Taking on business.......TUPE?
Discussion
Hi all. I'm about to embark on a new venture where I am taking over a business in which the existing owner is retiring.
He has one member of staff who is apparently on a rolling one month contract as he made her redundant a few years back when he was trying to sell the business and then took her back on with this 1 month contract (I haven't seen the contract yet).
My questions are (if anyone can help)......
1. Do TUPE rules apply with her?
2. I will be keeping her on for a while to take advantage of her knowledge, but probably won't be needing her for too long (maybe 6 months). Am I better off changing her contract onto one of these 'zero hour contracts' - I don't know a lot about these. Am I able to do this when I take over?
3. Finally, I won't be working in the business initially due to other commitments (probably 2 years), so I will be putting in my friend to manage the business and pick up the relationship with the existing member of staff initially. Again, I won't probably need him when I am ready to work there, so what sort of contract am I best off giving him?
Oh, I've thought of another question sorry.......Am I going to have to pay Employer NI & Tax regardless of what type of contracts I give them?
Sorry for all the questions! But thanks in advance for any help!
He has one member of staff who is apparently on a rolling one month contract as he made her redundant a few years back when he was trying to sell the business and then took her back on with this 1 month contract (I haven't seen the contract yet).
My questions are (if anyone can help)......
1. Do TUPE rules apply with her?
2. I will be keeping her on for a while to take advantage of her knowledge, but probably won't be needing her for too long (maybe 6 months). Am I better off changing her contract onto one of these 'zero hour contracts' - I don't know a lot about these. Am I able to do this when I take over?
3. Finally, I won't be working in the business initially due to other commitments (probably 2 years), so I will be putting in my friend to manage the business and pick up the relationship with the existing member of staff initially. Again, I won't probably need him when I am ready to work there, so what sort of contract am I best off giving him?
Oh, I've thought of another question sorry.......Am I going to have to pay Employer NI & Tax regardless of what type of contracts I give them?
Sorry for all the questions! But thanks in advance for any help!
Sounds like the lady is on a short term fixed contract, which is reviewed and either renewed or released on a monthly basis.
If this has been going on for several years ... Maybe the business does need her.
Does your friend know that his card is marked before he already starts?
I'd be more open minded ... Personally ... But again a fixed short term contract is the way to go.
Re Employers NI and tax (and paid holidays don't forget) ... Unfortunately yes, as the employer, there are certain privileges you get to enjoy, such as employers NI which you have to pay to the government, just for the privilege of employing someone.... unless you employ self employed people to deliver contracts on a contract for services basis.
Either way, I'd suggest you should familiarise yourself with employment law first.
You'll also need Employers Insurance .... These people will be working for you and you have a duty of care to protect them whilst they work and you have to ensure a safe working environment, ie. risk assessments etc.
Get familiar ... Otherwise I think you could regret it at some point,
If this has been going on for several years ... Maybe the business does need her.
Does your friend know that his card is marked before he already starts?
I'd be more open minded ... Personally ... But again a fixed short term contract is the way to go.
Re Employers NI and tax (and paid holidays don't forget) ... Unfortunately yes, as the employer, there are certain privileges you get to enjoy, such as employers NI which you have to pay to the government, just for the privilege of employing someone.... unless you employ self employed people to deliver contracts on a contract for services basis.
Either way, I'd suggest you should familiarise yourself with employment law first.
You'll also need Employers Insurance .... These people will be working for you and you have a duty of care to protect them whilst they work and you have to ensure a safe working environment, ie. risk assessments etc.
Get familiar ... Otherwise I think you could regret it at some point,
Cheers for your help chaps.
I have done due diligence on the business and it stacks up big time. This is without taking into account the retiring guy low moral and drive due to his imminent retirement.
I have actually spoken to ACAS today who informed me that even though she is on a 1 month contract, when the contract comes to an end (i.e. I want rid of her) I have to make her redundant and her service would be from the time the contract was written! Which I didn't know......I thought an employee on a short term contract had a maximum of 1 month service! So that's made me think twice about her future as I don't want to have to pay out big redundancy payments in the near future.
Yes my friend knows that I will probably only need him for 2 years and it suits him too due to family commitments.
So given what ACAS have told me today, there seems no point to short term contracts? As they get redunency at the end of them! I thought that was the point of these things? i.e. so you could get rid of them at a suitable time to the employer? But you can do the exact same thing on a permanent contract? I must be missing something?
I have done due diligence on the business and it stacks up big time. This is without taking into account the retiring guy low moral and drive due to his imminent retirement.
I have actually spoken to ACAS today who informed me that even though she is on a 1 month contract, when the contract comes to an end (i.e. I want rid of her) I have to make her redundant and her service would be from the time the contract was written! Which I didn't know......I thought an employee on a short term contract had a maximum of 1 month service! So that's made me think twice about her future as I don't want to have to pay out big redundancy payments in the near future.
Yes my friend knows that I will probably only need him for 2 years and it suits him too due to family commitments.
So given what ACAS have told me today, there seems no point to short term contracts? As they get redunency at the end of them! I thought that was the point of these things? i.e. so you could get rid of them at a suitable time to the employer? But you can do the exact same thing on a permanent contract? I must be missing something?
I could offer you some free and expert advice but I'm not going to. I will simply say that you would be very unwise to rely on advice from ACAS or from anyone here who is not a practising employment lawyer. You are running a business and getting this wrong could be expensive, so you should pay for expert advice from someone who is insured to give it.
Try Marty Byrne at Oxford Employment Lawyers or David Ludlow at Barlow Robbins.
Try Marty Byrne at Oxford Employment Lawyers or David Ludlow at Barlow Robbins.
audi321 said:
Cheers for your help chaps.
I have done due diligence on the business and it stacks up big time. This is without taking into account the retiring guy low moral and drive due to his imminent retirement.
I have actually spoken to ACAS today who informed me that even though she is on a 1 month contract, when the contract comes to an end (i.e. I want rid of her) I have to make her redundant and her service would be from the time the contract was written! Which I didn't know......I thought an employee on a short term contract had a maximum of 1 month service! So that's made me think twice about her future as I don't want to have to pay out big redundancy payments in the near future.
Yes my friend knows that I will probably only need him for 2 years and it suits him too due to family commitments.
So given what ACAS have told me today, there seems no point to short term contracts? As they get redunency at the end of them! I thought that was the point of these things? i.e. so you could get rid of them at a suitable time to the employer? But you can do the exact same thing on a permanent contract? I must be missing something?
To be fair your plan sounds to me like the business will run fine for the first 6 months ok for the next 12 then sI have done due diligence on the business and it stacks up big time. This is without taking into account the retiring guy low moral and drive due to his imminent retirement.
I have actually spoken to ACAS today who informed me that even though she is on a 1 month contract, when the contract comes to an end (i.e. I want rid of her) I have to make her redundant and her service would be from the time the contract was written! Which I didn't know......I thought an employee on a short term contract had a maximum of 1 month service! So that's made me think twice about her future as I don't want to have to pay out big redundancy payments in the near future.
Yes my friend knows that I will probably only need him for 2 years and it suits him too due to family commitments.
So given what ACAS have told me today, there seems no point to short term contracts? As they get redunency at the end of them! I thought that was the point of these things? i.e. so you could get rid of them at a suitable time to the employer? But you can do the exact same thing on a permanent contract? I must be missing something?
t when your mate realises he needs to find a new job sharpish It's amazing how even the threat of redundancy gets you focusing on YOUR personal future not the business.Engineer1 said:
To be fair your plan sounds to me like the business will run fine for the first 6 months ok for the next 12 then st when your mate realises he needs to find a new job sharpish It's amazing how even the threat of redundancy gets you focusing on YOUR personal future not the business.
What part of the following didn't you read?t when your mate realises he needs to find a new job sharpish It's amazing how even the threat of redundancy gets you focusing on YOUR personal future not the business."Yes my friend knows that I will probably only need him for 2 years and it suits him too due to family commitments."
audi321 said:
He has one member of staff who is apparently on a rolling one month contract as he made her redundant a few years back when he was trying to sell the business and then took her back on with this 1 month contract (I haven't seen the contract yet).
You will have to pay her redundancy from the time of the previous redundancy, but something smells fishy there.IIRC, you cannot start anyone? in a position that was made redundant and a redundancy made, for two years.
audi321 said:
Engineer1 said:
To be fair your plan sounds to me like the business will run fine for the first 6 months ok for the next 12 then st when your mate realises he needs to find a new job sharpish It's amazing how even the threat of redundancy gets you focusing on YOUR personal future not the business.
What part of the following didn't you read?t when your mate realises he needs to find a new job sharpish It's amazing how even the threat of redundancy gets you focusing on YOUR personal future not the business."Yes my friend knows that I will probably only need him for 2 years and it suits him too due to family commitments."
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