Employee tribunal my only option?
Discussion
Hi all, I'm looking for a bit of advice on a situation with a former employer. I was employed by a large company in March 2012, in May of that year I was told that they would be consolidating offices and mine was to close. The new office would be 70 miles away with a difficult commute, a date was not given for the move. One of the reasons I have for joining was that it was closer to home so I could be near my young family with minimal travel.
In September they announced a voluntary redundancy package which I applied for due to the relocation. I was turned down as apparently it was over subscribed, it was very generous.
In January I was told my role was to change and given a role very different to what I was employed to do, this actually caused an issue with a colleague I sat opposite to as I was given a number of his responsibilities.
At the beginning of May 2013, the relocation was confirmed for the end of May with the option to relocate or accept statutory redundancy. In my case this would be nothing. I considered starting a case for constructive dismissal, as I felt I was being given no other option but to leave.
I was offered a position with another company fairly quickly and left in July this year. I requested my pension transfer value which I've just received 11 weeks later, they have reduced it by 13% as the final salary scheme is under funded.
I really feel this is adding insult to injury and wonder whether I should open a case for constructive dismissal after all. I understand these should be opened within 3 months of leaving which is end of October.
I'd really appreciate some advice on this, thanks in advance.
In September they announced a voluntary redundancy package which I applied for due to the relocation. I was turned down as apparently it was over subscribed, it was very generous.
In January I was told my role was to change and given a role very different to what I was employed to do, this actually caused an issue with a colleague I sat opposite to as I was given a number of his responsibilities.
At the beginning of May 2013, the relocation was confirmed for the end of May with the option to relocate or accept statutory redundancy. In my case this would be nothing. I considered starting a case for constructive dismissal, as I felt I was being given no other option but to leave.
I was offered a position with another company fairly quickly and left in July this year. I requested my pension transfer value which I've just received 11 weeks later, they have reduced it by 13% as the final salary scheme is under funded.
I really feel this is adding insult to injury and wonder whether I should open a case for constructive dismissal after all. I understand these should be opened within 3 months of leaving which is end of October.
I'd really appreciate some advice on this, thanks in advance.
Edited by SausageBap on Tuesday 8th October 11:24
Edited by SausageBap on Tuesday 8th October 11:26
SausageBap said:
Hi all, I'm looking for a bit of advice on a situation with a former employer. I was employed by a large company in March 2012, in May of that year I was told that they would be consolidating offices and mine was to close. The new office would be 70 miles away with a difficult commute, a date was not given for the move. One of the reasons I have for joining was that it was closer to home so I could be near my young family with minimal travel.
In September they announced a voluntary redundancy package which I applied for due to the relocation. I was turned down as apparently it was over subscribed, it was very generous.
In January I was told my role was to change and given a role very different to what I was employed to do, this actually caused an issue with a colleague I sat opposite to as I was given a number of his responsibilities.
At the beginning of May 2013, the relocation was confirmed for the end of May with the option to relocate or accept statutory redundancy. In my case this would be nothing. I considered starting a case for constructive dismissal, as I felt I was being given no other option but to leave.
I was offered a position with another company fairly quickly and left in July this year. I requested my pension transfer value which I've just received 11 weeks later, they have reduced it by 13% as the final salary scheme is under funded.
I really feel this is adding insult to injury and wonder whether I should open a case for constructive dismissal after all. I understand these should be opened within 3 months of leaving which is end of October.
I'd really appreciate some advice on this, thanks in advance.
It's a little hard to follow but you left one company due to redundancy/relocation in May 2013 and left a different company in July 2013. In September you receive a transfer value for your pension, feel pi**d off that it is not higher and you want to consider a constructive dismissal case?In September they announced a voluntary redundancy package which I applied for due to the relocation. I was turned down as apparently it was over subscribed, it was very generous.
In January I was told my role was to change and given a role very different to what I was employed to do, this actually caused an issue with a colleague I sat opposite to as I was given a number of his responsibilities.
At the beginning of May 2013, the relocation was confirmed for the end of May with the option to relocate or accept statutory redundancy. In my case this would be nothing. I considered starting a case for constructive dismissal, as I felt I was being given no other option but to leave.
I was offered a position with another company fairly quickly and left in July this year. I requested my pension transfer value which I've just received 11 weeks later, they have reduced it by 13% as the final salary scheme is under funded.
I really feel this is adding insult to injury and wonder whether I should open a case for constructive dismissal after all. I understand these should be opened within 3 months of leaving which is end of October.
I'd really appreciate some advice on this, thanks in advance.
Edited by SausageBap on Tuesday 8th October 11:24
Edited by SausageBap on Tuesday 8th October 11:26
This feels like a way just to bump up some virtual shortfall in the pension pot and in any case it in itself was not the event/trigger for you leaving so in itself could not be considered constructive dismissal, plus the fact it ocurred after your leaving. You are unfortunately, clutching at straw trying to build a case around this. A better avenue to explore is to see whether there is some form of appeal procedure with the pension administrator or to understand whether you are better off leaving the pension funds where they are and transferring at another date.
edc said:
It's a little hard to follow but you left one company due to redundancy/relocation in May 2013 and left a different company in July 2013. In September you receive a transfer value for your pension, feel pi**d off that it is not higher and you want to consider a constructive dismissal case?
This feels like a way just to bump up some virtual shortfall in the pension pot and in any case it in itself was not the event/trigger for you leaving so in itself could not be considered constructive dismissal, plus the fact it ocurred after your leaving. You are unfortunately, clutching at straw trying to build a case around this. A better avenue to explore is to see whether there is some form of appeal procedure with the pension administrator or to understand whether you are better off leaving the pension funds where they are and transferring at another date.
Sorry for the lack of clarity, typed it on my phone which probably wasn't the best idea, here are the key points:This feels like a way just to bump up some virtual shortfall in the pension pot and in any case it in itself was not the event/trigger for you leaving so in itself could not be considered constructive dismissal, plus the fact it ocurred after your leaving. You are unfortunately, clutching at straw trying to build a case around this. A better avenue to explore is to see whether there is some form of appeal procedure with the pension administrator or to understand whether you are better off leaving the pension funds where they are and transferring at another date.
- March 2012 - Join the company
- May 2012 - Get told the office is relocating
- Sep 2012 - Apply for the voluntary redundancy package as I don't want to relocate. Get turned down.
- Jan 2013 - Given a new role without consultation
- May 2013 - Office relocates
- Jul 2013 - I leave the company via statutory redundancy as commute is a nightmare.
Basically, I feel I've been forced to leave the company through no fault of my own. They could have given me the voluntary package but didn't so I had to leave with statutory redundancy for nothing.
The reduced pension is adding insult to injury I feel but I knew they are within they're rights to do it.
SausageBap said:
Sorry for the lack of clarity, typed it on my phone which probably wasn't the best idea, here are the key points:
- March 2012 - Join the company
- May 2012 - Get told the office is relocating
- Sep 2012 - Apply for the voluntary redundancy package as I don't want to relocate. Get turned down.
- Jan 2013 - Given a new role without consultation
- May 2013 - Office relocates
- Jul 2013 - I leave the company via statutory redundancy as commute is a nightmare.
Basically, I feel I've been forced to leave the company through no fault of my own. They could have given me the voluntary package but didn't so I had to leave with statutory redundancy for nothing.
The reduced pension is adding insult to injury I feel but I knew they are within they're rights to do it.
It is unfortunate but businesses do have to make decisions which affect individual employees. Those employees may well have little influence on that final decision whether it be redundancy or some other dismissal.- March 2012 - Join the company
- May 2012 - Get told the office is relocating
- Sep 2012 - Apply for the voluntary redundancy package as I don't want to relocate. Get turned down.
- Jan 2013 - Given a new role without consultation
- May 2013 - Office relocates
- Jul 2013 - I leave the company via statutory redundancy as commute is a nightmare.
Basically, I feel I've been forced to leave the company through no fault of my own. They could have given me the voluntary package but didn't so I had to leave with statutory redundancy for nothing.
The reduced pension is adding insult to injury I feel but I knew they are within they're rights to do it.
Being 'forced' to leave and constructive dismissal are two entirely different things though. To give it it's correct name it should be constructive unfair dismissal. The fact that you did not leave of your own accord is not necessarily constructive dismissal.
Your gripe seems to be aimed at the use of the volunteer process to expedite redundancies. I can't comment on that except to say there is no obligation for the company to accept volunteers. The fact that there is a volunteer process as well as a relocation suggests an element of downsizing as well.
You can seek redress at Tribunal if the redundancy process has been flawed and not followed correctly. It seems as though the end result would have been the same anyway due to relocation and you stating that you did not want to move/commute. This is not going to net you any significant sum but suck away a lot of time and effort unless you were to piggy back a valid discrimination based claim.
Can't believe management did not already know or were planning the changes you mention when you were employed as they were implemented within 2 months of your joining.
Not sure if this would give you any grounds - employed on a false basis of some sort? Morally wrong at the very least.
Not sure if this would give you any grounds - employed on a false basis of some sort? Morally wrong at the very least.
elanfan said:
Can't believe management did not already know or were planning the changes you mention when you were employed as they were implemented within 2 months of your joining.
Not sure if this would give you any grounds - employed on a false basis of some sort? Morally wrong at the very least.
Unfortunately, this sort of thing can happen quite easily. I have been on the receiving end and on the giving end of such decisions. It is often the way that such strategic decisions are not made at the local site level let alone divulged to the local layers of management who get involved in the recruiting process until well flushed through. It will then be vetted through unions or works councils and go through any necessary consultation period.Not sure if this would give you any grounds - employed on a false basis of some sort? Morally wrong at the very least.
Trying to make a 'they didn't tell me they were closing' argument stick at Tribunal is tenuous at best and there is no value in it.
elanfan said:
Can't believe management did not already know or were planning the changes you mention when you were employed as they were implemented within 2 months of your joining.
Not sure if this would give you any grounds - employed on a false basis of some sort? Morally wrong at the very least.
I do believe they knew this was coming but just didn't know when. This is what I find frustrating and obviously it's very difficult to prove.Not sure if this would give you any grounds - employed on a false basis of some sort? Morally wrong at the very least.
SausageBap said:
I do believe they knew this was coming but just didn't know when. This is what I find frustrating and obviously it's very difficult to prove.
I would suspect that you have no documentary and little if any anecdotal evidence that such a decision had been confirmed. In any case, for a successgul constructive dismissal claim you would have to demonsrate that this fundamentally breached the employment contract and was so severe that it left you no choice but to leave at the time of the event.What is your preferred outcome?
edc said:
I would suspect that you have no documentary and little if any anecdotal evidence that such a decision had been confirmed. In any case, for a successgul constructive dismissal claim you would have to demonsrate that this fundamentally breached the employment contract and was so severe that it left you no choice but to leave at the time of the event.
What is your preferred outcome?
I'm afraid so, it's only from conversations that I've had with people I found out that `it had been on the cards`.What is your preferred outcome?
I guess I just feel treated badly and they've avoided providing with a reasonable redundancy package. It's a shame as I enjoyed the job but had no option but to leave.
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I think it's confirmed what I already knew but just needed that expert advice.
SausageBap said:
I'm afraid so, it's only from conversations that I've had with people I found out that `it had been on the cards`.
I guess I just feel treated badly and they've avoided providing with a reasonable redundancy package. It's a shame as I enjoyed the job but had no option but to leave.
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I think it's confirmed what I already knew but just needed that expert advice.
Honestly, move on. There is no obligation to pay anything other than the statutory basic entitlement unless there is an enhancement expressly in contract or implied by custom and practice. Based on your length of service the difference is lilely to be not worth fighting over.I guess I just feel treated badly and they've avoided providing with a reasonable redundancy package. It's a shame as I enjoyed the job but had no option but to leave.
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I think it's confirmed what I already knew but just needed that expert advice.
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