Tribunal Experience
Discussion
Does anyone have any tribunal experience ?
I have today exchanged statements and bundle for a tribunal that is in court in a fortnight, specifically I would appreciate an idea as to the length of a witness statement and the size of the bundle - I seem to be drowning in a sea of paperwork !
Cheers all.
I have today exchanged statements and bundle for a tribunal that is in court in a fortnight, specifically I would appreciate an idea as to the length of a witness statement and the size of the bundle - I seem to be drowning in a sea of paperwork !
Cheers all.
Do not worry if it is long. The one I produced for my tribunal was 25,000 words long. But, there was a lot of evidence/events to cover. My original draft was about 15k words long, but my counsel added to this. My trial bundle consisted of 4 lever arch files of papers, about 1,600 pages.
But, as said, it can also be short and to the point.
If any of the following is teaching you to suck eggs, I do apologise.
Make sure your witness statement covers all the pertinent facts of your case.
If you refer to a document from the bundle, make sure the page number is included in your statement.
Do not refer to documents that are not in the bundle; sounds obvious but it is easy to do when drafting the statement.
Do not include the kitchen sink, my counsel told me that it can alienate the judge if you include trivial issues.
Make sure it is structured and in chronological order, i.e. it reads like it happened.
Do not get hung up on including legal points/cases. Use these for your summation.
Finish the statement with a punchy summary of your case.
If you can, get a person with a very critical eye to read it and suggest changes. This is how the opposition will view it. They will try to find holes in your evidence and use these during cross examination. And, be under no illusion, the gloves can come off during cross examination.
But, as said, it can also be short and to the point.
If any of the following is teaching you to suck eggs, I do apologise.
Make sure your witness statement covers all the pertinent facts of your case.
If you refer to a document from the bundle, make sure the page number is included in your statement.
Do not refer to documents that are not in the bundle; sounds obvious but it is easy to do when drafting the statement.
Do not include the kitchen sink, my counsel told me that it can alienate the judge if you include trivial issues.
Make sure it is structured and in chronological order, i.e. it reads like it happened.
Do not get hung up on including legal points/cases. Use these for your summation.
Finish the statement with a punchy summary of your case.
If you can, get a person with a very critical eye to read it and suggest changes. This is how the opposition will view it. They will try to find holes in your evidence and use these during cross examination. And, be under no illusion, the gloves can come off during cross examination.
uknick makes some good points.
In my case I had a ring binder that was around 2" thick, it contained every piece of correspondance from the respondent and his legal team along with many other random bits and bobs that were all used in one way or another. The respondent on the other hand turned up with a polly wallet that contained about 5 pieces of paper, no index or summary. I have a feeling he thought I was going to back down and prepared his evidence the night before the hearing. The judge picked up on his evidence and really was not impressed, especially when he put him on the spot about something and he had to use my evidence to answer the question which dropped him in it.
Also don't jump to answer questions - think before you respond as things do get a bit heated.
I can't really think of anything else although I wish you all the best.
In my case I had a ring binder that was around 2" thick, it contained every piece of correspondance from the respondent and his legal team along with many other random bits and bobs that were all used in one way or another. The respondent on the other hand turned up with a polly wallet that contained about 5 pieces of paper, no index or summary. I have a feeling he thought I was going to back down and prepared his evidence the night before the hearing. The judge picked up on his evidence and really was not impressed, especially when he put him on the spot about something and he had to use my evidence to answer the question which dropped him in it.
Also don't jump to answer questions - think before you respond as things do get a bit heated.
I can't really think of anything else although I wish you all the best.
Coneyhurst Blue said:
Thank you for the coments - uknick and AGK.
However I am sitting on the other table, yet I guess the points raised are as useful to the employer as the employee.
550+ pages in the bundle and a witness statement of over 70 pages.
Cheers.
Have you retained professional advice? (sorry, I'm assuming that you are the employer)However I am sitting on the other table, yet I guess the points raised are as useful to the employer as the employee.
550+ pages in the bundle and a witness statement of over 70 pages.
Cheers.
My Tribunal experience, as an aggrieved employee, was a bit rubbish.
To cut a long story short, I resigned a post as a recruitment consultant, and left the company. Having read my contract ahead of leaving, I was happy that I could leave without any problems.
Once I had left, my employer paid me the final month's wages, less 3 grand's worth of commission. My flabber was truly gasted, and upon challenging the final payslip, my employer pointed to a very vaguely and tenuously worded clause in my contract which kinda said I might not be entitled to receive my final month's commission should I leave. But that is not how I, or the legal guy at the CAB read it.
Frustratingly, I could have by-passed this clause by just going off sick for my last month's employment! But as someone who is honest and 'plays the white man' I would not have done so. Hence, my honesty put me in a situation that It seemed like I was now going to forego my final month's sales commission (unbelievably morally out of order - after all, I had earned my company 15 grand in sales, so leaving or not leaving, my cut was due to me, no?!)
Anyway, after further legal consultation of my contract, and receiving nothing more than solid backup and support that I had a good case, that my contract was ambiguous, and that I had earned that commission whatever happens - I went to tribunal.
The tribunal judge could not have been more flippant and un-professional, in my opinion. Annoyingly, the judgement was down to nothing more than his personal discretion and decision, and after no more than 10 minutes' review of the paperwork presented and my employment contract, he unilaterally decided that the clause in my contract was fair and legal after all, and that I had no case.
Even when I challenged him and pointed out that my work had earned the company 15 grand that month and hence surely I was due my cut of that, he was not bothered at all, and just cut me off with 'that's my decision, it's final, tough luck, bugger off...'
To me, the tribunal was a bunch of arse, and was at the whim of just one man on the day. Surely these things should be put to a panel of people, in the same way that a court case is put to a jewry???
To cut a long story short, I resigned a post as a recruitment consultant, and left the company. Having read my contract ahead of leaving, I was happy that I could leave without any problems.
Once I had left, my employer paid me the final month's wages, less 3 grand's worth of commission. My flabber was truly gasted, and upon challenging the final payslip, my employer pointed to a very vaguely and tenuously worded clause in my contract which kinda said I might not be entitled to receive my final month's commission should I leave. But that is not how I, or the legal guy at the CAB read it.
Frustratingly, I could have by-passed this clause by just going off sick for my last month's employment! But as someone who is honest and 'plays the white man' I would not have done so. Hence, my honesty put me in a situation that It seemed like I was now going to forego my final month's sales commission (unbelievably morally out of order - after all, I had earned my company 15 grand in sales, so leaving or not leaving, my cut was due to me, no?!)
Anyway, after further legal consultation of my contract, and receiving nothing more than solid backup and support that I had a good case, that my contract was ambiguous, and that I had earned that commission whatever happens - I went to tribunal.
The tribunal judge could not have been more flippant and un-professional, in my opinion. Annoyingly, the judgement was down to nothing more than his personal discretion and decision, and after no more than 10 minutes' review of the paperwork presented and my employment contract, he unilaterally decided that the clause in my contract was fair and legal after all, and that I had no case.
Even when I challenged him and pointed out that my work had earned the company 15 grand that month and hence surely I was due my cut of that, he was not bothered at all, and just cut me off with 'that's my decision, it's final, tough luck, bugger off...'
To me, the tribunal was a bunch of arse, and was at the whim of just one man on the day. Surely these things should be put to a panel of people, in the same way that a court case is put to a jewry???
Ray, that sounds like that may have just been a pre hearing review rather then a full hearing when there are usually two additional people who sit with the judge.
And as frustrating and wrong as it sounds, the judge will quite often have a fairly limited range of options available to them especially where there is such ambigious phrasing.
For the sake of £3k I'm surprised your employer took it so far rather then just pay up. It would have cost them almost as much to put a response in and if they had gone to a full case which can go on for days it would have cost a lot more than that.
To the op, as people have said it really depends on the case itself but 75 pages does sound a lot! Was it written for you? Do you know your way around it? Make sure you have read through it a fair few times if not as if you have doubt it won't look good.
And as frustrating and wrong as it sounds, the judge will quite often have a fairly limited range of options available to them especially where there is such ambigious phrasing.
For the sake of £3k I'm surprised your employer took it so far rather then just pay up. It would have cost them almost as much to put a response in and if they had gone to a full case which can go on for days it would have cost a lot more than that.
To the op, as people have said it really depends on the case itself but 75 pages does sound a lot! Was it written for you? Do you know your way around it? Make sure you have read through it a fair few times if not as if you have doubt it won't look good.
Cheers all - Ray sounds like a nightmare, I’m sorry. Sounds very much like a CMD hearing (Case Management Discussion) to me.
To clarify – I’m the employer, I dismissed a member of staff, my statement is 3 pages.
The member of staff has submitted a statement of 72 pages. Bundle is 550+ pages.
Case scheduled for 3 days.
To clarify – I’m the employer, I dismissed a member of staff, my statement is 3 pages.
The member of staff has submitted a statement of 72 pages. Bundle is 550+ pages.
Case scheduled for 3 days.
I have also been on the employer side several times. Forget the length of the documents. It may even be disadvantageous. Focus on the process and your adherence to it. Show through your documentation and evidence that you followed process correctly. Ultimately, this is what the tribunal is interested in. Show conviction when questioned about the validity of your decision making but also demonstrate that those decisions were well thought out. With a respondent statement so long and without knowing the case I would expect it lacks focus and attempts to drag up a lot of historical feelings. I would be wary of closing some of this out by stating it is irrelevant but do show that it was handled promptly, seriously and closed out.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff