Terminating employment while under a learning agreement

[FastNReliable]

Hi, I've a decision to make over the coming days and weeks and would like some advice from the PH community.

I work for a company who for a number of reasons sponsored me on a course. At take up I signed a learning agreement and the course is now complete. I'm in a tie-in which requires me to refund the cost of tuition fees on a pro-rata basis if I leave during the next two years.

Under normal circumstances I would stay and honour the agreement, indeed at the time of signing my plan was to stay with the company for the foreseeable future. Things have changed however and I now have an offer on the table which will meet my financial and development needs, two areas where my current employment is lacking considerably.

The aspects which have changed in my current employment since signing are:

I've been made to change department (my original department has been wound up)
My job has changed - I no longer perform any of the duties from my original role the new job typically carries a higher salary though I haven't been offered any adjustment.
Freeze on pay increases - While this is a national issue my employer has provided these to all employees except those employed at my location.
Freeze on promotions - This aspect doesn't show any sign of changing
Freeze on training - My line of work requires that I keep up to date on new technology, the freeze on training will have an impact on my future prospects

The fees are considerable but the new job carries a higher salary. There is the moral issue though the management who originally hired me, managed me and endorsed the course have all been made redundant. I'm now working for a department which had no part in the training and to some extent seem to resent the fact that the course was offered. The learning curve of the role I have been moved into (my present job) is dropping off and the industry as a whole is in decline. The offer I have involves performing my current role in a different industry, one which my research tells me is on an upward trend.

I understand I'm likely to have to pay the tuition fees and have allowed for this in my calculations, I will pay them if I must but it will be with a strong sense of feeling ripped off as to my eyes my employer has been using the agreement to control my salary - to be fair this is an issue I considered as a risk at time of signing.

My questions are:

Am I being unreasonable by leaving?

Is the learning agreement reasonable considering the forced change in my employment?

If yes, could the learning agreement be considered a penalty? * In terms of a penalty rather than a fair avenue for my employer to recover costs

Should I stay and pay my dues even if it means missing out on a great opportunity?

How do I approach that discussion with my employer, the one where I'm able to leave without bad feeling on either side and I'm able to negotiate terms letting me out of/settling the agreement?

Edited by FastNReliable on Saturday 15th September 14:57

[happychap]

How diligent do you think your existing employer will be in chasing you for the tuition fees. The offer you have on the table, could you negotiate with them as part of taking up the offer for them to cover any cost of the fees should you have to pay, has to worth asking.

[FastNReliable]

happychap said:

How diligent do you think your existing employer will be in chasing you for the tuition fees. The offer you have on the table, could you negotiate with them as part of taking up the offer for them to cover any cost of the fees should you have to pay, has to worth asking.

I'm not sure to be honest, they have a serious staff retention issue at the moment which could affect their strategy/performance either way. Wrt the prospective employer, yeah I've thought about this but I'm not all that comfortable with asking. However if it comes down to it I suppose I should give it a try.

[elanfan]

In your resignation letter cover the issue. State you have been working at below the expected payscale for the job and that any refund of the course cost needs to be offset against that. If you want to be aggressive (to deter) any action from them state you have already taken legal advice and that you would be happy to see them in court over the issue. The likleyhood they would expend the time,effort and doubtless cost to pursue you is in my view small.

[Deva Link]

FastNReliable said:

I'm not sure to be honest, they have a serious staff retention issue at the moment which could affect their strategy/performance either way.

Do you know how anyone else who has left was treated? Organisations often state they'll reclaim training costs but rarely pursue it.

[FastNReliable]

elanfan said:

In your resignation letter cover the issue. State you have been working at below the expected payscale for the job and that any refund of the course cost needs to be offset against that. If you want to be aggressive (to deter) any action from them state you have already taken legal advice and that you would be happy to see them in court over the issue. The likleyhood they would expend the time,effort and doubtless cost to pursue you is in my view small.

Good point, thanks.

Deva Link said:

Do you know how anyone else who has left was treated? Organisations often state they'll reclaim training costs but rarely pursue it.

Can't say I do.

[Deva Link]

FastNReliable said:

Good point, thanks.

Unless you know they always ask for the training cost back I would be minded not to mention it - why put the idea into their head?

Edited by Deva Link on Sunday 16th September 16:46

[mcbook]

elanfan said:

In your resignation letter cover the issue. State you have been working at below the expected payscale for the job and that any refund of the course cost needs to be offset against that. If you want to be aggressive (to deter) any action from them state you have already taken legal advice and that you would be happy to see them in court over the issue. The likleyhood they would expend the time,effort and doubtless cost to pursue you is in my view small.

I wouldn't do any of this. All you'll do is motivate them to chase you for the money.

Best idea is to ask the new company if they'll pay for it. No harm in asking.

Don't mention it to the current employer... in my experience companies are terrible at enforcing this type of stuff and will probably give up very easily.

[ColinM50]

But surely you remember the conversation with your now redundant manager prior to you starting the course in which he told you that the company wouldn't attempt to recover the costs if you did leave?

[FastNReliable]

Deva Link said:

Unless you know they always ask for the training cost back I would be minded not to mention it - why put the idea into their head?

True.

mcbook said:

I wouldn't do any of this. All you'll do is motivate them to chase you for the money.

Best idea is to ask the new company if they'll pay for it. No harm in asking.

Don't mention it to the current employer... in my experience companies are terrible at enforcing this type of stuff and will probably give up very easily.

I think this is the approach I'm going to take.

swerni said:

OP, What were you worth before they invested the money in training you?
Are you now underpaid due to the training received?

If someone came to me with such I'll conceived tripe, any good will which may existed would be straight out the window.

I took a drop in pay when taking on my current role, the new job is the same financial package as the job I left to go to my current employer. Essentially the training was part of a package of enticements, the training being the only one to materialise. It has broadened my skill set and opened a route to improve my prospects but it's not improved my worth at this point if that makes sense? I don't agree with your statement that it's ill conceived tripe, my opinion is they have failed to deliver in a number of areas, but good point re the risk of losing goodwill.

ColinM50 said:

But surely you remember the conversation with your now redundant manager prior to you starting the course in which he told you that the company wouldn't attempt to recover the costs if you did leave?

I could also try the "I never signed that! Who forged my signature?!?!"

[Mattt]

I handled a similar situation by offering to work an extended notice period in exchange for waiving of any amounts due, everyone walked away happy.

[FastNReliable]

Mattt said:

I handled a similar situation by offering to work an extended notice period in exchange for waiving of any amounts due, everyone walked away happy.

That's food for thought. Cheers!

[FastNReliable]

Thought I'd provide an update.

I handed my notice (1 month) in and that kicked started the HR machine. The process wasn't particularly quick, part of the delay was down to my Departmental Manager who took his sweet time to make decisions when it suited him. In fact the actual agreement wasn't formally completed due to delays on their side.

The end result was I had to pay back a pro-rata portion of the total course fees. This still came to a fair wedge but the company agreed that I could pay it back in three equal monthly installments. They took the 1st from my final salary payment and I'm to arrange to make two more payments via bank transfer.

I'm now in the new job and it seems fine. I have no regrets.

[davepoth]

FastNReliable said:

Thought I'd provide an update.

I handed my notice (1 month) in and that kicked started the HR machine. The process wasn't particularly quick, part of the delay was down to my Departmental Manager who took his sweet time to make decisions when it suited him. In fact the actual agreement wasn't formally completed due to delays on their side.

The end result was I had to pay back a pro-rata portion of the total course fees. This still came to a fair wedge but the company agreed that I could pay it back in three equal monthly installments. They took the 1st from my final salary payment and I'm to arrange to make two more payments via bank transfer.

I'm now in the new job and it seems fine. I have no regrets.

Glad it worked out.

[MotorcyclesFish]

Potentially in a similar situation soon, some good advice here. Glad it all worked out OP.