PH director going on jury duty-what can I claim?!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Remember me

After deferring last time (there was a thread) I told the jury service I was quite willing to do my civic duty if they could help me out by having me sit in early January when work is quiet, which they very kindly did.

Now, they've sent me an info pack which details the pittance I'll be entitled to but there is also a section on people who are self employed.

Here's the brief-
I'm the sole director of my own limited company
I'm also employed by that company on the usual £640 PCM

Is it a case of me just showing them last years profit, adding it to my monthly salary & devising by the days I work to get what I should be claiming?

The notes in the guide are (perhaps unsurprisingly) a bit vague on it all!

Or....

As I'm employed by my own company should the companies profit not come into it? I just claim my daily allowance, bus fair & sarnie money & be done with it

[marshalla]

You're not self-employed, you're employed by the company. Your salary is what appears on the payslips. Dividends, profits etc. are not guaranteed (and you've already told them that January is a "quiet" month...).

(same position here, btw).

[pitmansboots]

Normally the directors low pay works to your benefit; for jury duty it does not.

While you take advantage of not contributing much to taxes in your day-to-day job I can't see why you should expect the public to now contribute to your notional loss of tax free dividend.

[pitmansboots]

Normally the directors low pay works to your benefit; for jury duty it does not.

While you take advantage of not contributing much to taxes in your day-to-day job I can't see why you should expect the public to now contribute to your notional loss of tax free dividend.

[contractor]

pitmansboots said:

Normally the directors low pay works to your benefit; for jury duty it does not.

While you take advantage of not contributing much to taxes in your day-to-day job I can't see why you should expect the public to now contribute to your notional loss of tax free dividend.

That's a bit out of order. The guy is actually taxed on his dividend but gets a tax credit because the company has already paid at least 20% corporation tax.

Ultimately the company will suffer due to loss of earnings and may be at risk of closure depending on circumstances. As a company director he has a duty to act in the best interests of the company and if that means claiming whatever he can, so be it.

[Wozy68]

pitmansboots said:

Normally the directors low pay works to your benefit; for jury duty it does not.

While you take advantage of not contributing much to taxes in your day-to-day job I can't see why you should expect the public to now contribute to your notional loss of tax free dividend.

Blimey ................ I'm in full agreement with you PB. There's a first.

LOH. Can't have it both ways matey. Also be careful. A friend of mine played it the way you do with the tax man, had a not at fault serious accident which meant he can no longer work. Third parties insurance paid him out a pittance compared to his actual draw from the Company, because on the books he was only paid around 5k a year, dividends didn't come into it, as its not a guaranteed income.

[Corpulent Tosser]

contractor said:

As a company director he has a duty to act in the best interests of the company and if that means claiming whatever he can, so be it.

However as an employee of the company, he gets a salary, that is what any payments for loss of earnings will be based on, not dividends/bonuses.

Seems perfectly fair to me.

[contractor]

Corpulent Tosser said:

However as an employee of the company, he gets a salary, that is what any payments for loss of earnings will be based on, not dividends/bonuses.

Seems perfectly fair to me.

Yes, that's fair enough, to only claim based on salary. But as a director I'd be looking at avoiding jury duty altogether if it will negatively impact the company. My main thought was about the statement regarding dividends being tax-free when in actual fact they are not tax-free and are not a 'dodge'.

[POORCARDEALER]

Theres a maximum they pay as well, a ceiling.....so the typical Uber wealthy, powerfully built, goatie bearded PH company director type will be losing out for sure

[LaurasOtherHalf]

thanks for the info so far chaps, as i said in my OP, i'm quite willing to do my duty & claim my daily allowence as any other employed person. however...

if there are provisions made my particular example then i fully intend on claiming whatever i can

this is not about the risks of tax efficiency by claiming a large proportion of earnings via a (fully taxed i might add!) dividend!

i'm fully aware of the risks of streamlined tax efficiency thank you

however, the GOV.UK website is very vague about the particulars of how to calculate your claim or in what circumstances you can claim.

here's the relevant page;

https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/how-to-claim-expen...

regarding self employed claims

GOV.SITE said:

6. How to claim expenses
Make your claim for expenses at the end of your jury service - and no more than 3 months later.

If the trial’s likely to last a long time (eg several months) the court can make special arrangements for payment.

Fill in the claim form included in your jury pack (which you’re given at the start of jury service) and return it to the court with all relevant receipts.

You should also include:

a Certificate of Loss of Earnings if you’re working or on benefits (completed by your employer or benefits office)
evidence of loss of earnings if you’re self-employed - eg the previous year’s tax return
You will usually be paid 7 to 10 working days after submitting your claim form.

i agree that in the eyes of some as an employed directopr of my limited company i may not be considered as self employed, but the question remains how would the court consider my employment?

[marshalla]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

i agree that in the eyes of some as an employed directopr of my limited company i may not be considered as self employed, but the question remains how would the court consider my employment?

In the eyes of the law, you are an employee.

[oyster]

contractor said:

Corpulent Tosser said:

However as an employee of the company, he gets a salary, that is what any payments for loss of earnings will be based on, not dividends/bonuses.

Seems perfectly fair to me.

Yes, that's fair enough, to only claim based on salary. But as a director I'd be looking at avoiding jury duty altogether if it will negatively impact the company. My main thought was about the statement regarding dividends being tax-free when in actual fact they are not tax-free and are not a 'dodge'.

Yet you expect to be able to operate your company in a secure, safe and stable society which is maintained by a justice system?

[herewego]

You have two sources of earnings so can't you write them both on the certificate of earnings?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

marshalla said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

i agree that in the eyes of some as an employed directopr of my limited company i may not be considered as self employed, but the question remains how would the court consider my employment?

In the eyes of the law, you are an employee.

in all honesty i think this is the fairest description [b]in the eyes of the law[/], but i have seen no evidence or governmental advice that this is the case-do you know otherwise?

there are a few threads on various business forums that say otherwise & include figures ranging from £85-125 per day for company directors. please note i have no idea if these people are talking cobblers!

[creampuff]

oyster said:

Yet you expect to be able to operate your company in a secure, safe and stable society which is maintained by a justice system?

I'm not sure I can see how a director claiming for a loss of company profits (which are taxed as company tax anyway and if paid as dividends are also taxed as personal income above a not-very-high threashold) is related to a safe society and justice system?

[EskimoArapaho]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

i agree that in the eyes of some as an employed directopr of my limited company i may not be considered as self employed, but the question remains how would the court consider my employment?

OOI, who does consider us 'pauper directors' (me, too) self-employed?

[Red Devil]

LOH you use the words 'tax efficiency'. A more accurate description would be 'tax advantage'. If there wasn't one, then directors would have no reason to draw down income as dividends out of company profits. The would simply be remunerated solely by salary under PAYE.

By using a limited company structure and appointing yourself a director of that company I don't believe you can be considered self-employed. Why should the court treat you differently from HMRC?

By all means claim what you are entitled to but I think it will be rather less than you are hoping you can get.

[rugbybloke]

Just to be clear, Shareholders are entitled to dividends not directors. A director is not necessarily a shareholder.

[rugbybloke]

Just to be clear, Shareholders are entitled to dividends not directors. A director is not necessarily a shareholder.

[contractor]

you can be employed, self-employed or unemployed. You are employed by a company and can also be a company director. Self-employment is a very different animal.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/