Employee leaves, no notice given
Discussion
I run a small building/engineering company, we specialise in installing crop storage facilities & I have two full time guys + myself on site. 2 weeks ago one of my employees, who has been with me about 6 months, stopped work after about an hour. I asked him what was the matter, he replied that he didn't know but just didn't want to be there. I understand that he has an on & off relationship with his mrs & he has claimed that his father is ill & that his cousin tried to kill himself. Some of this is believed to be fantasy as his mrs is the daughter of a friend of mine so I get to hear both sides of the story.
Anyway, I took him home (we work away from home Mon-Fri) which cost me half a day lost on site, he promised me he would let me know what was happening as I have a large contract which starts in Denmark in a weeks time & have already made the travel arrangements. The job has to be done on a given time scale & I need 100% reliability from my employees, which up until now I have always had (they are paid well for the job they do, around £600 per week for semi skilled labour) he has not been in touch since & will not answer his phone, although he has managed to post up stuff on Facebook about his birthday night out & other shenanigans. I have now sacked him & taken on a replacement who is looking like being a credit to my company.
Question is can I legally deduct from his final payment any of the costs I have incurred by his lack of notice? His contract requires 2 weeks notice by either employee or employer, he is paid monthly.
I have lost the cost of having to sub contract out the work he should have done + the time & travel to take him home + the time I have had to spend finding a replacement.
Anyway, I took him home (we work away from home Mon-Fri) which cost me half a day lost on site, he promised me he would let me know what was happening as I have a large contract which starts in Denmark in a weeks time & have already made the travel arrangements. The job has to be done on a given time scale & I need 100% reliability from my employees, which up until now I have always had (they are paid well for the job they do, around £600 per week for semi skilled labour) he has not been in touch since & will not answer his phone, although he has managed to post up stuff on Facebook about his birthday night out & other shenanigans. I have now sacked him & taken on a replacement who is looking like being a credit to my company.
Question is can I legally deduct from his final payment any of the costs I have incurred by his lack of notice? His contract requires 2 weeks notice by either employee or employer, he is paid monthly.
I have lost the cost of having to sub contract out the work he should have done + the time & travel to take him home + the time I have had to spend finding a replacement.
Does the contract say you can?
If you are relying on the contract to suggest he is in breach by not giving notice, you need to rely on the contract as to whether you can recoup costs.
My guess - you probably can't recoup the costs of hiring a replacement - you would have spent this even if he had given you notice.
If you are relying on the contract to suggest he is in breach by not giving notice, you need to rely on the contract as to whether you can recoup costs.
My guess - you probably can't recoup the costs of hiring a replacement - you would have spent this even if he had given you notice.
I've found a replacement thanks, it's just wound me up a bit as I like to think I am fair with my employees, with this particular guy I have been picking him up & dropping him home as he's lost his driving licence, I've given him subs on his wages when he's asked, even paid him for a couple of days he had off when he had no holiday entitlement due.
I do not have a clause in the contract which says about claiming compensation as it was not something I had considered, perhaps I should rethink that one!
Fortunately there is no penalty clause for being late on completion of the contract we are currently on, as his actions have made the job run over by a couple of days. Perhaps when he said he wanted to go home I should haver told him to walk!
I do not have a clause in the contract which says about claiming compensation as it was not something I had considered, perhaps I should rethink that one!
Fortunately there is no penalty clause for being late on completion of the contract we are currently on, as his actions have made the job run over by a couple of days. Perhaps when he said he wanted to go home I should haver told him to walk!
I don't think you can.
Tribal Chestnut said:
Just don't pay him, or make the deductions and pay what's left. Ignore his calls, only releasing the funds if/when things get legal.
I would pay up and draw a line under it. He's seems to have been a thoughtless arse (some employees can be). Don't descend to his level even though the temptation is great.Tribal Chestnut said:
Just don't pay him, or make the deductions and pay what's left. Ignore his calls, only releasing the funds if/when things get legal.
Definitely do this. If he can't be arsed to give you the respect of a formal resignation he should have to chase YOU for the money. Terminator X said:
Interesting thread - understand that a notice period is in most contracts & works both ways of course, what might happen if you didn't work part of it though? Is it just a reputation issue?
TX.
Depends on the circumstances of them leaving.TX.
I wouldnt want to force an employee to work out his notice - too much chance of them f
king things up deliberately. Best rid of them asap.mrmr96 said:
shovelheadrob said:
I have now sacked him ... can I legally deduct from his final payment any of the costs I have incurred by his lack of notice?
Umm, if you sacked him then why does HE have to give YOU notice and not the other way around?I really feel like making him wait for his money as suggested then paying up just before it goes to court, but I will probably just pay the t
t & draw a line under the event.shovelheadrob said:
mrmr96 said:
shovelheadrob said:
I have now sacked him ... can I legally deduct from his final payment any of the costs I have incurred by his lack of notice?
Umm, if you sacked him then why does HE have to give YOU notice and not the other way around?I really feel like making him wait for his money as suggested then paying up just before it goes to court, but I will probably just pay the t
t & draw a line under the event.I understand why you're pissed off with him, I would be too. But if you don't pay his notice and he takes you to tribunal then you'd need to justify your decision not to pay that, within the constraints of his contract of employment. Claiming your expenses back from his final pay packet is taking it a stage even further and you could be on shaky ground if he took it legal.
You may be best off getting some proper advice as firing people can get expensive if not done by the book and they sue you.
shovelheadrob said:
...I really feel like making him wait for his money as suggested then paying up just before it goes to court, but I will probably just pay the tt & draw a line under the event.
Ironically, if you pay him late, he may be able to make a claim for damages in the Employment Tribunal. You may also be able to make a counter-claim for his breach of contract - although you would have to prove he has breached it sufficiently by his conduct to summarily dismiss him. t & draw a line under the event.Although being treated badly by an employee can be as difficult to accept as when it is the other way round unless you want to risk tying yourself up in litigation you are best advised to pay him what he is due, when it is due. There is some risk in not paying his notice period but cross that bridge if and when he asks for it.
You don't need to pay him beyond the day he was dismissed. I don't see why you'd need to pay him for the days he didn't turn up either. Assuming he didn't have a legit excuse (holiday or sickness) then it's an unauthorised absence. Not even the civil service pay you for unauthorised absence.
As he's in breach of contract you could sue for your losses, which would at least be the difference between his labour cost and the cost of the subbie. Almost certainly not worth the bother doing that though.
I suggest you pay him up to the last day he actually turned up, plus any accumulated holiday entitlement and anything else he's due for the time he actually worked (expenses etc.) and call it done.
As he's in breach of contract you could sue for your losses, which would at least be the difference between his labour cost and the cost of the subbie. Almost certainly not worth the bother doing that though.
I suggest you pay him up to the last day he actually turned up, plus any accumulated holiday entitlement and anything else he's due for the time he actually worked (expenses etc.) and call it done.
The employee has not left, but it is not clear that you have sacked him. You have to be clear about dismissing the employee or not dismissing him. You can't just leave things hanging. Have you told the employee that he is dismissed?
It is well arguable that the employee by his conduct has repudiated the contract, but, proverbially "an unaccepted repudiation is a thing writ in water" . This means that you have to be decisive and communicate to the employee that he is dismissed.
The employee has no statutory claim for unfair dismissal as he was only with you for six months. He could in theory dispute the gross misconduct allegation and sue under common law for two weeks' net wages (equivalent to the notice period). You could in theory sue for loss caused by the employee's failure to perform the contract for a period of two weeks (he could have left lawfully after two weeks, so no longer than that), subject to mitigation of such losses. The claim would be small, and bothersome, so the game is probably not worth the candle. You should, however, send the employee a letter dismissing him and briefly explaining why.
It is well arguable that the employee by his conduct has repudiated the contract, but, proverbially "an unaccepted repudiation is a thing writ in water" . This means that you have to be decisive and communicate to the employee that he is dismissed.
The employee has no statutory claim for unfair dismissal as he was only with you for six months. He could in theory dispute the gross misconduct allegation and sue under common law for two weeks' net wages (equivalent to the notice period). You could in theory sue for loss caused by the employee's failure to perform the contract for a period of two weeks (he could have left lawfully after two weeks, so no longer than that), subject to mitigation of such losses. The claim would be small, and bothersome, so the game is probably not worth the candle. You should, however, send the employee a letter dismissing him and briefly explaining why.
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