Final written warning!
Discussion
Friend of mine has received a final written warning.
He had a warning before - based upon him being given a job to do using software he was not trained in. His manager knew this, and he raised the issue. However his manager still made him do the work even though it had been flagged and he suggested that it would be better to ask somebody else to do this. He did do the work to the best if his ability but said manager then decided it wasn't up to scratch! (says more about bad management or constructive dismissal to me!). This resulted in a written warning. This written warning then went in to say it expires after x-amount if months, which have passed.
Roll on to now.
My freind asked the same manager if he could get some on the job experience in another area. He said this was fine and to ask his team Leader. However, his team leader had previously told him in a private meeting that he would never get to do this.
My friend explained what he had been told - only to be told that his team
Leader would not say this!
Cut a long story short, team leader says he didn't say this - friend says he did. Overall department manager says the team leader did not say it (even though he was not there) and says that my friend is making this difficult by calling his team leader a liar which is not acceptable! (yes it's very juvenile - my freind is also being called a liar!).
This has resulted in him receiving a "final written warning", penned by the manager - even though the previous warning had expired.
What goes on to be even more ridiculous is that when this letter was handed over (by department manager), he said that my freind should appeal this warning and that he (manager) would help him do this!!!
At this point my freind pointed out that he is being handed a warning written by the SAME PERSON who is asking him to appeal it - and offering THEIR OWN HELP to appeal a letter they have written!!!!!
Any ideas on next steps?
The company is a huge global company, with this department being based in a small sub-division. It has a "right to speak" helpline so I've suggested this as a first point of call.
G.
He had a warning before - based upon him being given a job to do using software he was not trained in. His manager knew this, and he raised the issue. However his manager still made him do the work even though it had been flagged and he suggested that it would be better to ask somebody else to do this. He did do the work to the best if his ability but said manager then decided it wasn't up to scratch! (says more about bad management or constructive dismissal to me!). This resulted in a written warning. This written warning then went in to say it expires after x-amount if months, which have passed.
Roll on to now.
My freind asked the same manager if he could get some on the job experience in another area. He said this was fine and to ask his team Leader. However, his team leader had previously told him in a private meeting that he would never get to do this.
My friend explained what he had been told - only to be told that his team
Leader would not say this!
Cut a long story short, team leader says he didn't say this - friend says he did. Overall department manager says the team leader did not say it (even though he was not there) and says that my friend is making this difficult by calling his team leader a liar which is not acceptable! (yes it's very juvenile - my freind is also being called a liar!).
This has resulted in him receiving a "final written warning", penned by the manager - even though the previous warning had expired.
What goes on to be even more ridiculous is that when this letter was handed over (by department manager), he said that my freind should appeal this warning and that he (manager) would help him do this!!!
At this point my freind pointed out that he is being handed a warning written by the SAME PERSON who is asking him to appeal it - and offering THEIR OWN HELP to appeal a letter they have written!!!!!
Any ideas on next steps?
The company is a huge global company, with this department being based in a small sub-division. It has a "right to speak" helpline so I've suggested this as a first point of call.
G.
Well first off it doesn't matter if the previous warning had expired; if a situation is serious enough it could go straight to Final Written Warning. However from the way you've told the story it sounds as if there is either a lot of info missing, or they've just royally cocked up the process. Was your friend subject to formal disciplinary hearings? Were HR involved? If either or those answers is a no, I'd go straight to your HR Dept.
Hi,
Yes there was a meeting in HR - which reiterated the above story; ie He says one thing, he says another. However my freind finds it difficult to understand how a conclusion has been reached (about anything) in relation to a private 2 person conversation.
The issue is also very strange as the point of the disagreement is based on his principles - he can't see why ge should agree that something wasn't said - when it actually was! He even said that he's not worried about being told this by hus team leader - and it's by the by... But they are relentless that he should accept what the manager is saying regardless of if it happened or not (it's a very shop floor hierarchal company with lots of well feathered nests where certain staff are favourites over others).
I learned yesterday that he has since had another meeting solely with HR who now seem to think that he may be correct!
G.
Yes there was a meeting in HR - which reiterated the above story; ie He says one thing, he says another. However my freind finds it difficult to understand how a conclusion has been reached (about anything) in relation to a private 2 person conversation.
The issue is also very strange as the point of the disagreement is based on his principles - he can't see why ge should agree that something wasn't said - when it actually was! He even said that he's not worried about being told this by hus team leader - and it's by the by... But they are relentless that he should accept what the manager is saying regardless of if it happened or not (it's a very shop floor hierarchal company with lots of well feathered nests where certain staff are favourites over others).
I learned yesterday that he has since had another meeting solely with HR who now seem to think that he may be correct!
G.
He needs to lodge an appeal. The appeal should be on the basis of procedure, facts and severity of punishment.
He then needs to go along and state his case clearly and make sure it is all on record. You may find the outcome stays the same, but the issues will all now be recorded. Get a copy of the minutes and keep them safe.
In future, all these types of conversations regarding training needs etc should be done in writing (e-mail is fine). He then has evidence to back up his version of events at a later date.
He then needs to go along and state his case clearly and make sure it is all on record. You may find the outcome stays the same, but the issues will all now be recorded. Get a copy of the minutes and keep them safe.
In future, all these types of conversations regarding training needs etc should be done in writing (e-mail is fine). He then has evidence to back up his version of events at a later date.
ttery.Gallen said:
Hi,
However my freind finds it difficult to understand how a conclusion has been reached (about anything) in relation to a private 2 person conversation.
This isn't school, in a he said/she said situation the senior person is almost always believed, and since the boss probably gave the team leader their job, they'll rarely go against them for fear of looking like an arse.However my freind finds it difficult to understand how a conclusion has been reached (about anything) in relation to a private 2 person conversation.
Personally, I'll walk before I take a written warning for job performance, but that's just me.
Something is very wrong in this story and I can't quite see how the company has given a written warning without proof that the offence took place. There would have to be witnesses or evidence to back up how this decision was made. If not then there seems to be a very clear case for appeal.
Was correct protocol followed in the investigatory meeting and the hearing meeting? What were the grounds for skipping to a final written warning? the first letter sounds like a completely unrelated incident so cannot be used as a step stone to a final written warning. it was also expired so doubly cannot be used.
I suggest a good read of the company policy on disciplinary and protocol.
Was correct protocol followed in the investigatory meeting and the hearing meeting? What were the grounds for skipping to a final written warning? the first letter sounds like a completely unrelated incident so cannot be used as a step stone to a final written warning. it was also expired so doubly cannot be used.
I suggest a good read of the company policy on disciplinary and protocol.
We are talking about a workplace, not a criminal court. Witnesses and so forth are not essential. A manager can decide to prefer one person's story over another. Ultimately, the only remedy that an employee has if unfairly given a warning is to resign and claim constructive dismissal, but that is a very high risk strategy.
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