Notice period preventing me returning to IT Contracting
Discussion
Hi Guys
I need some advice about moving on from my current job.
I've been in my current perm role for just over 2 years now, prior to this I spent 6 years contracting as an Access/ Excel developer..
I took the perm job as contracts in the above sector are quite rare and not very long, typically 3- 6 months as they are small projects. My current position offered both management experience and the opportunity to gain more SQL Server experience, which is I wanted to move in to long term..
Its not working out as I'd hoped and I'm now realising its been a waste of two years.. I joined as development/ systems manager, knowing I'd be managing a team of two, with the vision this would expand. Its actually contracted so I'm doing a lot more of the monkey work and hardly any development work now.
I'm on a months notice in this role, but I'm desperate to get back into contracting for two reasons. The main being I miss developing and working on projects, but also the daily rates at around £300/ day were enough to have fun and not having to worry about money...
Most agencies are rejecting me straight away because of my notice.. Even when telling then it could be reduced to around two weeks with unused annual leave..
So, if I was to give 1 weeks notice or less after accepting a contract, could I potentially be facing a whole s
tstorm or would I just get a bad ref?
I need some advice about moving on from my current job.
I've been in my current perm role for just over 2 years now, prior to this I spent 6 years contracting as an Access/ Excel developer..
I took the perm job as contracts in the above sector are quite rare and not very long, typically 3- 6 months as they are small projects. My current position offered both management experience and the opportunity to gain more SQL Server experience, which is I wanted to move in to long term..
Its not working out as I'd hoped and I'm now realising its been a waste of two years.. I joined as development/ systems manager, knowing I'd be managing a team of two, with the vision this would expand. Its actually contracted so I'm doing a lot more of the monkey work and hardly any development work now.
I'm on a months notice in this role, but I'm desperate to get back into contracting for two reasons. The main being I miss developing and working on projects, but also the daily rates at around £300/ day were enough to have fun and not having to worry about money...
Most agencies are rejecting me straight away because of my notice.. Even when telling then it could be reduced to around two weeks with unused annual leave..
So, if I was to give 1 weeks notice or less after accepting a contract, could I potentially be facing a whole s
tstorm or would I just get a bad ref?How about seeing out your notice, whilst finding work? I don't really see why your current employer should be left in the lurch because you have decided on a change in direction. Would you walk out on future contract employers too?
In reality I doubt they'd do much more than give you a bad reference unless you are a key element of the business, but I wouldn't have thought it would be the best kind of reputation to be acquiring.
In reality I doubt they'd do much more than give you a bad reference unless you are a key element of the business, but I wouldn't have thought it would be the best kind of reputation to be acquiring.
August isn't (traditionally) the busiest time to be finding a new contract anyway; September it (usually) picks up noticeably. Why not just do your notice period now, and start looking properly in a couple of weeks?
The pimps are bouncing you because you're up against competition who don't have to wait, and you're an unknown quantity to the client so they won't want to wait either. With the best will in the world, until you do 'something' you will remain in this limbo. Frankly, stiffing your existing employer is a bit, well, unprofessional, as seen from up here on my high horse
The pimps are bouncing you because you're up against competition who don't have to wait, and you're an unknown quantity to the client so they won't want to wait either. With the best will in the world, until you do 'something' you will remain in this limbo. Frankly, stiffing your existing employer is a bit, well, unprofessional, as seen from up here on my high horse
egomeister said:
How about seeing out your notice, whilst finding work?
I don't really see why your current employer should be left in the lurch because you have decided on a change in direction. Would you walk out on future contract employers too?
If the market was a lot better then i'd happily work my notice whilst seeking a contract, but its still uncertain.. That would be the dream scenario..I don't really see why your current employer should be left in the lurch because you have decided on a change in direction. Would you walk out on future contract employers too?
bigandclever said:
August isn't (traditionally) the busiest time to be finding a new contract anyway; September it (usually) picks up noticeably. Why not just do your notice period now, and start looking properly in a couple of weeks?
The pimps are bouncing you because you're up against competition who don't have to wait, and you're an unknown quantity to the client so they won't want to wait either. With the best will in the world, until you do 'something' you will remain in this limbo. Frankly, stiffing your existing employer is a bit, well, unprofessional, as seen from up here on my high horse
Good point about September being the ideal time to be on the market.. Yep, being in limbo is always going to be crap.. and yes its not professional.. But I dont see any other way out other than taking a leap of faith and hoping the competition isnt too strong..The pimps are bouncing you because you're up against competition who don't have to wait, and you're an unknown quantity to the client so they won't want to wait either. With the best will in the world, until you do 'something' you will remain in this limbo. Frankly, stiffing your existing employer is a bit, well, unprofessional, as seen from up here on my high horse
ewenm said:
Didn't you have the same problem when you first went contracting? That first leap (or any leap out of permie-hood) requires some commitment. If it's what you want to do again, get your notice in now and start looking for contracts in 2 weeks.
True, but when I first went contracting I was still living at home.. No risk back then..So.. is there any potential of a nasty ending if I do what I intend to do ?
I doubt your current employer would get all legal on you if you were to walk out without giving the agreed notice. However, they may make a decission about your moral fibre. Call me old fashioned, but a a deal is a deal.
You also do not know when you will come across them again or your paths will cross with someone that worked there the same time as you did.
Why not talk it through with your employer and come to an amicable agreement? They will know they are going to lose you and are likely to be far happier with short notice and an amicable and friendly handover.
pp
You also do not know when you will come across them again or your paths will cross with someone that worked there the same time as you did.
Why not talk it through with your employer and come to an amicable agreement? They will know they are going to lose you and are likely to be far happier with short notice and an amicable and friendly handover.
pp
To be honest I'd be a bit worried about the state of the market for you. When I leave a contract I start looking at 4 weeks to allow time for interviews, negotiations and onboarding. Where I am at the moment takes 2 weeks to get a userid and a laptop.
Yes companies can move quicker but if you can't get to an interview at this stage, I'd be concerned.
You could try saying you are on 2 weeks and then negotiate with your current employer re: holiday and then give a start date to the new company. Not ideal, but foot in door.
Yes companies can move quicker but if you can't get to an interview at this stage, I'd be concerned.
You could try saying you are on 2 weeks and then negotiate with your current employer re: holiday and then give a start date to the new company. Not ideal, but foot in door.
The answer is to quit now and look for jobs.
How confident are you in getting a job?
Are there REAL jobs that agents are calling you up about? Real interviews, real companies, starting soon?
It is August, and Olympic season, so almost certainly slow time, but quitting now puts you ready to start in September ..
How confident are you in getting a job?
Are there REAL jobs that agents are calling you up about? Real interviews, real companies, starting soon?
It is August, and Olympic season, so almost certainly slow time, but quitting now puts you ready to start in September ..
1. If you're not prepared to resign you are not cut out to be a contractor.
2. Tell the agents you have two weeks' notice. You have a month to burn, but virtually any contract will wait two weeks. Add another week for some (pointless) arguments over paperwork, and the rest of the time can be holiday or sick leave.
2. Tell the agents you have two weeks' notice. You have a month to burn, but virtually any contract will wait two weeks. Add another week for some (pointless) arguments over paperwork, and the rest of the time can be holiday or sick leave.
Cheers for your input guys.. Good to hear different opinions..
I'm also thinking of saving to do a Microsoft SQL Certification course at the end of the year in India.. In the hope that on return I will be able to secure some SQL contracts and i'll be open to a wider job market..
I quit contracting in Access/ Excel as I know them inside out and wanted to start working with bigger systems/ other technologies.. The long term plan was to move into SQL development. The perm job I am in offered more SQL Server exposure but it never really happened..
So, i'm faced with going back into contracting with Access/ Excel.. which is the market I wanted to leave in the first place !!
egomeister said:
Doesn't sound like you are in a position to move back to contracting without screwing your employer at the moment.
Get saving so you have a safety net, then quit in a few months time.
I think this is the probably the best thing to do.. I need a proper slush fund to get me thru a couple of months... Probably not a good idea to rush into atm, as my girlfriends contract also expires late September and she works in the reasonably small field of GIS.. Get saving so you have a safety net, then quit in a few months time.
I'm also thinking of saving to do a Microsoft SQL Certification course at the end of the year in India.. In the hope that on return I will be able to secure some SQL contracts and i'll be open to a wider job market..
Liszt said:
To be honest I'd be a bit worried about the state of the market for you. When I leave a contract I start looking at 4 weeks to allow time for interviews, negotiations and onboarding. Where I am at the moment takes 2 weeks to get a userid and a laptop.
Yes companies can move quicker but if you can't get to an interview at this stage, I'd be concerned.
You could try saying you are on 2 weeks and then negotiate with your current employer re: holiday and then give a start date to the new company. Not ideal, but foot in door.
I get the impression that the whole recruitment process has slowed down significantly since I was last in the contracting game back in early 2010.. Even with contracts it seems to be slow..Yes companies can move quicker but if you can't get to an interview at this stage, I'd be concerned.
You could try saying you are on 2 weeks and then negotiate with your current employer re: holiday and then give a start date to the new company. Not ideal, but foot in door.
essayer said:
The answer is to quit now and look for jobs.
How confident are you in getting a job?
Are there REAL jobs that agents are calling you up about? Real interviews, real companies, starting soon?
It is August, and Olympic season, so almost certainly slow time, but quitting now puts you ready to start in September ..
Yep, I agree with that.. Was never confident when I was contracting, but that was the nature of it.. As Access/ Excel is typically used in small projects for small teams, its a relatively small market.. 5- 6 weeks would pass with maybe a couple of interviews and then a phone call asking if you can start tomorrow..How confident are you in getting a job?
Are there REAL jobs that agents are calling you up about? Real interviews, real companies, starting soon?
It is August, and Olympic season, so almost certainly slow time, but quitting now puts you ready to start in September ..
I quit contracting in Access/ Excel as I know them inside out and wanted to start working with bigger systems/ other technologies.. The long term plan was to move into SQL development. The perm job I am in offered more SQL Server exposure but it never really happened..
So, i'm faced with going back into contracting with Access/ Excel.. which is the market I wanted to leave in the first place !!
as a career contractor, and someone who regularly hires for candidates a few observations.
1 - if going back into contracting you should always protect yourself with 3 to 6 months buffer to cover your basic overheads, do you have that currently?
2 - if you are good enough (and 300 / day for a access / sql developer suggests you are not at the bottom level) then i would expect the employers to be willing to wait a few weeks for a top candidate. Your challenge is getting through the recruiter on this one.
3 - It is never professional to stiff your employer by taking a hike, you rely on your referances, also its a small industry sometimes and in a years time you may find yourself looking at a new contract and facing the person that you walked out on over the interview desk at another company, he will remember!
4 - if you have 1 and 2, and are struggling to get the notice period through the recruiters, then ask about the market sentiment, who is talking about up and coming projects in Q4, if there are a few then take the gamble and hand in notice then start looking on spec.
1 - if going back into contracting you should always protect yourself with 3 to 6 months buffer to cover your basic overheads, do you have that currently?
2 - if you are good enough (and 300 / day for a access / sql developer suggests you are not at the bottom level) then i would expect the employers to be willing to wait a few weeks for a top candidate. Your challenge is getting through the recruiter on this one.
3 - It is never professional to stiff your employer by taking a hike, you rely on your referances, also its a small industry sometimes and in a years time you may find yourself looking at a new contract and facing the person that you walked out on over the interview desk at another company, he will remember!
4 - if you have 1 and 2, and are struggling to get the notice period through the recruiters, then ask about the market sentiment, who is talking about up and coming projects in Q4, if there are a few then take the gamble and hand in notice then start looking on spec.
XJSJohn said:
as a career contractor, and someone who regularly hires for candidates a few observations.
1 - if going back into contracting you should always protect yourself with 3 to 6 months buffer to cover your basic overheads, do you have that currently?
2 - if you are good enough (and 300 / day for a access / sql developer suggests you are not at the bottom level) then i would expect the employers to be willing to wait a few weeks for a top candidate. Your challenge is getting through the recruiter on this one.
3 - It is never professional to stiff your employer by taking a hike, you rely on your referances, also its a small industry sometimes and in a years time you may find yourself looking at a new contract and facing the person that you walked out on over the interview desk at another company, he will remember!
4 - if you have 1 and 2, and are struggling to get the notice period through the recruiters, then ask about the market sentiment, who is talking about up and coming projects in Q4, if there are a few then take the gamble and hand in notice then start looking on spec.
Cheers John1 - if going back into contracting you should always protect yourself with 3 to 6 months buffer to cover your basic overheads, do you have that currently?
2 - if you are good enough (and 300 / day for a access / sql developer suggests you are not at the bottom level) then i would expect the employers to be willing to wait a few weeks for a top candidate. Your challenge is getting through the recruiter on this one.
3 - It is never professional to stiff your employer by taking a hike, you rely on your referances, also its a small industry sometimes and in a years time you may find yourself looking at a new contract and facing the person that you walked out on over the interview desk at another company, he will remember!
4 - if you have 1 and 2, and are struggling to get the notice period through the recruiters, then ask about the market sentiment, who is talking about up and coming projects in Q4, if there are a few then take the gamble and hand in notice then start looking on spec.
3- 6 months buffer is what I need.. With regards to the notice period, I guess the only companies who will wait are the ones who have projects and are recruiting for a number of developers.
A recuiter called me this morning. He was up front and said the market is pretty poor at the moment.. He thinks companies are still getting their heads around the AWR legislation, which was introduced in 2010.
Have you guys been affected by AWR ?
I would say the AWR is very poorly understood overall, but it shouldn't stop new roles from being filled.
The regulations are really there to protect temporary agency workers like cleaners from unscrupulous employers and agencies; for IT contractors a few changes to contracts more than cover it.
The regulations are really there to protect temporary agency workers like cleaners from unscrupulous employers and agencies; for IT contractors a few changes to contracts more than cover it.
ThunderSmurf said:
A recuiter called me this morning. He was up front and said the market is pretty poor at the moment.. He thinks companies are still getting their heads around the AWR legislation, which was introduced in 2010.
Have you guys been affected by AWR ?
Since October 2011. If you're a proper business then AWR doesn't affect you.Have you guys been affected by AWR ?
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/employment-ma...
BIS Agency Workers Regulations said:
The definition of an agency worker excludes those who are in business on their own account where the status of the hirer is that of a client or customer of a “profession or business undertaking” (i.e. a genuine business to business relationship).
Birdster said:
Have you spoke to your employer?
My last permanent role I asked to reduce my notice period to two weeks down from four weeks.
You never know.
Nope, not yet.. Although a reduced notice period is worth considering..My last permanent role I asked to reduce my notice period to two weeks down from four weeks.
You never know.
I need to speak to some more agencies to get a feel for what the market it like at the moment.. But I get the impression its not great..
Also, I've taken the advice on board that I need a decent amount of money in reserve if a job doesn't come along straight away.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff