, but from what you've described, there's more to it than severe under performance.
StevieBee said:
I'd agree with the observation of there being a covert strategy of getting you out - probably others too. Redundancy costs money after all!
Consider the matters raised as honestly as you can - does he have a point? If so, take it on the chin, and aim to improve.
If not, contest but do so carefully and take copious notes - dates, times and nature of all discussions, print out and keep any relevant emails.
Good luck.
This - ^ Consider the matters raised as honestly as you can - does he have a point? If so, take it on the chin, and aim to improve.
If not, contest but do so carefully and take copious notes - dates, times and nature of all discussions, print out and keep any relevant emails.
Good luck.
It sounds like you are being singled out, I'd try and keep as positive as you can as any negative vibe will hinder you in this sort of process.
Thanks for all the replies, I had a chat with HR who were a lot more positive. I've now officially been given my 'performance improvement plan' it lists what I've meant to have done wrong and if I comply within seven weeks it gets closed.
It basically has what was discussed at the meeting, I've been booking too much time to admin and making errors. So since the meeting I've been working an extra hour/hour an a half every night. Something I'm not happy with but right now I need my job more than my principles.
I'm still really annoyed about a couple of things:
1. no pay rise, so they're trying to say I've been performing crap for a whole year but they left it till pay rise time to discuss it with me how convenient!
2. I'm annoyed at my boss for pulling this on me and involving HR, this form and my comments will be permanently filed on record
So it's a case of head down, extra hours unpaid till the move, anyone want to buy a house?
It basically has what was discussed at the meeting, I've been booking too much time to admin and making errors. So since the meeting I've been working an extra hour/hour an a half every night. Something I'm not happy with but right now I need my job more than my principles.
I'm still really annoyed about a couple of things:
1. no pay rise, so they're trying to say I've been performing crap for a whole year but they left it till pay rise time to discuss it with me
how convenient!2. I'm annoyed at my boss for pulling this on me and involving HR, this form and my comments will be permanently filed on record
So it's a case of head down, extra hours unpaid till the move, anyone want to buy a house?
rainagain said:
Thanks for all the replies, I had a chat with HR who were a lot more positive. I've now officially been given my 'performance improvement plan' it lists what I've meant to have done wrong and if I comply within seven weeks it gets closed.
It basically has what was discussed at the meeting, I've been booking too much time to admin and making errors. So since the meeting I've been working an extra hour/hour an a half every night. Something I'm not happy with but right now I need my job more than my principles.
I'm still really annoyed about a couple of things:
1. no pay rise, so they're trying to say I've been performing crap for a whole year but they left it till pay rise time to discuss it with me how convenient!
2. I'm annoyed at my boss for pulling this on me and involving HR, this form and my comments will be permanently filed on record
So it's a case of head down, extra hours unpaid till the move, anyone want to buy a house?
Good luck but it strikes me as odd you don't want to put in extra here and there especially since you have been making lots of errors. Look for a new job ASAP unless your boss moves.If he really does not like you, he can just 'say' your performance is useless to manage you out, or find another way. Either way, it sounds like he will never be happy because of this and neither will you regardless of how you work. It basically has what was discussed at the meeting, I've been booking too much time to admin and making errors. So since the meeting I've been working an extra hour/hour an a half every night. Something I'm not happy with but right now I need my job more than my principles.
I'm still really annoyed about a couple of things:
1. no pay rise, so they're trying to say I've been performing crap for a whole year but they left it till pay rise time to discuss it with me
how convenient!2. I'm annoyed at my boss for pulling this on me and involving HR, this form and my comments will be permanently filed on record
So it's a case of head down, extra hours unpaid till the move, anyone want to buy a house?
What industry is it?
Rainagain - good luck & I hope this has started sorting things.
I am a bit cynical so I'd be very careful to get documented reviews on progress to ensure you are achieving the requirements of the performance plan.
It may be that this was just a game to avoid having to give you a payrise this year but if it goes deeper than that you could be looking at a formal process in 7 weeks.
I hope I'm just being paranoid but I'd be job hunting as soon as your house move is sorted!
I am a bit cynical so I'd be very careful to get documented reviews on progress to ensure you are achieving the requirements of the performance plan.
It may be that this was just a game to avoid having to give you a payrise this year but if it goes deeper than that you could be looking at a formal process in 7 weeks.
I hope I'm just being paranoid but I'd be job hunting as soon as your house move is sorted!
GadgeS3C said:
Sensible things
Good advice on this thread, I reckon.I would also say that employees don't exactly call the shots at the moment. We're in a difficult time for employment, and those of us in tolerable jobs ought to be grateful for them in some ways, I'd say.
Not that this gives your employer a licence to take the piss, but I would say that in a company looking to shed staff and costs - as all organisations are trying to at the moment, public sector included - you need to make sure that you look like an invaluable asset to the organisation. Is that how they'd describe you?
All the best.
OP have you read the companies capability policy? most companies that have such a policy which yours clearly does have it linked to the appraisal process and therefore it shouldn't be a surprise. Even if it is then the first stage of a capability policy is generally an informal stage where a manager will work with you over a couple of months to improve areas of issue. This would normally happen before it goes formal and HR get involved. If you are in a union go and get advice from them.
I had something very similar after 6.5 years at a company. All appraisals etc were excellent then suddenly I was hit with a bad appraisal and a 6 week improvement plan. The things I was apparently not doing had never been part of my role and I soon realised this was simple justification to try to get me out on the basis of cost.
I did however work my backside off to address all the things mentioned which meant they couldn't get rid of me for underperforming - I was instead offered a compromise agreement! I was the first of 12 to either be made redundant, dismissed or given a compromise agreement (out of an IT dept of 120ish). Since then around half the department have gone through cost-cutting.
If your situation is the same as mine (and it sounds like it is) then it's only a matter of time before you are either dismissed, made redundant or given a compromise agreement.
My advice:
- Get your CV up the date
- Look for a new job
but in the meantime
- keep notes of everything related to this (meetings etc)
- get a copy of your contract (if you don't already have it) and copies of all appraisals
- record all meetings and make sure you have someone in there with you
In my experience, the minute it is mentioned that you are on your way out your time is almost up. And let's face it, do you want to work for a company that does this to it's staff?
(PS you don't work for an accountancy firm that is not part of the Big 4 do you?)
I did however work my backside off to address all the things mentioned which meant they couldn't get rid of me for underperforming - I was instead offered a compromise agreement! I was the first of 12 to either be made redundant, dismissed or given a compromise agreement (out of an IT dept of 120ish). Since then around half the department have gone through cost-cutting.
If your situation is the same as mine (and it sounds like it is) then it's only a matter of time before you are either dismissed, made redundant or given a compromise agreement.
My advice:
- Get your CV up the date
- Look for a new job
but in the meantime
- keep notes of everything related to this (meetings etc)
- get a copy of your contract (if you don't already have it) and copies of all appraisals
- record all meetings and make sure you have someone in there with you
In my experience, the minute it is mentioned that you are on your way out your time is almost up. And let's face it, do you want to work for a company that does this to it's staff?
(PS you don't work for an accountancy firm that is not part of the Big 4 do you?)
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