Yes Yes Another graduate but hear me out...

[mm23]

I know it gets bit boring hearing from graduates who have not found employment etc etc.

My problem is a bit different, I haven't found a job but yet I been working for myself. A bit of background I have been buying and selling cars from home as you do. I am not doing to bad in what I am doing and can survive at the rate I am going, I have enough to live on.

However I did the whole academia thing got my degree albeit it wasn't the best I got a 2:2 I did a BA in Business, completing my major project on UK banking (I got a 1st in that). Now my problem lies I feel like i have just wasted time going university etc etc.

I have always wanted to get into banking yes I know its not the best job but I have really want to be a banker. I contemplated getting into banking at retail level and moving up the ladder, I am not sure how much I can progress though this way.

I would love to get into investment banking but I just don't know a way in? I don't mind starting at the bottom money isn't everything however living in London I need to be able to cover my living expenses.

Oh and while i was at Uni I worked in sales/customer service which I not the biggest fan of.

Like mentioned before i'm not dong bad at the moment. The next level if i continue is to increase investment and join forces with a uni friend who is doing the same thing I am. But i really would love to build a career tbh.

Any help will be appreciated if anyone can offer any advice.

[Pickled]

Retail banking is ste, my wife used to be in retail banking, st money and your basically a sales person, targeted to sell x amount of their products.

[Du1point8]

Investment you say...

Get an aptitude for it by going on the support desk and fixing all the crap the traders develop.

If you can put up with being in at 7:30am, leaving at 6pm, then on call most of the night for EOD for a year or two, being very good at that job, then being in the right place at the right time, whilst dropping hints that you would like to be a trader one day... Maybe just maybe... you might get a shot at it.

Few traders I know had done it the above way... but be prepared its not easy or fun.

Still interested?

[Munter]

I'm sure those in "The City" will be along once they finish lunch. But just googling "graduate scheme investment bank" turns up a number of links such as:
http://careers.jpmorgan.com/student/jpmorgan/caree...

[Du1point8]

Munter said:

I'm sure those in "The City" will be along once they finish lunch. But just googling "graduate scheme investment bank" turns up a number of links such as:
http://careers.jpmorgan.com/student/jpmorgan/caree...

If the OP has a 2.2, going on the graduate scheme is not an option.

Hell, I get turned away from jobs by HR level, for not having 2.1 or 1st and I have 12 years in banking and finance... Partly cause they dont carry on reading, then hiring manager finds the experience I have, then funnily enough I usually get phone calls once they have finished.

So HR will be OPs first issue.

[mm23]

Yes but the graduate schemes require a minimum of a 2:1 which I unfortunately don't have.


Edit to add re read what you wrote and yes you are spot on.

Edited by mm23 on Thursday 24th January 16:02

Edited by mm23 on Thursday 24th January 16:06

[Lazygraduate]

Unfortunately investment banks nowadays are notoriously difficult to get any sort of job with any progression to the front office without a strong degree and often work experience- it's not like the old days where the cleaner worked his way up to head of trading in 5years. Have you considered doing a Masters? Not sure what sort of course you could get on with a 2.2 but it might be worth a shot and really working hard to develop your network - careers events, found the banking society, whatever would all help! Also, if you do decide to go down this route, you'd be amazed at how all of the people I knew who are now working at the large IB's in front office roles almost all played sport to a high level, or directed a play, or organised a society etc... Banks love to see that you're a well rounded person as well as academically able as ultimately it's about people - after all, anyone can fiddle with a spreadsheet and write a pitch book 19hrs a day
Hope some of this helps...

[mm23]

I was discussing me doing masters with a few people last night. I am just worried that after getting a masters if i end up in the same situation I am know which is more qualifications but no job to move onto.

How hard is it really to move up the retail banking ladder??

[AyBee]

I don't want this to sound harsh, but with a 2:2 in Business you're going to find it very difficult. Unfortunately, the way the industry currently is, you have people with better qualifications than you willing to do the bottom jobs in IB in order to get in the door since the graduate hiring has slowed dramatically.

Which university did you go to and do you have any extra-curricular activities that would be a benefit? Why do you want to start in retail and which area of retail?

P.S. Please get someone to double check any letters/CVs you send out, if the grammatical errors are all over it like they are in your posts, the people hiring won't look twice.

[warnerj]

I am in exactly the same position as you, got a 2:2 in business management, there are graduate schemes out there for those grades. An example being Thames Water & Lidl, go on milkround and have a search through.

Whatever you do don't fall into sales as its hard to escape!

Getting into banking expecially investment banking may be very hard to do, apply for summer internships, no pay but you get experience and a foot in the door. Alternatively do you have any mates in the banking world that may put in a kind word and get you past the CV binning stage

[Du1point8]

mm23 said:

I was discussing me doing masters with a few people last night. I am just worried that after getting a masters if i end up in the same situation I am know which is more qualifications but no job to move onto.

How hard is it really to move up the retail banking ladder??

You have still not said what you mean by this?

To give you my overview:

2000
Graduate placement by sheer good luck and blagging it. Left to finish degree under proviso that I got at least a 2.2 since I impressed so much during placement.

2001-2005
I started in retail sector, however i worked as IT monkey, redeveloping the retail infrastructure of the retail branches and system.

2006 - 2006 (10 months)
Moved to london working in Corporate Finance as IT monkey after having a come to with previous manager blocking my career progression.

2006 - 2009
Moved to Investment banking as IT monkey due to some contacts and grabbed the bull by the horns.

2009-2011
Moved to a different investment bank as senior IT monkey bringing them a whole new trading platform.

2012-2013
Took a long break and started 2 companies, whilst they are getting up and running Im moving back into IB as an IT monkey again.

Took me since 2000 to get proper interviews with IB when I put my CV out, yet I cant get a sniff in as a trader, yet I develop/design the Equities platforms, know them inside and out, but im not qualified enough.

So what do you want to do in banking?

If cant answer that, I suggest you give up now, as you have not thought it through and just want to be an 'Investment Banker' by name.

Working for an IB does not mean we are all traders, there are dozens of jobs in a typical department, so which are you interested in?

[aww999]

I have a 1st class Engineering degree from a good uni, MSc (distinction) in a highly mathematical subject from a top uni, and despite spending 200+ hours on exquisitely tailored application forms for banking jobs, I didn't even get a single interview. The picture I got was that unless you have spent the last 3 - 5 years focussed on nothing else, and have buiolt up contacts, internships, entered the trading challenges etc, you will get nowhere. Competition for these jobs is ridiculously intense (I queued for four hours just to get into the banking careers fair at uni) and the standard of many students is unbeliveable. Around 75% of available jobs go to people who have interned. The other 25% go to people with a double-first from Oxbridge in Economics and Maths, who rowed in the olympics and built an orphanage in their free time.

The recruitment process is designed to specifically eliminate all the chancers who get to the end of their degree and think "ooh, banking, that pays well, how hard can it be?" Sorry, but you are not going to get anywhere; do yourself a favour and lower your expectations significantly. (Alternatively, read some of the blogs from banking interns online and reflect on what a lucky escape you have just had!)

[Du1point8]

aww999 said:

I have a 1st class Engineering degree from a good uni, MSc (distinction) in a highly mathematical subject from a top uni, and despite spending 200+ hours on exquisitely tailored application forms for banking jobs, I didn't even get a single interview. The picture I got was that unless you have spent the last 3 - 5 years focussed on nothing else, and have buiolt up contacts, internships, entered the trading challenges etc, you will get nowhere. Competition for these jobs is ridiculously intense (I queued for four hours just to get into the banking careers fair at uni) and the standard of many students is unbeliveable. Around 75% of available jobs go to people who have interned. The other 25% go to people with a double-first from Oxbridge in Economics and Maths, who rowed in the olympics and built an orphanage in their free time.

The recruitment process is designed to specifically eliminate all the chancers who get to the end of their degree and think "ooh, banking, that pays well, how hard can it be?" Sorry, but you are not going to get anywhere; do yourself a favour and lower your expectations significantly. (Alternatively, read some of the blogs from banking interns online and reflect on what a lucky escape you have just had!)

wrong way to do it...

Go for a 3rd party supplier of support personnel, if you can sign on their books, then you can gain experience as a support person and move into the banking world that way, you dont need to go direct.

Same with IT personnel, people can go for a software warehouse/consultancy firm that works with IBs and gain the experience that way.

[fido]

Du1point8 said:

Same with IT personnel, people can go for a software warehouse/consultancy firm that works with IBs and gain the experience that way.

I've heard of people moving the other way, but not from a third-party shop to a Bank. Maybe if you are a BA or Sales, but as a code monkey - good luck with that. They also tend to lack the 'special' interpersonal skills as well which you need in an IB environment.

[Du1point8]

fido said:

Du1point8 said:

Same with IT personnel, people can go for a software warehouse/consultancy firm that works with IBs and gain the experience that way.

I've heard of people moving the other way, but not from a third-party shop to a Bank. Maybe if you are a BA or Sales, but as a code monkey - good luck with that. They also tend to lack the 'special' interpersonal skills as well which you need in an IB environment.

I know a few that have gone both ways... Im looking at both, going back to IB, joining dedicated software warehouse or consultancy and working onsite... just weighing up the options whilst Im immobilised at the moment.

Yup... thats what makes it fun for me to go for the jobs now I have finished setting up the companies...

Put me with the business and Im happy to talk the high level overviews, estimations or weekly reports, most of which scare the fk out of IT monkeys.

I did get a baptism of fire I developed/designed a trading platform, which meant for 12 months I was sat with the business gaining their respect/confidence as I had no BA at the time.

Bad side was I hate to spend 3+ hours in meetings every day, then get quizzed on the progress of the new development, which was not progressing as quickly as expected since I was in meetings... with them... working on their 'fantastic new ideas' that had to be in the system... every day.

[kiethton]

I guess I can be a little help here.....

It is do-able....I graduated in 2010 (from Reading with a 2:1) in management and business Admin and again wanted to get into Banking/insurance. Owing to family illness I took a job to see me through and worked for just over a year for a new start up leisure company being set up by the CEO of my student weekend job (mini golf).

After a year or so and the curcumstances resolving themselves I posted up a CV on reed and started browsing Michael Page. I applied for the one job (where I am currently) doing property banking and was lucky to be offered a Job after a single 30 min interview, not even a telephone interview.

My advice would be to polish your CV (include any personal achievements/extra curricular activities of relevance (team working/enterprise) and list it on Reed - refreshing every 24 hours to keep you near the top. Also look at the 'big 4' schemes - people often move from there (restructuring) into banks when qualified and apply for jobs but tailor your CV/cover letter to each.

It may be worth doing office temping/admin for a little to show that you have some experience in an office environment (£10-£13 per hour in London) - some friends from uni do this even after graduating 3 years ago as it's very flexible and gives them the money they need (not materialistic and live at home).

Send me a PM....

[Landlord]

Some questions to ask yourself;

Why do you want to go in to banking? What do you see it giving you?

In what part of the investment bank do you want to work? There's lots and lots. IT, Research, Sales, Trading, Quant, Risk etc. I think if you can work this out, research it and approach HR in a targeted way - including why you want to work in that area and what you feel you could offer - you'll have more chance of not being ignored. Unfortunately for you, a grad-scheme would expose you to pretty much all of the areas, allowing you to make your choice through experience, rather than just what you feel/think.

It is a dog-eat-dog industry with plenty of people with far better paper qualifications than you. Your letter to HR is going to have to be awesome.

That said, I wouldn't personally recommend a career in banking. It attracts s of the highest order. I've worked in banks for nigh on 15 years.

[Landlord]

One other option might be to approach the big consultancy firms, Accenture etc. with the purpose of consulting for them in a banking environment. After a while you'll have the experience to move on from the pound-of-flesh-and-then-some consultancies to a pound-of-flesh bank.

I'd imagine the consultancies would be more ready to take you on with a lower degree class and less direct experience.

I've have no experience of this avenue, though.

[Gargamel]

There are a number of industrial firms or commodity trading house that have lve trading desks and occasionally look for fresh meat.

Cargill for example, British Sugar, ABF, General Mills and some others. Trying looking at gaining commodity tradeing experience.

Or look at Forex traders (though beware there are some real iffy outfits in this)

[Landlord]

Gargamel said:

There are a number of industrial firms or commodity trading house that have lve trading desks and occasionally look for fresh meat.

Cargill for example, British Sugar, ABF, General Mills and some others. Trying looking at gaining commodity tradeing experience.

Or look at Forex traders (though beware there are some real iffy outfits in this)

This is a very option, if you'll pardon the geeky, banking pun.