No copy of contract given? What now

[MOB1]

Hi everyone I was hoping to get some advise off some members here, basically I work in the motor trade and have done since 2007 in the parts department. As everyone knows the motor trade has been on its knees since the recession took hold of the economy but luckily our garage has done ok compared to some other garages.

In Jan 2008 things were looking dodgy and like many others out there we were all called in one by one to review our employment. Some people were unlucky and were let go, the people who were lucky enough to keep either got pay cuts or were put on three day weeks. I was one of the lucky one's who kept my job as I had previously worked in the service department so I could cover the service counter as the other advisor had lost their job. understandably I was happy to be keeping my job as I was just after buying my first house.

Fast forward to now and I am completely browned off as my work load has doubled and I and I have taken on numerous roles since the downturn but I'm still on a paycut add to this that some other employees are back to their normal wages. I have asked about getting my paycut back and its always the same answer "we're not making enough money" but I can see the business we are doing and as we have took on more franchises we are busier then ever.

The thing I need help with is my contract.... back in 2009 they brought in an external business developer and we had meetings with the other garages within our group with the view of getting the garages back on track, shortly after this the owner came round to all of us with contracts and basically stood over us while we signed the contract. Looking back on this I'm so angry with myself for not asking to bring it home to read over it but at the time I was worried about losing my job and house and with a baby on the way I was worried stiff. So can anyone help with where I stand now with not having a copy of my contract does it still stand or is it invalid as my employer did not follow the right procedures. The reason I ask is I want to go back and get my paycut back as I have taken on more work and have saved my employer a lot of money by not having to employ another service advisor and if needs be I will be refusing to work the service counter anymore so just needed some help before I take any drastic actions.
Thank you if you had read through this and I hope someone here can help, Thanks again

[anonymous-user]

Your employer is required by statute to give you written particulars of employment. This can be simply a list of the key terms as specified by the statute, or it can be a written contract. There is no obligation to have in place a full written contract, but many employers do so. Note that regardless of whether or not you have signed a written contract, you do have a contract, as a contract can be made orally or be inferred from conduct. If you have signed a written contract the employer should give you a copy.

Ask for a copy of the document that you signed. It is not invalidated even if you have not previously been given a copy of it.

PS: did you agree the reduced pay in writing?

PPS: Don't act in haste or burn your bridges. Negotiation usually beats conflict.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 13th January 22:18

[MOB1]

Thanks for the input breadvan, Yea I understand I still have a contract verbal or written but in terms of neg getting my paycut back I was thinking of using the additional role as leverage. No the paycut was not given in written form and when I asked about time frame I was told "how long is a piece of string" I have asked about getting it back before but the last time he laughed in my face and walked off. The fact that some of the lads that were put on three day weeks are now back full time and on their full wage and have been for about two years is the bit that's getting to me so I've just had enough of it now.

Edited by MOB1 on Monday 13th January 22:32

[MOB1]

Sorry Breadvan I was meant to ask you if I should have been given my paycut in writing?

[anonymous-user]

You could argue that the reduction in pay is an unlawful deduction because you have not agreed to it in writing, but I think that after this length of time the employer could argue with some force that the contract was amended by oral agreement back in 2008 and so in fact there is no deduction.

Negotiate, but be careful. Are there no better jobs available in your area?

[MOB1]

Yea I was thinking that after this amount of time I could not use this. No there is no jobs around and I think my employer uses this to his advantage as he knows I cannot move on. To be honest I am a bit down over my situation and I do understand that I am lucky to have a job but I am just looking for something that I feel I deserve as like many other people out there I have taken on a huge amount of extra work. I don't mind the extra work load but if I had the paycut back it would make me feel a bit better. I just need to find out the best way to approach him to review the paycut.

[anonymous-user]

Ask the boss for a meeting, and put your case to him calmly and politely, explaining that you have been loyal to the company through tough times, and believe that you believe you deserve some recognition for this. Keep it low key. If he kicks off, don't get into a row, and after the meeting make a note of it, whatever happened, in case things either get ugly or the boss says yes but then changes his mind.

If you prefer, write to the boss first setting out your case and asking for a meeting.

[MOB1]

I agree with you about being calm and I have always been calm with him, I not one for causing a scene or having a bust up but it never worked in the past and that was why I was going to change my approach even though I am not crazy about the idea. I was thinking of making a draft of why I should get it back which might help me for when I go up to the office, should I bring up the fact that others are on their full wage or would that cause trouble the last thing I want is the other lads to get a paycut Thanks for your input Breadvan.

[anonymous-user]

I think that you can and should raise the point that others are paid more. The boss would have to be a total nightmare and more than a bit reckless to level pay down for everyone.

[MOB1]

Well he is just going to brush over the fact that the mechanics are on full pay now, I know it was rough for them at the time but as it stands I have been cut more as its on going for me. Sorry if it sounds like I'm moaning but I just wanted to get peoples opinions from people who have maybe been through the same thing or people that could advise me on the best course of action

[Bisonhead]

Breadvan72 is obviously the man to speak to so my input is only from a friend's experiences.

An old company I worked for was bought over, as part of this we all had to sign new contracts. My mate asked to see his old contract to make sure a 3 month gardening leave clause was in place. They claimed to have lost it so he refused to sign a new contract unless the 3 month termination clause was worked in.
Things got ugly and he was sacked. He took them to court and won quite easily. He tells me that as soon as the court heard that the employer had 'lost' the original contract the case was finished up there and then.

The lesson I learned is that you should always make sure you have your employment contract in triplicate just in case your employer tries to pull a fast one!

[MOB1]

Yea Breadvan seems to know his stuff alright. Yea some employers can be horrible at least he won his case. I wonder should I ask for my signed contract before I go up to the office or should I bring it up in the meeting. Am I within my rights to refuse to work the service counter as I was hired to work in the parts department?

[anonymous-user]

Most modern employment contracts allow for an employer to ask the employee to undertake a range of duties (within a reasonable range), and in any event if you have been on the service desk for a while it might be too late to object now.

[MOB1]

Thanks Breadvan, your probably right and the time spent there even though I only stand in when its crazy busy. I would probably be better working on talking it through rather than barging in saying I'm not doing it anymore but he is so hard to talk to and only seems to respond to someone chewing his ear off which I haven't done because at the end of the day he is still the boss and I think you should always respect the employer ( but they should respect their employees also ). I must look up different ways into putting my point across that I am not happy and I will be using the points you raised just hope this time I am not laughed at as the last time he done it I was ready to just walk straight out the door I couldn't believe it.

[anonymous-user]

Be as chilled as you can. Don't see red and storm out. Keep pushing gently but firmly. If it starts to get ugly, politely end the meeting. If you ever end up in a tribunal, you need to be the one who can be seen to have tried to be reasonable, and doing so may show the boss to be unreasonable.

[MOB1]

Yea in the past when he has shot me down I ended the meeting before I said something I regretted but I think this time I am going to keep pushing him gently and see how I get on, I'm going to have to work on being pushy without getting hot headed which is hard for me because I can see what I am saving/ making the company. Thanks again for all the advise...... do you fancy negotiating on my behalf haha

[V8A*ndy]

MOB1 said:

I have asked about getting it back before but the last time he laughed in my face and walked off. The fact that some of the lads that were put on three day weeks are now back full time and on their full wage and have been for about two years is the bit that's getting to me so I've just had enough of it now.

Edited by MOB1 on Monday 13th January 22:32

You mention "Some of the lads".

What about the rest of the lads?

What was the criteria and selection process given for some going back to full time and others not in this instance?

[MOB1]

V8A*ndy said:

You mention "Some of the lads".

What about the rest of the lads?

What was the criteria and selection process given for some going back to full time and others not in this instance?

Hi Andy it was the mechanics that were put on three day weeks, that lasted a about 18 months only one mechanic was given 15% reduction but has since got some of it back (he could be keeping his cards close to his chest and might have got it all back) the sales basic wasn't touched as the basic is low and their commission would have taking a nose dive and I'm not sure about the managers.
The lads on three day weeks were brought back when things picked up and there was enough work for them to do.