Automotive Contracting - Advice Please
Discussion
Hi all,
Have been plugging away at my little sideline for a short while, which enabled me to offer my services as Race Engineer free of charge - which I now get paid to do (very part time).
This has led me to a quandry, I was so set on working for myself - but in actual fact I love working in a stimulating environment relating to cars. So I have started looking into using the degree I just spent years working hard to gain.
So far I have only applied to JLR, as a perm I get shot down at the first hurdle - as a contractor (according to an agency) I have no reason not to be considered, I have a slightly unusual work history.
I appreciate there are others with more experience (Engineering-wise) but I need to work out where my targets should be set.
-Would my lack of A-levels be blinding the HR department to the rest of my CV when it might otherwise be good?(they don't give feedback)
-Although 27, with a recent 2:1 in Performance Automotive and Motorsport Technology, would I be too inexperienced to be contracting (have previously spent 3 years as a Technician, most of which on TVRs, and more in some other more managerial/project based interesting roles...and of course a season of analysis p/t Race Engineering)
-The 3 jobs I have been put forward for are between £17 and £26 p/h. On another thread indicated this is apparently low for contracting, for me anything over £20 is feels like serious money at my stage. Is this about right? I have no commitments and minimal outgoings.
Id be appreciative of a role, but of course I don't want to undersell myself.
At this stage i'd rather contract, I've always liked a bit of insecurity and would rather handle my own financial priorities.
My relative inexperience doesn't phase me 1 bit, I have absolute confidence in what I can and can't do.
If anyone knows of any automotive positions, or can offer any insight, PM me.
My LinkedIn is http://lnkd.in/QzjeQa if anyone's interested...
Have been plugging away at my little sideline for a short while, which enabled me to offer my services as Race Engineer free of charge - which I now get paid to do (very part time).
This has led me to a quandry, I was so set on working for myself - but in actual fact I love working in a stimulating environment relating to cars. So I have started looking into using the degree I just spent years working hard to gain.
So far I have only applied to JLR, as a perm I get shot down at the first hurdle - as a contractor (according to an agency) I have no reason not to be considered, I have a slightly unusual work history.
I appreciate there are others with more experience (Engineering-wise) but I need to work out where my targets should be set.
-Would my lack of A-levels be blinding the HR department to the rest of my CV when it might otherwise be good?(they don't give feedback)
-Although 27, with a recent 2:1 in Performance Automotive and Motorsport Technology, would I be too inexperienced to be contracting (have previously spent 3 years as a Technician, most of which on TVRs, and more in some other more managerial/project based interesting roles...and of course a season of analysis p/t Race Engineering)
-The 3 jobs I have been put forward for are between £17 and £26 p/h. On another thread indicated this is apparently low for contracting, for me anything over £20 is feels like serious money at my stage. Is this about right? I have no commitments and minimal outgoings.
Id be appreciative of a role, but of course I don't want to undersell myself.
At this stage i'd rather contract, I've always liked a bit of insecurity and would rather handle my own financial priorities.
My relative inexperience doesn't phase me 1 bit, I have absolute confidence in what I can and can't do.
If anyone knows of any automotive positions, or can offer any insight, PM me.
My LinkedIn is http://lnkd.in/QzjeQa if anyone's interested...
Edited by crosseyedlion on Tuesday 1st October 12:15
What kind of roles are you looking at?
Don't worry about lack of experience - in places like JLR you get graduates going in as 'contractors' in some departments. By the sound of it you'll be significantly more experienced than the average grad!
Lack of A levels shouldn't be too much of an issue, the degree will be the main requirement so if you've got that you should be fine.
One issue you may come up against is the relevent computer skills - alot of the large car companies have specialised/bespoke computer programs which control Bill of Materials, component releases all the way through to program gateways etc. Clearly this would all be new to you and so would take some time to pick it up, although the importance of this will depend on the jobs your going for. Some agencies will pay for training courses for contractors in return for signing up for a minimum contract period (and if you leave early you get stuck with the training fee).
As for rate, are these Ltd Co or PAYE? If your Ltd co. then you should be looking mid to high 20s. Don't under sell yourself!
Don't worry about lack of experience - in places like JLR you get graduates going in as 'contractors' in some departments. By the sound of it you'll be significantly more experienced than the average grad!
Lack of A levels shouldn't be too much of an issue, the degree will be the main requirement so if you've got that you should be fine.
One issue you may come up against is the relevent computer skills - alot of the large car companies have specialised/bespoke computer programs which control Bill of Materials, component releases all the way through to program gateways etc. Clearly this would all be new to you and so would take some time to pick it up, although the importance of this will depend on the jobs your going for. Some agencies will pay for training courses for contractors in return for signing up for a minimum contract period (and if you leave early you get stuck with the training fee).
As for rate, are these Ltd Co or PAYE? If your Ltd co. then you should be looking mid to high 20s. Don't under sell yourself!
In the contracting world you are normally expected to hit the ground running, companies are not going to be want to spending time and money teaching you on something you know nothing about. That's the reason they take you on as a contractor, least amount of investment. Quickly in, do your job with the experience that you have, and out.
Thanks for the advice. Its ltd.co, although anything over 20 and I will be able to put plenty aside incase of a contract ending/between contracts. So for my first contract I suppose its a case of so long as I'm happy.
Researching this week has been a bit of an eye opener so far, the futures looking bright! We'll see though. Got to get me that first one.
Researching this week has been a bit of an eye opener so far, the futures looking bright! We'll see though. Got to get me that first one.
Contracting rates go with the industry, Automotive being the lowest paid (from experience) oil and gas rigs being the highest.... hours are crap as manufacturing these days are "lean", unless your a local... 37 hours just won't cut it for the average ltd' contractor.
id personally look at a tier supplier as staff to develop your self and the JLR way if thats what you want, they respect people who do what they can to get to them, shows loyalty etc... but you will need to choose vehicle or systems as your neich.... vehicle will pigeon hole your self for the future, and systems are usually contracted out anyway... i served my time in the automotive as a techy. 10 years industry experience, hands on experience is paramount, graduates tend to suffer and only learn through mistakes... big companies know this which is why they are paid less on start up- risk... as a contractor your rate reflects your ability... high rate, high ability, low rate poor rep/desperate/needs a brake.... hiope that helps
id personally look at a tier supplier as staff to develop your self and the JLR way if thats what you want, they respect people who do what they can to get to them, shows loyalty etc... but you will need to choose vehicle or systems as your neich.... vehicle will pigeon hole your self for the future, and systems are usually contracted out anyway... i served my time in the automotive as a techy. 10 years industry experience, hands on experience is paramount, graduates tend to suffer and only learn through mistakes... big companies know this which is why they are paid less on start up- risk... as a contractor your rate reflects your ability... high rate, high ability, low rate poor rep/desperate/needs a brake.... hiope that helps
JLR pay a reasonable amount - typically around £30 an hour for your average design engineer (atleast with a few years experience). A few ex-colleagues of mine have moved there as the pay is a slight improvement over what I was on as a contractor (now permanent).
I did contracting for over 2 years and I thought it was good...but after those 2 years I got itchy feet to move up the ladder and you just can't do that as a contractor, hence got myself a permie role in the same company.
£20 an hour might sound fantastic but when you consider you pay two lots of National Insurance you're probably going to take home about 65% as part of an umbrella company...but if you go Ltd you can get that to around 80%. If you get 1700 hours for the year (about 37.5 a week) then you will take home between £22100 and £27200 a year. That's roughy £2270 a month at the top-end. Not too bad but for a contractor pretty low.
On the getting-through-the-door side of things, you will have less contact with HR as an agency worker. I didn't go through HR at all in my case - my supervisor selected the CVs he liked himself and then interviewed me. Simple. So, don't worry too much about ticking all the typical boxes - make sure it's clear you are capable of applying yourself and want to develop then you should be okay.
I did contracting for over 2 years and I thought it was good...but after those 2 years I got itchy feet to move up the ladder and you just can't do that as a contractor, hence got myself a permie role in the same company.
£20 an hour might sound fantastic but when you consider you pay two lots of National Insurance you're probably going to take home about 65% as part of an umbrella company...but if you go Ltd you can get that to around 80%. If you get 1700 hours for the year (about 37.5 a week) then you will take home between £22100 and £27200 a year. That's roughy £2270 a month at the top-end. Not too bad but for a contractor pretty low.
On the getting-through-the-door side of things, you will have less contact with HR as an agency worker. I didn't go through HR at all in my case - my supervisor selected the CVs he liked himself and then interviewed me. Simple. So, don't worry too much about ticking all the typical boxes - make sure it's clear you are capable of applying yourself and want to develop then you should be okay.
Just to make it clear, £30/hour as a contractor is NOT COMMON, that is a very very high rate in the engineering industry (mechanical/production/manf etc) and a rate like that will come with reasons... short term/highly specialized etc etc.
Last time I checked JLR standard rate for contractor was £18.25/hour, anything £20-25 and you are doing very well for yourself, esp with limited experience!
JLR are recruiting heavily though (I joined them a couple of months ago), sign up to jobsite with your CV etc as well, that will get you a lot of hits in the midlands area. Jobsite have done me well over the years.
edit: As for your linkedin, some issues:
1) What did you study at Oxford Brooks? With NOTHING listed aside from 2:1 I instantly assume it was in Hamster grooming/Fine Art or Dance... or equiv.
2) Put a longer profile summary, 1 sentence won't cut it.
3) Put a brief description next to each job - House management Team leader? So you have Leadership experience but don't explain it?
You have an outline of a cracking profile/CV but you need to flesh it out more mate, much more!
Last time I checked JLR standard rate for contractor was £18.25/hour, anything £20-25 and you are doing very well for yourself, esp with limited experience!
JLR are recruiting heavily though (I joined them a couple of months ago), sign up to jobsite with your CV etc as well, that will get you a lot of hits in the midlands area. Jobsite have done me well over the years.
edit: As for your linkedin, some issues:
1) What did you study at Oxford Brooks? With NOTHING listed aside from 2:1 I instantly assume it was in Hamster grooming/Fine Art or Dance... or equiv.
2) Put a longer profile summary, 1 sentence won't cut it.
3) Put a brief description next to each job - House management Team leader? So you have Leadership experience but don't explain it?
You have an outline of a cracking profile/CV but you need to flesh it out more mate, much more!
Edited by Andehh on Friday 4th October 19:22
Great advice andehh. All the stuff on my linkedin is on there, you just need to be a connection. Hadnt realised.. Ill look at changing my settings to be seen!
Now have 2 interviews lined up at jlr next week! One under 20ph and one over. Going to be doing lots of prep/research this weekend.
Now have 2 interviews lined up at jlr next week! One under 20ph and one over. Going to be doing lots of prep/research this weekend.
Great advice andehh. All the stuff on my linkedin is on there, you just need to be a connection. Hadnt realised.. Ill look at changing my settings to be seen!
Now have 2 interviews lined up at jlr next week! One under 20ph and one over. Going to be doing lots of prep/research this weekend.
Now have 2 interviews lined up at jlr next week! One under 20ph and one over. Going to be doing lots of prep/research this weekend.
With JLR research the position well, the vehicles and their current sales figures/performance. Come up with a few questions to ask them. For example..'knowing that some of JLR's biggest markets are abroad (China is HUGE fr us/LR) has JLR considered opening factories in more locations abroad?' - they ARE working on collaboration with a Chinese manf to open one in China but a little known fact is that they are looking to do the same in Brazil. They are just deciding on exactly where/when!
Maybe ask how Land Rover are innovating to keep up with the modern demands for fuel efficiency and MPG targets?They are pouring a lot in Hybrids atm.
They will ask why JLR - huge employer in the area (and country...), fantastic sales figures, strong demand, desirable brand, working with vehicles you genuinely believe in etc etc.
What you bring to the brand - passion, exuberance, interest & desire to work for such a global employer & respected brand etc...
Dress as smart as possible, be confident, be enthusiastic and relax and you will be fine. Don't be afraid of being honest as well, if you aren't sure of a question or struggle to answer it just ask them for a minute, they aren't their to screw you, just get to know you. READ YOUR CV WELL, they will prob ask you a thing or two off it, come with examples to back up your CV etc etc...
Will post if I can think of anything else!
Maybe ask how Land Rover are innovating to keep up with the modern demands for fuel efficiency and MPG targets?They are pouring a lot in Hybrids atm.
They will ask why JLR - huge employer in the area (and country...), fantastic sales figures, strong demand, desirable brand, working with vehicles you genuinely believe in etc etc.
What you bring to the brand - passion, exuberance, interest & desire to work for such a global employer & respected brand etc...
Dress as smart as possible, be confident, be enthusiastic and relax and you will be fine. Don't be afraid of being honest as well, if you aren't sure of a question or struggle to answer it just ask them for a minute, they aren't their to screw you, just get to know you. READ YOUR CV WELL, they will prob ask you a thing or two off it, come with examples to back up your CV etc etc...
Will post if I can think of anything else!
Thank you everyone for taking the time to advise. I had an interview yesterday and got the job! Very fast response, a very agreeable rate but moving onto perm after 6 months, which is probably sensible for the foreseeable future as its the start of my engineering career and my dream job. Couldn't be happier.
Its going to be hard work but a lot of fun by the sounds of it.
Its going to be hard work but a lot of fun by the sounds of it.
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