Clocking out early
Discussion
Evening all,
After a bit of advice regarding a couple of problems at work.
I've been at my current company for over six years, and since I've been there if you clicked out early, you weren't paid, which rightly is fair enough.
I should point out, that I only clock out early if everything I need to do is done, and it's often 15/30 minutes or so, there are some people that take the piss though (and it's not just me that has a problem with those members of staff regarding them taking the piss).
I came back today (delivery driver) and saw the following on the notice board.
Couple of questions, firstly is this breaking union rules, and secondly am I over reacting?
A lot of the drivers stay late (10/15 minutes or so) a few times a week, which we don't get paid for.
Going to speak to the union about it and a couple I other things (not providing waterproofs, still waiting for uniform and boots), but just wondering what PH thinks.
Thanks.
After a bit of advice regarding a couple of problems at work.
I've been at my current company for over six years, and since I've been there if you clicked out early, you weren't paid, which rightly is fair enough.
I should point out, that I only clock out early if everything I need to do is done, and it's often 15/30 minutes or so, there are some people that take the piss though (and it's not just me that has a problem with those members of staff regarding them taking the piss).
I came back today (delivery driver) and saw the following on the notice board.
Couple of questions, firstly is this breaking union rules, and secondly am I over reacting?
A lot of the drivers stay late (10/15 minutes or so) a few times a week, which we don't get paid for.
Going to speak to the union about it and a couple I other things (not providing waterproofs, still waiting for uniform and boots), but just wondering what PH thinks.
Thanks.
Ki3r said:
Couple of questions, firstly is this breaking union rules, and secondly am I over reacting?
Well the notice board breaches PH spelling rules (unless you spend the time sat on the bog!)Just get paid for sitting around 10-15 mins and then clock out at the correct time. Seems a bit of a storm in a tea cup both ways to be honest.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Sounds like typical "want everything, but give nothing" attitude of big organisations. I would start working to rule if I was you. Drop everything and walk out the second 5pm (or whatever time) comes around. They can't have it all ways.
This is what I'm thinking of doing, the only downside is it f
ks over the people I work with, which isn't fair on them. mudster said:
Well the notice board breaches PH spelling rules (unless you spend the time sat on the bog!)
Just get paid for sitting around 10-15 mins and then clock out at the correct time. Seems a bit of a storm in a tea cup both ways to be honest.
I only tend to leave early if I'm doing something else. Tonight for example I am babysitting for a friend, I needed to be at hers for 1930, I finish at 1800, she lives a hour away and I need a shower and get changed etc. The 15 minutes I was planning to leave early would have been a huge help (I asked my team leader earlier in the day who said it was ok if I had done everything, come back after my afternoon route and that sign is up). Just get paid for sitting around 10-15 mins and then clock out at the correct time. Seems a bit of a storm in a tea cup both ways to be honest.
I've already mentioned the spelling xD.
mondeoman said:
So now if you sign out early, they will pay you, but you owe them the time back?
Thats how it reads to me... They can't not pay you the time (as happens now, as you're not working), and then ask for the time back as well, IYSWIM. That would be wrong.
Yep that's how I read it too. Thats how it reads to me... They can't not pay you the time (as happens now, as you're not working), and then ask for the time back as well, IYSWIM. That would be wrong.
They will pay us until the end of the shift, but we owe them the time later.
I think it's so they can get us in more over Xmas, there are talks about them getting us to work with days off over Xmas (other than Xmas day). This sounds like a way to get out of overtime. 'Well you clocked out 20 minutes early on 1,2,3,4,5 days, you can come in early to help'.
Might not seem too bad, but a few drivers did a load of overtime, expecting to get paid, for them then to day 'sorry, we don't have the budget, you can have the time off.'
It didn't effect me, but it didn't go down well with the others!
I have worked at several places which operated TOIL. That is having worked extra hours you could then 'bank' it and take part/all of it as time off on a subsequent day/days. The proposed scheme being mooted here is the exact reverse. It's equally equitable and not unreasonable per se.
Presumably the employment T&Cs require a certain number of hours to be worked each week.
Not paying people if they leave early but also not doing so for any extra time worked is trying to have your cake and eat it. Completely unjustifiable and I'm sure ACAS would have a view on that.
Presumably the employment T&Cs require a certain number of hours to be worked each week.
Not paying people if they leave early but also not doing so for any extra time worked is trying to have your cake and eat it. Completely unjustifiable and I'm sure ACAS would have a view on that.
Purity14 said:
Say you are due to work 8 hours on monday and tuesday, you leave after 7.75 on monday as you left 15 minutes early, do you think that if you stay behind 15 minutes on tuesday you should be eligable for 0.25 hours of overtime?
The above statement is dependant on if overtime is paid daily or weekly, you would have to look at your contract.
If the company is overbudget on wages, id accept that lieu time is a better way for them to recoup their losses than to start letting staff go.
If I clocked out 15 minutes early on Monday, but stayed 15 minutes another day, I would expect to be paid for the 8 hours I have worked. I don't want overtime rates (don't think we get extra anyway). The above statement is dependant on if overtime is paid daily or weekly, you would have to look at your contract.
If the company is overbudget on wages, id accept that lieu time is a better way for them to recoup their losses than to start letting staff go.
Contracts is another issue...I still haven't got one from when I moved departments...August 2013...
It's not a small company either, one of the big four supermarkets!
I'm a postie what there asking you to do is called 'swings and roundabouts'.
Say i finish 30min earlier on tuesday but go over my hours weds/thurs i just don't claim overtime.
Only thing to beware of is idiot managers who then think because a whole office barely claims any overtime that the jobs are to short.
Say i finish 30min earlier on tuesday but go over my hours weds/thurs i just don't claim overtime.
Only thing to beware of is idiot managers who then think because a whole office barely claims any overtime that the jobs are to short.
Purity14 said:
You could infact be paid 7.75 monday and 8 on tuesday based on my previous message.
Again it depends on your contract..
If you expect full pay on both days after leaving early, thats is leaving the company with a 0.25 deficit.
0.25 x 300(supermarket? Store/distribution centre?)staff per week is 75 hours a week, which is 3900 hours a year..!
They have lost 3900 x (payrate) £10? = £39,000
If you then actually got the 15 minues payed on the tuesday for what you worked over your standard 8, then thats another £39,000
So £78,000 loss per year because you all left early once per week.
I don't expect to get paid for a full day at all if I leave early. I thought I put it in my OP? If I leave 15 minutes early Monday, I expect to get paid minus the 15 minutes, however if I stay over by 15 minutes, I expect to get paid for those 15 minutes (I don't get paid enough to work for free). Again it depends on your contract..
If you expect full pay on both days after leaving early, thats is leaving the company with a 0.25 deficit.
0.25 x 300(supermarket? Store/distribution centre?)staff per week is 75 hours a week, which is 3900 hours a year..!
They have lost 3900 x (payrate) £10? = £39,000
If you then actually got the 15 minues payed on the tuesday for what you worked over your standard 8, then thats another £39,000
So £78,000 loss per year because you all left early once per week.
Ki3r said:
Contracts is another issue...I still haven't got one from when I moved departments...August 2013...
It's not a small company either, one of the big four supermarkets!
Are you saying your T&Cs changed when you moved department? If it was something simple (e.g. different contracted hours or pay frequency) I would expect this to be a one line amendment, not a whole new contract. As you're still working for the same company the bulk of the T&Cs are unlikely to be materially different.It's not a small company either, one of the big four supermarkets!
Red Devil said:
Are you saying your T&Cs changed when you moved department? If it was something simple (e.g. different contracted hours or pay frequency) I would expect this to be a one line amendment, not a whole new contract. As you're still working for the same company the bulk of the T&Cs are unlikely to be materially different.
I have no idea what has changed, my hours and rate of pay have, but no idea about anything else. It should be August 2012, not 2013!
you may want to consider some cropping of the image when you can if you don't want to be specifying it 
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