Contracting in Europe ?
Discussion
Okay so it's bad enough being a Freelance Manufacturing Engineer in the UK with IR35 issues and risks, but started looking for my next contract and I say a couple at airbus in Toulouse and Hamberg.
Now apparently the rules on contracting in France and Germany and alot tigher and they tax you immediately at local rates, and won't consider dealing with a ltd company from the UK if there is only one fee earner. According the the RC, they'd pay 1 flight each way every 6 weeks and accomodation, but the hourly rate is such that if the tax is as he says you could fly back every week enyway.
Spoke to one RC and he reckons he's also got a permanent job in my field in Zurich (Only 1 hour from basel and 38 quid on easy jet from manchester. This pays a f
k load more than any permanent job I've ever heard of in the UK as a manufacturing engineer, but apparently you'd only pay 4% tax.
So really the question is: Anyone had any experience of contracting over the channel ?
Now apparently the rules on contracting in France and Germany and alot tigher and they tax you immediately at local rates, and won't consider dealing with a ltd company from the UK if there is only one fee earner. According the the RC, they'd pay 1 flight each way every 6 weeks and accomodation, but the hourly rate is such that if the tax is as he says you could fly back every week enyway.
Spoke to one RC and he reckons he's also got a permanent job in my field in Zurich (Only 1 hour from basel and 38 quid on easy jet from manchester. This pays a f
k load more than any permanent job I've ever heard of in the UK as a manufacturing engineer, but apparently you'd only pay 4% tax. So really the question is: Anyone had any experience of contracting over the channel ?
Do some reding up on HMRCs site as the low tax possibly only comes into play if you qualify as non UK resident whilst away e.g. away full tax year etc,
if not outside these rules then maybe the case you will owe UK tax (minus tax paid abroad)
Places like zurich have different tax rates in different areas I.e further in equals more tax,things cost a bit more too (lots of colleagues had little left after flights, mortgage back in UK plus rent and going out) and once you are there a certain length, health insurance is compulsory. Pensions may have to be setup and dont allow transfer to uk in many cases
Not trying to put you off, have lived and enjoyed Zurich but happy to be back in UK.
if not outside these rules then maybe the case you will owe UK tax (minus tax paid abroad)
Places like zurich have different tax rates in different areas I.e further in equals more tax,things cost a bit more too (lots of colleagues had little left after flights, mortgage back in UK plus rent and going out) and once you are there a certain length, health insurance is compulsory. Pensions may have to be setup and dont allow transfer to uk in many cases
Not trying to put you off, have lived and enjoyed Zurich but happy to be back in UK.
I have no specific experience to help, but have three recommendations:
1) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
2) Ask this question over on contractoruk.com
3) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
Also, if you've never done the Monday-Friday commute then don't underestimate the impact it will have on your personal life. You need to be a very special kind of person to enjoy it long-term.
1) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
2) Ask this question over on contractoruk.com
3) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
Also, if you've never done the Monday-Friday commute then don't underestimate the impact it will have on your personal life. You need to be a very special kind of person to enjoy it long-term.
Just my 2c's worth:
Low tax in CH is only applied if you are a local resident.
It's easy to set up as an 'Auto Entrepeneur' in France, essentially a self employed business, which means you just declare tax on what you earn, when you earn it (around 23% IIRC).
Other countries.... no idea!
Low tax in CH is only applied if you are a local resident.
It's easy to set up as an 'Auto Entrepeneur' in France, essentially a self employed business, which means you just declare tax on what you earn, when you earn it (around 23% IIRC).
Other countries.... no idea!
I have a few friends that work in Bremen, they set up ltd companies and pay between 16% and 22% tax.
That's working Monday to Friday in Germany, flying home at weekends.
I've been offered a job with them, but would be my first time contracting so I'm a bit concerned too, silly money being paid for contracting in Europe though €180k a year pre tax is hard to turn down no matter how concerned!
That's working Monday to Friday in Germany, flying home at weekends.
I've been offered a job with them, but would be my first time contracting so I'm a bit concerned too, silly money being paid for contracting in Europe though €180k a year pre tax is hard to turn down no matter how concerned!
Pod...for Zurich work give me an email, ill fill you in.
The simple rule for living/working abroad is bilateral tax agreements. If you work abroad, spend less than 90 days in the UK, etc you pay local rate tax.
The best option you have is getting your arse into Switzerland or Monaco. Once there you can basically arrange to remove yourself from UK tax affairs for the rest of your life if you wish.
The simple rule for living/working abroad is bilateral tax agreements. If you work abroad, spend less than 90 days in the UK, etc you pay local rate tax.
The best option you have is getting your arse into Switzerland or Monaco. Once there you can basically arrange to remove yourself from UK tax affairs for the rest of your life if you wish.
deckster said:
I have no specific experience to help, but have three recommendations:
1) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
2) Ask this question over on contractoruk.com
3) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
Also, if you've never done the Monday-Friday commute then don't underestimate the impact it will have on your personal life. You need to be a very special kind of person to enjoy it long-term.
Oh I never trust the RC, especially when I wiff Bulls1) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
2) Ask this question over on contractoruk.com
3) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
Also, if you've never done the Monday-Friday commute then don't underestimate the impact it will have on your personal life. You need to be a very special kind of person to enjoy it long-term.
t. I've been doing a Monday to Friday commute for 3 years, but 110 miles and 2 hours to Derby isn't the same, as having to get a flight to Zurich on a Monday morning.
New POD said:
deckster said:
I have no specific experience to help, but have three recommendations:
1) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
2) Ask this question over on contractoruk.com
3) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
Also, if you've never done the Monday-Friday commute then don't underestimate the impact it will have on your personal life. You need to be a very special kind of person to enjoy it long-term.
Oh I never trust the RC, especially when I wiff Bulls1) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
2) Ask this question over on contractoruk.com
3) Don't believe a word a recruitment agent says, particularly around ease of commute and tax
Also, if you've never done the Monday-Friday commute then don't underestimate the impact it will have on your personal life. You need to be a very special kind of person to enjoy it long-term.
t. I've been doing a Monday to Friday commute for 3 years, but 110 miles and 2 hours to Derby isn't the same, as having to get a flight to Zurich on a Monday morning.
When I was working in the Netherlands, I'd only come home every third weekend. Some of the married lads went home three weekends out of four and were permanently knackered. Up at 5 on a Monday morning, into a cab and into Luton airport by 5:40. Grab brekkie from the shop to eat on the 6:20 to Schiphol. Land at 8:20 Eu time, 30 mins to get through the airport, just miss a train, wait half an hour for the next one, an hour and a half on the train, just miss a bus, wait half an hour for the next one, into the office in time for lunch. Fortunately the boss there was very flexible, a lot of places you'll need to travel back on the Sunday. If flights aren't good then you'll not be flying home on a Friday either so it's a very short weekend with a lot of travel.
The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
spikeyhead said:
When I was working in the Netherlands, I'd only come home every third weekend. Some of the married lads went home three weekends out of four and were permanently knackered. Up at 5 on a Monday morning, into a cab and into Luton airport by 5:40. Grab brekkie from the shop to eat on the 6:20 to Schiphol. Land at 8:20 Eu time, 30 mins to get through the airport, just miss a train, wait half an hour for the next one, an hour and a half on the train, just miss a bus, wait half an hour for the next one, into the office in time for lunch. Fortunately the boss there was very flexible, a lot of places you'll need to travel back on the Sunday. If flights aren't good then you'll not be flying home on a Friday either so it's a very short weekend with a lot of travel.
The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
I can tell you exactly what the schedule is for working in Switzerland and flying out of Zurich to go home on various weekends. I either fly out Friday night or Sat morning redeye. Back on the Sunday evening, usually every other weekend.The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
DJRC said:
spikeyhead said:
When I was working in the Netherlands, I'd only come home every third weekend. Some of the married lads went home three weekends out of four and were permanently knackered. Up at 5 on a Monday morning, into a cab and into Luton airport by 5:40. Grab brekkie from the shop to eat on the 6:20 to Schiphol. Land at 8:20 Eu time, 30 mins to get through the airport, just miss a train, wait half an hour for the next one, an hour and a half on the train, just miss a bus, wait half an hour for the next one, into the office in time for lunch. Fortunately the boss there was very flexible, a lot of places you'll need to travel back on the Sunday. If flights aren't good then you'll not be flying home on a Friday either so it's a very short weekend with a lot of travel.
The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
I can tell you exactly what the schedule is for working in Switzerland and flying out of Zurich to go home on various weekends. I either fly out Friday night or Sat morning redeye. Back on the Sunday evening, usually every other weekend.The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
New POD said:
DJRC said:
spikeyhead said:
When I was working in the Netherlands, I'd only come home every third weekend. Some of the married lads went home three weekends out of four and were permanently knackered. Up at 5 on a Monday morning, into a cab and into Luton airport by 5:40. Grab brekkie from the shop to eat on the 6:20 to Schiphol. Land at 8:20 Eu time, 30 mins to get through the airport, just miss a train, wait half an hour for the next one, an hour and a half on the train, just miss a bus, wait half an hour for the next one, into the office in time for lunch. Fortunately the boss there was very flexible, a lot of places you'll need to travel back on the Sunday. If flights aren't good then you'll not be flying home on a Friday either so it's a very short weekend with a lot of travel.
The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
I can tell you exactly what the schedule is for working in Switzerland and flying out of Zurich to go home on various weekends. I either fly out Friday night or Sat morning redeye. Back on the Sunday evening, usually every other weekend.The rewards can be great, but it isn't much fun if you've family at home.
spikeyhead said:
As this is PH, I think it's only fair to balance that with 18 months pays off the mortgage and buys an Atom.
Mortgage currently owing is £163 and paying it off at £13 a month, and NO I haven't forgotten the K I'm not certain whether it'll stretch to paying the divorce costs.
Divorce? Never !!!!!!
DJRC said:
Pod, have you decided what job you are taking yet?
I pushed it a little today and asked some questions Me to RC about 9am this morning.
Dear Blood Sucking Leech (Okay I used his name)
I'm obviously interested, but I'm usually working as a consultant/contractor and try to avoid permanent jobs. But never say never. Because of family commitments I would find it impossible to relocate in the next 2 years, but there are easyjet flights from Liverpool Ringo Star to Geneva which would get me there by Lunch time on Monday and there are flights back Thursday night or Friday Lunch time, so not completely impossible.
There are obviously tax and cost implications, so I'll need to do some further investigation.
So that's a firm maybe.
New POD
And when I checked my email about 30 mins ago :
Hi Mark,
My contacts tell me they wouldn’t be that amenable to having someone regularly come out on a Monday and leave on a Friday, in part because this is new territory for them and they need the individual to be available. If full time would not be possible for you I’m not sure whether we could proceed. If they struggle with finding anyone else of course then they might be more flexible, but at this stage it’s doubtful.
Aurelio
......
Early days, as my current contract has some life in it still, but my initial feelers over the last week, suggest some interesting UK based roles at a reasonable hourly rate.
There is one that I would dearly like to get, just to get the name on my CV, but we shall see.
No panic, my fighting fund for living between contracts would allow me to sit on my arse for a year.
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