Any Teachers on PH?
Discussion
Folks,
I'm currently teaching ESL to teenagers in a public middle school in Korea and I'm thinking of a return to the UK to do a PGCE and become a qualified teacher.
I enjoy ESL, but I want to actually BE a teacher rather than a glorified dancing monkey.
I interviewed for a Secondary PGCE in my degree subject (Geography) and had an unofficial acceptance in summer 2011, but just prior to the interview, I did an intensive summer school with primary kids here in Korea and it made me realise I prefer teaching that age group.
My questions:
Thanks in advance.
I'm currently teaching ESL to teenagers in a public middle school in Korea and I'm thinking of a return to the UK to do a PGCE and become a qualified teacher.
I enjoy ESL, but I want to actually BE a teacher rather than a glorified dancing monkey.
I interviewed for a Secondary PGCE in my degree subject (Geography) and had an unofficial acceptance in summer 2011, but just prior to the interview, I did an intensive summer school with primary kids here in Korea and it made me realise I prefer teaching that age group.
My questions:
- Regardless of the PGCE subject choice, are there any jobs out there for teachers? I'm very flexible and would move anywhere in the UK for work.
- Secondary or Primary? I prefer the younger kids for several reasons, but Primary PGCEs seem harder to get into and jobs harder to find vs. secondary.
- I know I have been able to get onto a Secondary course in the past, so is it worth going down that route (easier to get in, more jobs?) and could I change to Primary later on in my career if I wanted to?
- In the long term, I will probably want to teach overseas again. Has anyone taught overseas as a qualified/international school teacher? I'd be interested to hear your experiences about finding work, what level you taught etc.
Thanks in advance.
There are jobs but they're very, very unevenly distributed - I wouldn't want to be looking for, say, a primary job in a cushy part of London at the moment, but secondary sciences and you can take your pick. I really do mean that - a PGCE in an undersubscribed core subject - sciences, maths, geography, history - will pretty much guarantee you employment for life, radical change to curriculum etc notwithstanding.
How hard the courses are to get onto vaguely reflects how over- and under-subscribed the different jobs are.
That said there are more remote bits of the UK which are desperate for primary school teachers, but rural primary school teaching is a unique challenge - check out Ofsted reports etc for Holy Island First School for an extreme (and fascinating) example.
Nothing would absolutely stop you from changing to primary later (and having some extra experience under your belt can't hurt) but I'm not sure that you wouldn't need to do some sort of conversion of your PGCE to be qualified for it. I don't know for sure as I never got as far as qualification, health stuff cocked it up, but I'm sure the careers officer for the department you've got your offer from will know stuff like that.
The TES jobs section isn't absolutely complete but it's a pretty good guide to what's available where at the moment.
Wish I could do what you're doing - my sister did something very similar in Uganda and absolutely loved it - sounds great.
How hard the courses are to get onto vaguely reflects how over- and under-subscribed the different jobs are.
That said there are more remote bits of the UK which are desperate for primary school teachers, but rural primary school teaching is a unique challenge - check out Ofsted reports etc for Holy Island First School for an extreme (and fascinating) example.
Nothing would absolutely stop you from changing to primary later (and having some extra experience under your belt can't hurt) but I'm not sure that you wouldn't need to do some sort of conversion of your PGCE to be qualified for it. I don't know for sure as I never got as far as qualification, health stuff cocked it up, but I'm sure the careers officer for the department you've got your offer from will know stuff like that.
The TES jobs section isn't absolutely complete but it's a pretty good guide to what's available where at the moment.
Wish I could do what you're doing - my sister did something very similar in Uganda and absolutely loved it - sounds great.
Thanks, Becca.
I have had a great time in Korea, but fancy a change of location and hopefully the ability to get a better paid, more interesting job again in the future.
Holy Island looks like a very interesting school, great to read their website!
I agree that secondary would be better from a job prospects viewpoint, but I'm not sure I could teach secondary kids for the next several years. I'd rather teach primary if at all possible, hence the PGCE choice.
I believe you can change from primary to secondary, but have to do a conversion course/test of some kind first.
I have had a great time in Korea, but fancy a change of location and hopefully the ability to get a better paid, more interesting job again in the future.
Holy Island looks like a very interesting school, great to read their website!
I agree that secondary would be better from a job prospects viewpoint, but I'm not sure I could teach secondary kids for the next several years. I'd rather teach primary if at all possible, hence the PGCE choice.
I believe you can change from primary to secondary, but have to do a conversion course/test of some kind first.
Plenty of vacancies: http://www.eteach.com/
Shortage of male primary school teachers: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14748273
Shortage of Headteachers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Good luck!
Shortage of male primary school teachers: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14748273
Shortage of Headteachers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
Good luck!
A good mate of mine taught maths at a decent secondary in manchester. He left to teach english to uni students in taipei. He works 3 afternoons a week and says he has way more spare cash than he used to get in the uk and has virtually to whole summer free to travel. He has no intention to return to uk teaching.
I know a few other uk teachers in private and public schools. The ones in private have turned into the most right-on socialist whingers I know, everythings unfair and the 'system' is wrong. Does my nut in!
I know a few other uk teachers in private and public schools. The ones in private have turned into the most right-on socialist whingers I know, everythings unfair and the 'system' is wrong. Does my nut in!
v15ben said:
Folks,
I'm currently teaching ESL to teenagers in a public middle school in Korea and I'm thinking of a return to the UK to do a PGCE and become a qualified teacher.
I enjoy ESL, but I want to actually BE a teacher rather than a glorified dancing monkey.
I interviewed for a Secondary PGCE in my degree subject (Geography) and had an unofficial acceptance in summer 2011, but just prior to the interview, I did an intensive summer school with primary kids here in Korea and it made me realise I prefer teaching that age group.
My questions:
Thanks in advance.
Out of interest, they just mothballed the Torridon Primary School (which I know you drove past), as it went from 2 to 1 pupil. No moving here then! I'm currently teaching ESL to teenagers in a public middle school in Korea and I'm thinking of a return to the UK to do a PGCE and become a qualified teacher.
I enjoy ESL, but I want to actually BE a teacher rather than a glorified dancing monkey.
I interviewed for a Secondary PGCE in my degree subject (Geography) and had an unofficial acceptance in summer 2011, but just prior to the interview, I did an intensive summer school with primary kids here in Korea and it made me realise I prefer teaching that age group.
My questions:
- Regardless of the PGCE subject choice, are there any jobs out there for teachers? I'm very flexible and would move anywhere in the UK for work.
- Secondary or Primary? I prefer the younger kids for several reasons, but Primary PGCEs seem harder to get into and jobs harder to find vs. secondary.
- I know I have been able to get onto a Secondary course in the past, so is it worth going down that route (easier to get in, more jobs?) and could I change to Primary later on in my career if I wanted to?
- In the long term, I will probably want to teach overseas again. Has anyone taught overseas as a qualified/international school teacher? I'd be interested to hear your experiences about finding work, what level you taught etc.
Thanks in advance.
It can be an incredibly rewarding job, but be prepared to be blown around on the whim of Successive policies written by vain, arrogant and largely ill informed people.
Good luck.
Oh and dont mention you teach on here, you'll face an avalanche of people who know f
k all about the job slagging you off.
Good luck.
Oh and dont mention you teach on here, you'll face an avalanche of people who know f
k all about the job slagging you off.Ben - Whilst I'm not a 'school teacher', I teach in a number of primary schools teaching music independently. The schools I teach in have between 50-120 kids aged from Reception to Year 6. I also know of three people who have completed a primary PGCE in the last year, all have got permanent jobs.
I absolutely love my job (self employed, earning more than most of the waged teachers, work as many hours as I like without hardly any bureaucracy, set my own curriculum etc.) However, I doubt this is an option for your subject.
ETA - give me a shout on FB if you want to know more.
I absolutely love my job (self employed, earning more than most of the waged teachers, work as many hours as I like without hardly any bureaucracy, set my own curriculum etc.) However, I doubt this is an option for your subject.
ETA - give me a shout on FB if you want to know more.
Hi Ben,
As other have said, there are jobs out there, but it can be a bit hit and miss getting one. I left my last permanent job a year ago and initially found it quite difficult to get fixed up with any supply work. I've been doing some maternity cover since February, but that finishes next week and, as yet, despite numerous applications and a few interviews, no job for September. I teach science, so there are some vacancies, but, as an experienced teacher, I am expensive, so find I am losing out to NQT's. I have tried to get work in middle schools teaching 9-13 year olds, but keep getting knocked back due to lack of experience. Consequently, I would suggest you choose your PGCE carefully as it can be difficult to convert later. I can thoroughly recommend teaching as a career, just don't expect appreciation or fair treatment by any government or it's agencies. In addition, as previously stated teaching is a job that everyone thinks they can do better than you, but few have the courage to try. Whatever you decide, enjoy it and good luck.
As other have said, there are jobs out there, but it can be a bit hit and miss getting one. I left my last permanent job a year ago and initially found it quite difficult to get fixed up with any supply work. I've been doing some maternity cover since February, but that finishes next week and, as yet, despite numerous applications and a few interviews, no job for September. I teach science, so there are some vacancies, but, as an experienced teacher, I am expensive, so find I am losing out to NQT's. I have tried to get work in middle schools teaching 9-13 year olds, but keep getting knocked back due to lack of experience. Consequently, I would suggest you choose your PGCE carefully as it can be difficult to convert later. I can thoroughly recommend teaching as a career, just don't expect appreciation or fair treatment by any government or it's agencies. In addition, as previously stated teaching is a job that everyone thinks they can do better than you, but few have the courage to try. Whatever you decide, enjoy it and good luck.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I'll definitely drop you a message on FB, Nic and your job sounds ideal for you
I'm glad to hear there are real people who are getting primary and other teaching jobs out there at the moment. In reality, I'd probably look to head overseas somewhere in a few years, before I became an expensive, experienced teacher (in UK school eyes at least!)
I'd also agree that being a speed camera operator or banker is probably preferrable to saying you're a teacher on PH.
I'll definitely drop you a message on FB, Nic and your job sounds ideal for you
I'm glad to hear there are real people who are getting primary and other teaching jobs out there at the moment. In reality, I'd probably look to head overseas somewhere in a few years, before I became an expensive, experienced teacher (in UK school eyes at least!)
I'd also agree that being a speed camera operator or banker is probably preferrable to saying you're a teacher on PH.
ben,
was in a similar situation to you a few years back. After teaching in Taiwan and korea for a few years, I came back and started prepping for a PGCE. Got a job as a support assistant in a comprehensive school, in which I actually ended up teaching several classes?!?
anyhow, it sucked. Whereas I had been given free reign beforehand in taiwan/korea and my students had progressed fantastically, the limitations of the UK school system are beyond frustrating. Child behaviour is deplorable, the lack of talent, skill or even caring is very evident in teachers too.
try it out before buying into a PGCE, see what you think first.
was in a similar situation to you a few years back. After teaching in Taiwan and korea for a few years, I came back and started prepping for a PGCE. Got a job as a support assistant in a comprehensive school, in which I actually ended up teaching several classes?!?
anyhow, it sucked. Whereas I had been given free reign beforehand in taiwan/korea and my students had progressed fantastically, the limitations of the UK school system are beyond frustrating. Child behaviour is deplorable, the lack of talent, skill or even caring is very evident in teachers too.
try it out before buying into a PGCE, see what you think first.
Interesting stuff and I never knew there was another Far East TEFLer on PH.
I agree that free reign out here is great and there is more freedom/less responsibility overall compared to a 'proper' teacher. I'm certainly going into it with eyes open, reading plenty of blogs and will go to different primary and middle/high schools in the UK to gain some real experience and chat to the staff there.
I've heard great things about Taiwan, a bit like Korea in that few back home know much about it, but once you're there, it's great fun and an interesting place to live. If I was a single guy and hadn't found the girl I want to marry, I'd be there. I'd love to spend time in Japan too, a longer trip beckons in the future I think
I agree that free reign out here is great and there is more freedom/less responsibility overall compared to a 'proper' teacher. I'm certainly going into it with eyes open, reading plenty of blogs and will go to different primary and middle/high schools in the UK to gain some real experience and chat to the staff there.
I've heard great things about Taiwan, a bit like Korea in that few back home know much about it, but once you're there, it's great fun and an interesting place to live. If I was a single guy and hadn't found the girl I want to marry, I'd be there. I'd love to spend time in Japan too, a longer trip beckons in the future I think
Have taught English for 4 years (+ a year's PGCE, obviously) at secondary level in England.
You'll find it easier to get a secondary job, that's for sure. There are lots more opportunities for promotion and development too.
Cuts are certainly impacting on school's budgets and influencing headteacher decisionmaking. But they're mainly hitting subjects on the periphery - teach English, maths or science (especially physics) and you should never be out of work if you're any good. In fact, if you are good, you'll find that stuff happens for you.
Primary teachers on average work longer hours and have fewer opportunities for progression/management (as most of them tend to be small). That said, you have to deal with fewer incidents of aggression/belligerence/whatever, or at least it affects you in a different way. It's different for a 5-year-old to throw a tantrum than it is for a 16-year-old to shove you in the chest.
Primary jobs, in good schools at least, are like gold dust. I know one of the heads of a decent ish primary around here and they can get 50-100 applicants for a job quite comfortably. Some are garbage, naturally, but the competition is definitely there. 'Rougher' primaries are an option, but the workload there is ridiculous - an ex-girlfriend teaches in one and the number of hours she works is unreal. And they're permanently in and out of special measures, meaning the crap that tumbles downhill is near constant.
Oh, and some places in England let you do a sort of 'middle school training' course - mainly Kent/the South, I think. A friend recently finished one. As far as I know they qualify you to teach both age ranges. That could be an option for you in terms of keeping your future options open when wanting to move abroad.
Happy to help/answer any questions. Feel free to mail me.
You'll find it easier to get a secondary job, that's for sure. There are lots more opportunities for promotion and development too.
Cuts are certainly impacting on school's budgets and influencing headteacher decisionmaking. But they're mainly hitting subjects on the periphery - teach English, maths or science (especially physics) and you should never be out of work if you're any good. In fact, if you are good, you'll find that stuff happens for you.
Primary teachers on average work longer hours and have fewer opportunities for progression/management (as most of them tend to be small). That said, you have to deal with fewer incidents of aggression/belligerence/whatever, or at least it affects you in a different way. It's different for a 5-year-old to throw a tantrum than it is for a 16-year-old to shove you in the chest.
Primary jobs, in good schools at least, are like gold dust. I know one of the heads of a decent ish primary around here and they can get 50-100 applicants for a job quite comfortably. Some are garbage, naturally, but the competition is definitely there. 'Rougher' primaries are an option, but the workload there is ridiculous - an ex-girlfriend teaches in one and the number of hours she works is unreal. And they're permanently in and out of special measures, meaning the crap that tumbles downhill is near constant.
Oh, and some places in England let you do a sort of 'middle school training' course - mainly Kent/the South, I think. A friend recently finished one. As far as I know they qualify you to teach both age ranges. That could be an option for you in terms of keeping your future options open when wanting to move abroad.
Happy to help/answer any questions. Feel free to mail me.
Well, my brother is a secondary History and Politics teacher, his wife is a primary teacher. They seem ideally placed to answer your questions. I would ask them but they're on a three week cruise around the Caribbean right now... bump this thread in three weeks and I'll forward your question to them if you like.
Some very interesting stuff in that last post. I don't have any particular desire to be in a certain UK location or a supposedly 'ideal' school. I want to get a primary job and work hard at it, so hopefully that stands in my favour a little.
I've emailed you, Spud, thanks for the top advice in your post too.
I'll still be around in 3 weeks and any further advice would be great
I've emailed you, Spud, thanks for the top advice in your post too.
I'll still be around in 3 weeks and any further advice would be great
Lost_BMW said:
Re. employment chances in the primary sector - your preferred option - and the comments above, including on schools in 'dodgy' areas and special measures, I was going to suggest that a possible option that might help you to find a job in a primary school and in a county/location you might wish to live in would be to actively consider (post training) looking for a job in just such a school.
Schools in tough areas tend to have more positions available, more regularly, as some people can't cope with the demands (or because those who can and are good at their job often get promoted and move away on the basis of the obvious benefits they had brought and results they garnered) and because the number of applicants can be lower - the fear factor, or the "I can't be bothered to put up with that..." syndrome. If you want to be a teacher for the love of the job and because you want to "make a difference" then you may well feel the satisfaction of helping the children who desperately need good teaching and a good role model in their lives. In a well organised and managed school with effective leadership the issues people might worry about, such as discipline, can be a lot less of a problem than many might expect anyway, so unless the school is dire (and the evidence of that should be very easy to find) shouldn't be automatically off-putting.
Applicants for schools in an Ofsted category are often fewer than in other schools so opportunities may present here too. Schools in Special Measures can't employ a newly qualified teacher without permission from HMI/the Ed. Dept but it can be a route to a job later and one that could bring recruitment and promotional opportunities if you are demonstrably one of the 'good ones'!
Most of my work now involves helping schools through and to get out of Special Measures, or to stop them going in in the first place, and the comment above about being in and out of the category doesn't ring true in my rather extensive experience. True, there tends to be an increase in pressure and workload as termly targets for improvement will be set and checked on so there is little room for coasting, but that is usually only to get the school/teachers to operate as it should/as others do and it's the incompetent, ill equipped or careless/lazy teachers who struggle most and tend to whinge, go off on sick notes or leave. The good, caring, hard working and dedicated teachers should cope fine and benefit from the support and training opportunities that SM inevitably brings.
Schools should not (and don't) go "in and out" of Special Measures, if they did then Heads, and heads, would roll pretty quickly and the school be re-staffed with better people - often brought in on enhanced and/or temporary terms which many ambitious teachers find is a good way to gain recognition and promotion - or be 're-launched'; name only in some cases but usually new management and, increasingly, as an Academy, though that may not be an instant fix whatever Gove says! Generally schools in Special Measures come through much better than they were; often better than many others, including schools that have never been in the same circumstance, are regarded as being fine and/or are located in more salubrious areas - and on a broader, more genuine and beneficial basis than just SAT results and position in some league table.
So, in short(!) don't let the worry about finding a job or working in certain schools/areas put you off if you really are committed and have something to offer; it would be recognised and someone would want to employ a person with a genuine desire and aptitude for the job.
Excellent post !! There is a real need for more men in education , go for it !!Schools in tough areas tend to have more positions available, more regularly, as some people can't cope with the demands (or because those who can and are good at their job often get promoted and move away on the basis of the obvious benefits they had brought and results they garnered) and because the number of applicants can be lower - the fear factor, or the "I can't be bothered to put up with that..." syndrome. If you want to be a teacher for the love of the job and because you want to "make a difference" then you may well feel the satisfaction of helping the children who desperately need good teaching and a good role model in their lives. In a well organised and managed school with effective leadership the issues people might worry about, such as discipline, can be a lot less of a problem than many might expect anyway, so unless the school is dire (and the evidence of that should be very easy to find) shouldn't be automatically off-putting.
Applicants for schools in an Ofsted category are often fewer than in other schools so opportunities may present here too. Schools in Special Measures can't employ a newly qualified teacher without permission from HMI/the Ed. Dept but it can be a route to a job later and one that could bring recruitment and promotional opportunities if you are demonstrably one of the 'good ones'!
Most of my work now involves helping schools through and to get out of Special Measures, or to stop them going in in the first place, and the comment above about being in and out of the category doesn't ring true in my rather extensive experience. True, there tends to be an increase in pressure and workload as termly targets for improvement will be set and checked on so there is little room for coasting, but that is usually only to get the school/teachers to operate as it should/as others do and it's the incompetent, ill equipped or careless/lazy teachers who struggle most and tend to whinge, go off on sick notes or leave. The good, caring, hard working and dedicated teachers should cope fine and benefit from the support and training opportunities that SM inevitably brings.
Schools should not (and don't) go "in and out" of Special Measures, if they did then Heads, and heads, would roll pretty quickly and the school be re-staffed with better people - often brought in on enhanced and/or temporary terms which many ambitious teachers find is a good way to gain recognition and promotion - or be 're-launched'; name only in some cases but usually new management and, increasingly, as an Academy, though that may not be an instant fix whatever Gove says! Generally schools in Special Measures come through much better than they were; often better than many others, including schools that have never been in the same circumstance, are regarded as being fine and/or are located in more salubrious areas - and on a broader, more genuine and beneficial basis than just SAT results and position in some league table.
So, in short(!) don't let the worry about finding a job or working in certain schools/areas put you off if you really are committed and have something to offer; it would be recognised and someone would want to employ a person with a genuine desire and aptitude for the job.
Also whilst not a teacher I have some knowledge of primary schools.Recently a small primary school near me had 16 applicants for a NQT position, 4 were selected for interview and one appointed but within 2 weeks the other three candidates had all found jobs in the same LA.
Upcoming funding changes may actually mean NQT's or teachers with just a few years of experience will be a more attractive proposition than older more experienced teachers who are at the top of their pay scale and therefore expensive to hire
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