How to turn down promotion without ruining prospects?

[mini1380cc]

My director has just shown me a draft JD (im the only one to see it so far)for a managerial role that he suggests I think about. Without actually saying it I know he wants me in this role which surprises me as I'm not management material and I don't think the staff in that division would respect me as a superior as I'm significantly younger and less experienced.



So how do I turn this down without ruining future chances? The director has already said that you only get a few chances before you are not considered in future opportunities.

This feels like a lose lose for me.

[Anonamoose]

Why not just explain to your boss the way you have here?

Do people really have such bad managers that they can not speak to them as people? Surely he would appreciate your honesty and not wasting his time by applying etc.

[Terminator X]

Talk all you like, it will go down as a black mark imho.

TX.

[edc]

What is 'management material'?

Forget age too. Generalising, but the best managers in my business are arguably the youngest ones. I have always been the youngest on my management teams by 10 years or more in most instances! It reads as though you are looking at all the negatives rather than any of the positives.

[Anonamoose]

Terminator X said:

Talk all you like, it will go down as a black mark imho.

TX.

Why? I'm a manager, have had my own company, if any of my staff had ever come to me and said the same I would appreciate their honesty, I wouldn't immediately think well f*ck them, that's it.

I just can not understand that kind of mindset.

Edited by Anonamoose on Monday 20th May 18:34

[Terminator X]

Just talking from experience having worked as a Director in a large company myself you will get a reputation if you turn down a few promotions and they will dry up after that. For the record there is nowt wrong with working hard and doing an honest days work whilst not pursuing promotions however you need to acknowledge that they won't ask more than a few times.

TX.

[mini1380cc]

Anonamoose said:

Why? I'm a manager, have had my own company, if any of my staff had ever come to me and said the same I would appreciate their honesty, I wouldn't immediately think well f*ck them, that's it.

I just can not understand that kind of mindset.

Edited by Anonamoose on Monday 20th May 18:34

As a manager would you still see that person as Ambitious? Would you still hold them in high regard if they politely refused?

[mini1380cc]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Possibly however this particular position has been filled twice in the last year. The first guy was genuinely excellent at what he done, yet he was "advised" to take early retirement due to making life hard for higher management. In reality he was simply looking out for his team, building empires to protect jobs. The second guy lasted 6 months before bailing out, again he was a highly skilled, highly experience person that has flourished in every other role.

So this just feels like a poisoned chalice. Unfortunately the MD will have his own motives as much as he may see potential in me.

[mondeoman]

mini1380cc said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Possibly however this particular position has been filled twice in the last year. The first guy was genuinely excellent at what he done, yet he was "advised" to take early retirement due to making life hard for higher management. In reality he was simply looking out for his team,[/b] building empires to protect jobs [/b]. The second guy lasted 6 months before bailing out, again he was a highly skilled, highly experience person that has flourished in every other role.

So this just feels like a poisoned chalice. Unfortunately the MD will have his own motives as much as he may see potential in me.

Might I suggest he went about it the wrong way, upper management don't like empire builders. But I digress.

As others have said, think long and hard about the role and what it could offer in the future if you get it right: you've now seen two people fail, so learn from what they did wrong. Could be a golden opportunity.

"Better to try and fail than never to have tried"

[Engineer1]

If the previous Managers have been Managed out try and go in with a safety net of some discription or see your boss and explain that you like working for the company and that role seems to be a poison chalice seeing as it has changed hands twice in a year, you don't want the promotion to be your ticket out of the company.

[Dr Jekyll]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This +999

Age is irrelevant. Experience isn't necessarily an issue providing you don't pull rank inappropriately.

[Anonamoose]

mini1380cc said:

Anonamoose said:

Why? I'm a manager, have had my own company, if any of my staff had ever come to me and said the same I would appreciate their honesty, I wouldn't immediately think well f*ck them, that's it.

I just can not understand that kind of mindset.

Edited by Anonamoose on Monday 20th May 18:34

As a manager would you still see that person as Ambitious? Would you still hold them in high regard if they politely refused?

Yes I would, I'd rather put someone competent, who wants the position, in the role rather than someone who doesn't want it, can't handle it and ends up making them and their direct reports unhappy. But then I'm a woman so I guess I fail on the powerfully built director bit

In light of the OP's other post it sounds like they want someone young that they can manipulate. I see it all the time, most senior managers want 'yes men'

[mini1380cc]

Anonamoose said:

Yes I would, I'd rather put someone competent, who wants the position, in the role rather than someone who doesn't want it, can't handle it and ends up making them and their direct reports unhappy. But then I'm a woman so I guess I fail on the powerfully built director bit

In light of the OP's other post it sounds like they want someone young that they can manipulate. I see it all the time, most senior managers want 'yes men'

This sort of fits as I have to admit I have been his puppet for a while. Although since I've given it an initial shrug he has been ignoring me. IT personnel can be so childish.

Anyways I've since found out that the pay grade for this role will be less than before and that is why they are trying to get me in as other managers wouldnt be interested in the hassle of this problem team for so little money ( sp little to them anyway). I've also had a confidential chat with another manager in different division who knows me well, he reckons this new role could break me as my first managerial role. He also has a new role coming up but wasn't allowed to publicise it yet. He is saying that if I were interested he would be keen to take me on. So the future isn't too bleak.

I should have explained why the initlal role was so daunting. I would be going from no management experience to managing a team of highly experienced IT staff who have little respect for my background (consultancy). I would also be on my own with no peers to help me find my feet since this team has no connection to the main business. On top of that the business itself is going through a large infrastructure change which will rely on this role. So it's definitely not a role where I would be taking over the mantle and simply keeping it ticking. Plenty sleepless nights for just a few grand more.

[slipstream 1985]

being a young manager isn't a problem. Comming into an established team of older more experienced staff can be a very difficult issue to deal with.

[New POD]

Anonamoose said:

Terminator X said:

Talk all you like, it will go down as a black mark imho.

TX.

Why? I'm a manager, have had my own company, if any of my staff had ever come to me and said the same I would appreciate their honesty, I wouldn't immediately think well f*ck them, that's it.

I just can not understand that kind of mindset.

Edited by Anonamoose on Monday 20th May 18:34

Couldn't agree more. In fact what I want is people who don't realise that with nurture and training they would be bloody good at managing people.

The world is full of managers who got the job because of their ego, so the OP's lack of ego, and extreme caution is refreshing.

What I'd ask him to do would be to identify those areas he thinks would need improvement, and then spend 6 months giving him experience and coaching in tasks designed to challenge those areas.

I think his approach should be to say "I want it but I'm not ready, so I'd like to work on a development plan with you that leads to it in 6 or 9 months"

[shtu]

mini1380cc said:

I should have explained why the initlal role was so daunting. I would be going from no management experience to managing a team of highly experienced IT staff who have little respect for my background (consultancy). I would also be on my own with no peers to help me find my feet since this team has no connection to the main business. On top of that the business itself is going through a large infrastructure change which will rely on this role.

Would this change have anything to do with reducing the size\influence\independence of that team in the longer term?

Sounds to me like you are being given an unwinnable task, you either discover this team is actually vital and useful and defend them = get boot, or go in and do upper managment's bidding as a hired gun = life made hell by uncooperative team, miss targets set by management, get boot.

I think I'd give it a miss and pursue the other opportunity.