Recruiter's 'introductions'
Discussion
I work in a sector where there is quite a bit of movement between firms and is also fairly closed environment i.e. everyone knows everyone else.
Now I speak fairly regularly with the recruitment agent that brought me into my current role 5 years ago. When we spoke earlier this year I indicated that I might consider moving on and she therefore took the bit between the teeth and came back saying she had spoken to a few individuals (all of whom I know) and has pencilled in a couple of meetings.
I met with the first of these the other side of the weekend and whilst there isn't a specific role there would be the business case to bring me on board. One thing there were a bit surprised by is that I didn't approach them directly to sound them out and came via an agency (which will cost them a healthy five figure sum).
My questions are therefore has the recruitment bod actually introduced me? It's someone I've known for years and there is no specific role. If they have introduced me how long does this 'introduction' last for? If I decided I didn't actually want to move now but then ended up moving in 12 months or so would they still have the claim to a fee?
Now I speak fairly regularly with the recruitment agent that brought me into my current role 5 years ago. When we spoke earlier this year I indicated that I might consider moving on and she therefore took the bit between the teeth and came back saying she had spoken to a few individuals (all of whom I know) and has pencilled in a couple of meetings.
I met with the first of these the other side of the weekend and whilst there isn't a specific role there would be the business case to bring me on board. One thing there were a bit surprised by is that I didn't approach them directly to sound them out and came via an agency (which will cost them a healthy five figure sum).
My questions are therefore has the recruitment bod actually introduced me? It's someone I've known for years and there is no specific role. If they have introduced me how long does this 'introduction' last for? If I decided I didn't actually want to move now but then ended up moving in 12 months or so would they still have the claim to a fee?
mx stu said:
My questions are therefore has the recruitment bod actually introduced me? It's someone I've known for years and there is no specific role. If they have introduced me how long does this 'introduction' last for? If I decided I didn't actually want to move now but then ended up moving in 12 months or so would they still have the claim to a fee?
If you haven't signed some kind of agreement with the recruitment agent, and if the employers haven't either then I guess the answers will depend on who you ask. Recruitment agents will have one view, and other people will have a different one. I would have thought that a year would be well outside any reasonable claim the RA might think she had.I would have through the agency would have some kind of contract/agreement in place with the company to say that they could not employ you for X period of time after the 'introduction', otherwise the company could tell the agency there was no suitable job for you at the time but then find a job a couple of weeks/months later and not have to pay their fees. Also depends if the agency would ever find out if the other company employed you afterwards
Varies between agencies but 3-6 months is the normal. An agency would have a hard job justifying in court and terms which were longer than that.
WHy do ou actually care though? The company is happy to pay the fee and just because you vaguely know someone it doesnt mean you would have phoned them for yourself.
What you miss is that teh agent has either had to phone dozens and dozens of people to find the two or three that would be interested or has used years of experience to know instinctively where you belong. Why resent him or her that?
WHy do ou actually care though? The company is happy to pay the fee and just because you vaguely know someone it doesnt mean you would have phoned them for yourself.
What you miss is that teh agent has either had to phone dozens and dozens of people to find the two or three that would be interested or has used years of experience to know instinctively where you belong. Why resent him or her that?
Edited by blindswelledrat on Monday 18th March 13:09
I'll answer your first question as you've pretty much already answered it in your description anyway. You mention that the agent had set up meetings for you and that the client asked why you didn't approach them directly is an introduction (whether you know them or not).
In the instance of you going to them directly when there is a tangeable role in the future it depends on what Terms the Agent has with the Client although usually around 3-6 months as has been mentioned before.
Dont try and "backdoor" it. They will find out I promise.
In the instance of you going to them directly when there is a tangeable role in the future it depends on what Terms the Agent has with the Client although usually around 3-6 months as has been mentioned before.
Dont try and "backdoor" it. They will find out I promise.
Usually the recruiter will have sent their Terms to the Client which indicate that request of an interview or meeting indicate acceptance of the terms, regardless of whether they have signed anything. This usually lasts for 6 months, any longer is very difficult to justify in court.
As above though, why would you want to backdoor the agent? Yes you could have gone directly but you didn't. Would you have had those meetings and would they have worked to create a role for you if the recruiter hadn't done hard work to set it up in the first place?
The Client pays the fee, not yourself. And the Client would've been well aware of that prior to setting up a meeting. Yes they could just wait 6 months and hire you direct, but I would suggest that would reduce the chances of that recruiter helping you or the client in future.
As above though, why would you want to backdoor the agent? Yes you could have gone directly but you didn't. Would you have had those meetings and would they have worked to create a role for you if the recruiter hadn't done hard work to set it up in the first place?
The Client pays the fee, not yourself. And the Client would've been well aware of that prior to setting up a meeting. Yes they could just wait 6 months and hire you direct, but I would suggest that would reduce the chances of that recruiter helping you or the client in future.
topless_mx5 said:
Yes they could just wait 6 months and hire you direct, but I would suggest that would reduce the chances of that recruiter helping you or the client in future.
I would suggest that there are a) plenty of other recruiters and b) the chance of a fee will far outweigh any annoyance the recruiter may feel about a previous opportunity. IOW, recruiters do it for money, as as long as the chance of getting some, they will be as keen as mustard.singlecoil said:
I b) the chance of a fee will far outweigh any annoyance the recruiter may feel about a previous opportunity. IOW, recruiters do it for money, as as long as the chance of getting some, they will be as keen as mustard.
Not so.He will be seen as a complete waste of time.
If a recruiter can get the role, then they would spend thier energy trying to find a different person to fill that role than risking someone who is deliberately and irrationally going to try and sabotage it for them.
Further, in many cases a candidate will be seen as disloyal and dishonest for trying to engineer this backdoor route. FOr senior positions doing this could easily make an employer change thier mind based on teh unprofessional conduct.
blindswelledrat said:
singlecoil said:
I b) the chance of a fee will far outweigh any annoyance the recruiter may feel about a previous opportunity. IOW, recruiters do it for money, as as long as the chance of getting some, they will be as keen as mustard.
Not so.He will be seen as a complete waste of time.
If a recruiter can get the role, then they would spend thier energy trying to find a different person to fill that role than risking someone who is deliberately and irrationally going to try and sabotage it for them.
Further, in many cases a candidate will be seen as disloyal and dishonest for trying to engineer this backdoor route. FOr senior positions doing this could easily make an employer change thier mind based on teh unprofessional conduct.
As has been pointed out, it's the client that pays, not the employee. OP has no interest in the employer avoiding the fees. So were those fees to be avoided, it would be the client's fault, and next time the client has a role to fill, there will be plenty of recruiters queuing up for the chance at the fees.
singlecoil said:
Yes so.
As has been pointed out, it's the client that pays, not the employee. OP has no interest in the employer avoiding the fees. So were those fees to be avoided, it would be the client's fault, and next time the client has a role to fill, there will be plenty of recruiters queuing up for the chance at the fees.
Singlecoil, you're a carpenter and Ive been in recruitment for 15 years.As has been pointed out, it's the client that pays, not the employee. OP has no interest in the employer avoiding the fees. So were those fees to be avoided, it would be the client's fault, and next time the client has a role to fill, there will be plenty of recruiters queuing up for the chance at the fees.
I am right and you are wrong.
blindswelledrat said:
singlecoil said:
Yes so.
As has been pointed out, it's the client that pays, not the employee. OP has no interest in the employer avoiding the fees. So were those fees to be avoided, it would be the client's fault, and next time the client has a role to fill, there will be plenty of recruiters queuing up for the chance at the fees.
Singlecoil, you're a carpenter and Ive been in recruitment for 15 years.As has been pointed out, it's the client that pays, not the employee. OP has no interest in the employer avoiding the fees. So were those fees to be avoided, it would be the client's fault, and next time the client has a role to fill, there will be plenty of recruiters queuing up for the chance at the fees.
I am right and you are wrong.
It's like me arguing with you about how best to stick two bits of wood together because I've had carpenters working in my house before.
Just learn to understand that you are not always the font of knowledge on everything and just sometimes, occasionally people are better placed than you to express opinions on things.
Just learn to understand that you are not always the font of knowledge on everything and just sometimes, occasionally people are better placed than you to express opinions on things.
Interesting points.
For general background we are talking about a role in a large professional firm who pay these kinds of fees every day of the week and who produce enough vacancies that if said recruiter missed out on one then they'd have to avoid bearing a grudge and move on to the next.
That being said I wouldn't want to offend the recruiter as she is very good at her job and likely to be very useful over the life of my career, just in hindsight has been very quick off the mark this time. It's unlikely that I'll actually make the move in the next 12 months and, I suppose, my query was more of the case that if I didn't move till next year would she still have a claim to a fee.
For general background we are talking about a role in a large professional firm who pay these kinds of fees every day of the week and who produce enough vacancies that if said recruiter missed out on one then they'd have to avoid bearing a grudge and move on to the next.
That being said I wouldn't want to offend the recruiter as she is very good at her job and likely to be very useful over the life of my career, just in hindsight has been very quick off the mark this time. It's unlikely that I'll actually make the move in the next 12 months and, I suppose, my query was more of the case that if I didn't move till next year would she still have a claim to a fee.
We're I the recruiter in this situation, I think I would feel I had earned me fee. You asked them to set up some interest for you out in other firms and the delivered to the brief.
Ok you also have a network, but you didn't take it to your network directly you went to a recruiter, surely you did so with a reasonable expectation they would need to make a commercial return.
I am guessing you are either legal or accountancy, you probably charge by the hour? recruiters charge only on success for this type of work. would you be happy if someone tried to go behind your back ?
Ok you also have a network, but you didn't take it to your network directly you went to a recruiter, surely you did so with a reasonable expectation they would need to make a commercial return.
I am guessing you are either legal or accountancy, you probably charge by the hour? recruiters charge only on success for this type of work. would you be happy if someone tried to go behind your back ?
Pickled Piper said:
Did you not advise the recruiter that you already knew these people?
pp
PP, I'm guessing Stu knew them when mentioned, but probably mot quite well enough to say:pp
"Don't worry I know John, I'll give him a call and sort it out myself as we're old friends"
In this instance, I'd let it slide with the proviso of him being a decent chap and getting John to give me the next couple of roles on exclusive that come up for letting this slide in the short term.
In theory.
singlecoil said:
So were those fees to be avoided, it would be the client's fault, and next time the client has a role to fill, there will be plenty of recruiters queuing up for the chance at the fees.
Yes but would they be any good? By the sounds of it this recruiter has done a good job by getting a candidate over that they are interested in.There are an awful lot of recruiters out there, but there is also a lot of s
t out there too. A poor recruiter can waste valuable client time and be the difference between a successful project and a failure, I've seen it many a time.Edited by topless_mx5 on Tuesday 19th March 21:50
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