Not being paid wages.
Discussion
Good evening gentlemen and ladies.
I wonder if anyone can give sound, accurate advice on what could be a legal issue? I have a female relative who works for an accountant (reception/secretarial duties) he was chartered but had the charter taken away from him. She has not been paid wages for some considerable time and is now owed in excess of £5000. Obviously, for that role this represents quite a considerable sum. Now, I know the simple thing would be to leave and take him to court, but what she has said (which I understand) is that he could declare himself bankrupt or similar and she would still end up with nothing but could also be lumbered with costs for the case.
Can anybody advise on her best course of action? Please, only give accurate answers as this could potentially costs her more than just a job and the wages she is already owed.
Many thanks in advance.
I wonder if anyone can give sound, accurate advice on what could be a legal issue? I have a female relative who works for an accountant (reception/secretarial duties) he was chartered but had the charter taken away from him. She has not been paid wages for some considerable time and is now owed in excess of £5000. Obviously, for that role this represents quite a considerable sum. Now, I know the simple thing would be to leave and take him to court, but what she has said (which I understand) is that he could declare himself bankrupt or similar and she would still end up with nothing but could also be lumbered with costs for the case.
Can anybody advise on her best course of action? Please, only give accurate answers as this could potentially costs her more than just a job and the wages she is already owed.
Many thanks in advance.
How long has this been going on? Must be a few months?
She needs to be certain of who she is employed by - the accountant himself, or a shell company designed to limit his exposure? If she's directly employed by him, she could have a claim on his assets even if he declared bankruptcy. Since she does admin, she must have a bit of an idea as to whether anyone else is owed big money?
The current small claims limit is £5,000, so if she's got a contract showing that she's due the money she could take her boss to court pretty easily.
She needs to be certain of who she is employed by - the accountant himself, or a shell company designed to limit his exposure? If she's directly employed by him, she could have a claim on his assets even if he declared bankruptcy. Since she does admin, she must have a bit of an idea as to whether anyone else is owed big money?
The current small claims limit is £5,000, so if she's got a contract showing that she's due the money she could take her boss to court pretty easily.
A fast track claim via MCOL would cost £210 in fees (amounts £5k-£15k).
She needs to find her contract of employment and address the claim to the employer party.
With protection under employment law, she does not have to resign before making this claim. This is obviously though in a perfect world where the employer doesn't immediately hit the roof and sack her on the spot, but that also potentially leaves your friend with the redress of an ET.
She needs to find her contract of employment and address the claim to the employer party.
With protection under employment law, she does not have to resign before making this claim. This is obviously though in a perfect world where the employer doesn't immediately hit the roof and sack her on the spot, but that also potentially leaves your friend with the redress of an ET.
Google National Insurance Fund and Unpaid wages. If the employer goes bust with wages unpaid then there is a fund to pay you x amount of unpaid wages:
http://www.emplaw.co.uk/lawguide?startpage=data/03...
http://www.simpsonmillar.co.uk/news/news.aspx?news...
£5k of unpaid wages is taking the absolute p***. Your friend is being used. I don't know what the best route is regarding making a legal claim (money claim online possibly).
http://www.emplaw.co.uk/lawguide?startpage=data/03...
http://www.simpsonmillar.co.uk/news/news.aspx?news...
£5k of unpaid wages is taking the absolute p***. Your friend is being used. I don't know what the best route is regarding making a legal claim (money claim online possibly).
Thank you for the replies so far chaps.
She has been working for him for quite a few years, he had the "charter" taken around 18 months ago and has frequently failed to pay her. Every now and then he pays some, but never up to date hence why she is now owed over £5k.
She is employed by him and not another company, but although I don't know for certain, I very much doubt she has a formal contract of employment. Her problem is (possibly in part, confidence) that she feels that if she leaves she will never see the money and if she takes action now he will just declare himself bankrupt and she'd end up with nothing anyway.
If any other information would help, please let me know and I'll find out what I can.
I have offered to help with a more "direct" method, but so far she doesn't want that sort of help.
She has been working for him for quite a few years, he had the "charter" taken around 18 months ago and has frequently failed to pay her. Every now and then he pays some, but never up to date hence why she is now owed over £5k.
She is employed by him and not another company, but although I don't know for certain, I very much doubt she has a formal contract of employment. Her problem is (possibly in part, confidence) that she feels that if she leaves she will never see the money and if she takes action now he will just declare himself bankrupt and she'd end up with nothing anyway.
If any other information would help, please let me know and I'll find out what I can.
I have offered to help with a more "direct" method, but so far she doesn't want that sort of help.
Breadvan will tell me I'm wrong here but if she is a secretary there must be times when he is out and about that she has access to the method of payment/payroll system. I'd be very tempted to arrange the payment if it is what she is owed surely it cannot be theft of fraud.
I've yet to see a broke accountant (even the crap ones) - he is taking the piss and she should demand her wages forthwith.
I've yet to see a broke accountant (even the crap ones) - he is taking the piss and she should demand her wages forthwith.
There are broke accountants about!
The employer is in serious breach of contract - if she works for him direct she is in good shape so long as he has any assets.
Step 1 - write to him with a detailed breakdown of what is owing giving him 14 days to pay and making it clear she will go to the small claims courts
Step 2 - If no payment - go to the small claims court ( you can apply on line) remember to also ask for interest at county court rates which are about 8% over base
Step 3 - If she wins and he doesn't pay - get the bailiffs in - they'll take his car and TV and stuff and sell it to give her the money
In the meantime - get another job and consider taking the employer to employment tribunal for unfair constructive dismissal
The employer is in serious breach of contract - if she works for him direct she is in good shape so long as he has any assets.
Step 1 - write to him with a detailed breakdown of what is owing giving him 14 days to pay and making it clear she will go to the small claims courts
Step 2 - If no payment - go to the small claims court ( you can apply on line) remember to also ask for interest at county court rates which are about 8% over base
Step 3 - If she wins and he doesn't pay - get the bailiffs in - they'll take his car and TV and stuff and sell it to give her the money
In the meantime - get another job and consider taking the employer to employment tribunal for unfair constructive dismissal
Guys, for all the fun on here, this has been seriously great. Many thanks for your advice and help, this has been passed on and i will keep you updated as to any progress.
It goes without saying ( as he does just that!), if our paths ever cross you shall be drunk beyond your wildest dreams.
It goes without saying ( as he does just that!), if our paths ever cross you shall be drunk beyond your wildest dreams.
Having had some experience of this sort of thing i eventually found it useful to do work at home, this of course entailed having to take documentation /equipement to my home where it could be utilised, but of course it was allways brought back when the pressure of work required that the info/equipement be available in the office and when the monthly billing deadlines were due!!!.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
wijit said:
Well before she had chance to start any action he has been declared bankrupt. She's been there for many years now, does anyone know the process from here on?
No offense, but "duh". If the guy was struggling to pay her wages then it wasn't because he was being crap, it was because he was broke in the first place, losing his 'charter' should have been a clue!I wonder why he was thrown out of the Institute?
The OP states that the secretary isn't employed by a limited company. Is she 100% sure of that? What shows as the employer's name on her most recent P60?
She needs to get out of that job as quickly as she can and start proceedings to get her unpaid salary paid.
The OP states that the secretary isn't employed by a limited company. Is she 100% sure of that? What shows as the employer's name on her most recent P60?
She needs to get out of that job as quickly as she can and start proceedings to get her unpaid salary paid.
TurricanII said:
Read the links I posted above about how to make a claim from the National Insurance fund for unpaid wages.
Many thanks, for this. I'll go through it first and then go through it with her. She isn't the most self confident of people so I need to make sure she has all the facts and tools to get what she can. Thank you again.JDRoest said:
No offense, but "duh". If the guy was struggling to pay her wages then it wasn't because he was being crap, it was because he was broke in the first place, losing his 'charter' should have been a clue!
No offense, but from the outside looking in, yes it is a no-brainer. but not everything is that simple. Frankly, this sort of post is indicative of the way this forum has headed for a while now.Thanks for your valuable input.
Eric Mc said:
I wonder why he was thrown out of the Institute?
The OP states that the secretary isn't employed by a limited company. Is she 100% sure of that? What shows as the employer's name on her most recent P60?
She needs to get out of that job as quickly as she can and start proceedings to get her unpaid salary paid.
I could probably find out, but it may not really be of value now, unless you think it may be useful information?The OP states that the secretary isn't employed by a limited company. Is she 100% sure of that? What shows as the employer's name on her most recent P60?
She needs to get out of that job as quickly as she can and start proceedings to get her unpaid salary paid.
The situation is that he operated the accountants, and also another non-financial business ( a wood yard, I think). It was the second business which led to the bankruptcy. He, via the wood yard, owed money to a supplier who took the action against him as an individual and this has also had an effect on his wife. It is possible she may have been a director, thinking on that. As far as I know, the name on the last P60 was XXXX Accountants. He has said he is starting yet another business and has asked her to work for that new venture. She won't be taking him up on that offer.
Thank you again for your input, and the other guys too. It really is much appreciated.
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