Tales of a late employee
Discussion
I won't try and hide the fact I'm the employee here. Hell, seeing previous posting of the trivial s
t my employer bleats about it'd be obvious anyway.
Apparently I have been late to work 6 times this year. Twice on account of major road accidents where every fker was late by 20 to 30 minutes. Apologies were given on the days and the time made up.
3 times have been on account of the disruption caused on my route to work by flooding (guess what county I live in), the consequent road closures and emergency roadworks that have closed major routes, leaving the remaining ones with extra traffic and no diversions available. These were less than 10 minutes late, and the time was made up on the day.
Once has been as a result of my own bad admin, failing to get some stuff together the night before. Time made up on the day. this was a 10 minutes late.
I point out that I haven't missed any meetings or anything, made up the time straight away without prompting, and that I've put in a lot more unpaid overtime than I've been late.
Boss doesn't believe I've done the overtime, which makes me pretty fking angry. We discuss the detail of could I plan better or leave earlier.. he feels I should aim to arrive at work 30 minutes early. I point out that's another 2 and a half hours unpaid overtime a week to counter the no lost time that has occurred as a result of these exceptional late occurrences, and would he be noting down these early times as well? it then descends into a bit of a polite argument in which he states he expects 30 minutes early and didn't feel employees who did these deserved any thanks or notice.
It's not a productive argument, so I say that I'll make more of an effort to make sure I get in on time. He still won't leave it.. eventually I get to 'look, what do you want? I've explained the situation, I've said I'm going to make more of an effort to get in on time - what else do you want?' and finally he says ok and the meeting ends.
I can't see it ending there, and I've been left fking fuming by it, not because he queried it, but because he accused me of lying about overtime done, then stated that he wanted people to be in half an hour early and that would be without reward, and finally, because once I'd agreed to make more of an effort he still wouldn't drop it.
Personally I think turning up 10 minutes early for no reward is fine, but a half hour is taking the piss especially when the boss doesn't appreciate his employees effort. I already have a part time job that has me needing what little sleep I get.
I undoubtedly caused irritation by not agreeing that the contract start time must be adhered to with absolutely no consideration of the circumstances involved, but fk, does anyone really believe that? I'm wondering if he just wanted an argument or even a filling in to allow a dismissal.
t my employer bleats about it'd be obvious anyway.Apparently I have been late to work 6 times this year. Twice on account of major road accidents where every f
ker was late by 20 to 30 minutes. Apologies were given on the days and the time made up.3 times have been on account of the disruption caused on my route to work by flooding (guess what county I live in), the consequent road closures and emergency roadworks that have closed major routes, leaving the remaining ones with extra traffic and no diversions available. These were less than 10 minutes late, and the time was made up on the day.
Once has been as a result of my own bad admin, failing to get some stuff together the night before. Time made up on the day. this was a 10 minutes late.
I point out that I haven't missed any meetings or anything, made up the time straight away without prompting, and that I've put in a lot more unpaid overtime than I've been late.
Boss doesn't believe I've done the overtime, which makes me pretty f
king angry. We discuss the detail of could I plan better or leave earlier.. he feels I should aim to arrive at work 30 minutes early. I point out that's another 2 and a half hours unpaid overtime a week to counter the no lost time that has occurred as a result of these exceptional late occurrences, and would he be noting down these early times as well? it then descends into a bit of a polite argument in which he states he expects 30 minutes early and didn't feel employees who did these deserved any thanks or notice.It's not a productive argument, so I say that I'll make more of an effort to make sure I get in on time. He still won't leave it.. eventually I get to 'look, what do you want? I've explained the situation, I've said I'm going to make more of an effort to get in on time - what else do you want?' and finally he says ok and the meeting ends.
I can't see it ending there, and I've been left f
king fuming by it, not because he queried it, but because he accused me of lying about overtime done, then stated that he wanted people to be in half an hour early and that would be without reward, and finally, because once I'd agreed to make more of an effort he still wouldn't drop it.Personally I think turning up 10 minutes early for no reward is fine, but a half hour is taking the piss especially when the boss doesn't appreciate his employees effort. I already have a part time job that has me needing what little sleep I get.
I undoubtedly caused irritation by not agreeing that the contract start time must be adhered to with absolutely no consideration of the circumstances involved, but f
k, does anyone really believe that? I'm wondering if he just wanted an argument or even a filling in to allow a dismissal.You need to get to work on time. Means starting work at say 9am. Not walking in just as the bell goes or later. It sets a poor example to other staff and shows that potentially you could not be trusted in more senior positions.
I feel you are focusing on the wrong part of what your manager said. He could've started disciplinary based on repeated failings by you to work your contracted hours.
Just get to work at 8:50 and you'll be fine.
I feel you are focusing on the wrong part of what your manager said. He could've started disciplinary based on repeated failings by you to work your contracted hours.
Just get to work at 8:50 and you'll be fine.
Depends on many factors I guess.
Six times in two months is a bit strong though, but I also wouldn't expect somebody to give up 2hrs a day of their own time to enable them to start work at the correct time, especially if it's not a time sensitive job, or possibly not a particularly well paid one.
How late have others been whose start time is roughly the same during an equivalent period? It's important to treat people equally.
Six times in two months is a bit strong though, but I also wouldn't expect somebody to give up 2hrs a day of their own time to enable them to start work at the correct time, especially if it's not a time sensitive job, or possibly not a particularly well paid one.
How late have others been whose start time is roughly the same during an equivalent period? It's important to treat people equally.
I used to get to work for 0745, London based so meant I had to leave the house at about 0615. Others used to start rolling in around 0800 through to 0845. A certain individual used to turn up at 0915-0930 or so. Had to have a word in his shell like as it was disrupting the status quo. If the working day starts at 0900 you should be there ready to go at that time. 6 times late is excessive imho.
TX.
TX.
I don't think your username helps your cause much.
It does seem a bit anal if it's 10-15 minutes, 6 times in two months over the period with all the floods etc. However if everyone else gets in on time (?) then why can't you?
Do you call to say you will be late?
I work in Thailand where being late is almost expected, however I'm never late and find it extremely rude. I ask people to call if they're going to be late with a realistic expectation of how late. Reason is we usually start the day with a sales meeting, the point of which is to know where everyone is up to and what they're doing that day, to make any announcements, and to get everyone a bit hyped up to throw themselves into it for the day.
There's nothing worse than someone turning up in the middle of it. If someone is sick and won't be coming in we go ahead without them, if someone is running 5-10 minutes late we wait for them and admonish them in a good humoured way. If someone is 30 minutes late then we go ahead and it's up to them to catch up later.
That doesn't mean you can call in and be 5-10 minutes late every day, but it makes it a lot easier to plan the morning and so on if you know in advance. It also shows a degree of respect and courtesy which I suspect your boss feels is lacking at the moment.
It does seem a bit anal if it's 10-15 minutes, 6 times in two months over the period with all the floods etc. However if everyone else gets in on time (?) then why can't you?
Do you call to say you will be late?
I work in Thailand where being late is almost expected, however I'm never late and find it extremely rude. I ask people to call if they're going to be late with a realistic expectation of how late. Reason is we usually start the day with a sales meeting, the point of which is to know where everyone is up to and what they're doing that day, to make any announcements, and to get everyone a bit hyped up to throw themselves into it for the day.
There's nothing worse than someone turning up in the middle of it. If someone is sick and won't be coming in we go ahead without them, if someone is running 5-10 minutes late we wait for them and admonish them in a good humoured way. If someone is 30 minutes late then we go ahead and it's up to them to catch up later.
That doesn't mean you can call in and be 5-10 minutes late every day, but it makes it a lot easier to plan the morning and so on if you know in advance. It also shows a degree of respect and courtesy which I suspect your boss feels is lacking at the moment.
Edited by AJS- on Wednesday 5th March 06:41
I don't know what work you do, so this is hard to cover. I have no idea how important start times are for your role, and whether making up time at other points of the day is in any way relevant.
I used to manager an IT Service Desk. The team worked one of 3 shifts (8-4, 9-5,10-6). We worked in Central London, and one of the key questions at interview was always 'Do you think you will struggle to make it in for these times?'
Now, for some reason, many people didn't seem to know how you check national rail time tables, or local bus or tube times. Several people actually physically could not make it in for 8am because transport didn't start early enough where they lived, and they couldn't possibly work till 6, as it didn't run late enough. I offered a 'value add' service to my role, and would find a great level of personal reward showing them how to check time tables, and showing them that the 06:24 service from their local station would get them in with plenty of time for the 0800 start, and that they really didn't have to wait for the 07:24, and turn up 20 minutes late.
My view had to always be the same. They chose to take the jobs, and they chose to live where they did. It was their responsibility to get to the office, rain or shine. It sounds cold hearted, but it isn't the 1960's anymore when offices put on buses to get people to work.
There were a few individuals who, for some unknown reason, felt that they didn't need to do what the rest of the team did. I had a couple of individuals who felt the slightest breeze or drop of rain would mean it was ok to text me the night before and say 'I might not be able to get in on time tomorrow because of the weather'.
My response was always the same - in the situations when the country wasn't under 20 foot of water or snow - 'you took this job with the understanding of its location, and your residence in relation to that. I expect you to make every effort to be in on time, even if this means not using your standard method of transport'. They didn't think it was 'fair' to have to get up earlier than normal to make this effort to get in.
I had to remind them that, they did actually work on average the lowest number of hours in IT, and upon progressing to a second line time, yes, they would stop working shifts, but they would also still need to help their team make up the 8-6 core hours cover period to support the systems, and regularly, have to stay later than that to recover systems from incidents.
I had some individuals who, regardless of how physically fit they were, wouldn't consider cycling the 4-6 miles they had to in order to get to the office in the event of a bus/tube strike or leave early due to well publicised engineering works. None of these people were thick, they just felt the employer was 'doing them a favour' or 'should be grateful they worked there'
I also lost count how many times I made it clear that, those shift times were the times they were expected to be logged in and available to take calls. They were not the times they
- Strolled into the office
- Waltzed around, catching up on the weekends activities
- Nipped to the drinks point to make a coffee
- Browsed the organisations for sale newsgroups
- Had their coat on ready to sprint out the second it ticked to the end of shift
It really always was the minority of people who did all of the above, and we really were a flexible team where we could be, but in other cases, it really was like trying to look after children.
It could be that you are nothing like the description above, and in which case, maybe you do have a case, but if you are the only person regularly struggling to get into the office on time to do your job, maybe you need to consider your position again.
I used to manager an IT Service Desk. The team worked one of 3 shifts (8-4, 9-5,10-6). We worked in Central London, and one of the key questions at interview was always 'Do you think you will struggle to make it in for these times?'
Now, for some reason, many people didn't seem to know how you check national rail time tables, or local bus or tube times. Several people actually physically could not make it in for 8am because transport didn't start early enough where they lived, and they couldn't possibly work till 6, as it didn't run late enough. I offered a 'value add' service to my role, and would find a great level of personal reward showing them how to check time tables, and showing them that the 06:24 service from their local station would get them in with plenty of time for the 0800 start, and that they really didn't have to wait for the 07:24, and turn up 20 minutes late.
My view had to always be the same. They chose to take the jobs, and they chose to live where they did. It was their responsibility to get to the office, rain or shine. It sounds cold hearted, but it isn't the 1960's anymore when offices put on buses to get people to work.
There were a few individuals who, for some unknown reason, felt that they didn't need to do what the rest of the team did. I had a couple of individuals who felt the slightest breeze or drop of rain would mean it was ok to text me the night before and say 'I might not be able to get in on time tomorrow because of the weather'.
My response was always the same - in the situations when the country wasn't under 20 foot of water or snow - 'you took this job with the understanding of its location, and your residence in relation to that. I expect you to make every effort to be in on time, even if this means not using your standard method of transport'. They didn't think it was 'fair' to have to get up earlier than normal to make this effort to get in.
I had to remind them that, they did actually work on average the lowest number of hours in IT, and upon progressing to a second line time, yes, they would stop working shifts, but they would also still need to help their team make up the 8-6 core hours cover period to support the systems, and regularly, have to stay later than that to recover systems from incidents.
I had some individuals who, regardless of how physically fit they were, wouldn't consider cycling the 4-6 miles they had to in order to get to the office in the event of a bus/tube strike or leave early due to well publicised engineering works. None of these people were thick, they just felt the employer was 'doing them a favour' or 'should be grateful they worked there'
I also lost count how many times I made it clear that, those shift times were the times they were expected to be logged in and available to take calls. They were not the times they
- Strolled into the office
- Waltzed around, catching up on the weekends activities
- Nipped to the drinks point to make a coffee
- Browsed the organisations for sale newsgroups
- Had their coat on ready to sprint out the second it ticked to the end of shift
It really always was the minority of people who did all of the above, and we really were a flexible team where we could be, but in other cases, it really was like trying to look after children.
It could be that you are nothing like the description above, and in which case, maybe you do have a case, but if you are the only person regularly struggling to get into the office on time to do your job, maybe you need to consider your position again.
I'm a software developer, so not a customer facing job. Unfortunately only one other person lives near me and works shifts so doesn't run into peak time issues.
I can agree that getting to work on time is important, but what I feel aggrieved about is ignoring the context of the situation, getting accused of lying, and then being told that whatever effort I make is going to be ignored anyway.
Better cut this short.. don't want to be late!
I can agree that getting to work on time is important, but what I feel aggrieved about is ignoring the context of the situation, getting accused of lying, and then being told that whatever effort I make is going to be ignored anyway.
Better cut this short.. don't want to be late!
Does your boss know you have a part time job? If so this could be the source of his behaviour.
I once worked for a boss who used the fact I had another job to rigorously police my starting and finishing times, I wound him up by making sure I was never late.
We would work past lunch time to finish a job off but he expected us to start back at the usual time and would stand there looking at his watch until we gave in.
When he pushed too far we simply dropped tools exactly on time, including finishing time. This caused no end of problems regarding parts ordering, workshop space, etc. and ended up with him having to pay us overtime for staying late when we previously did this willingly for free. Obviously this approach relies on being on time every morning without fail.
Later on I worked for a guy who was a lot more relaxed about this sort of thing, he was a brilliant boss and I would have walked over broken glass to help him, he was very well liked by everyone. However, this relaxed attitude led to people taking the mickey so I suppose the moral of the story is that it works both ways.
I once worked for a boss who used the fact I had another job to rigorously police my starting and finishing times, I wound him up by making sure I was never late.
We would work past lunch time to finish a job off but he expected us to start back at the usual time and would stand there looking at his watch until we gave in.
When he pushed too far we simply dropped tools exactly on time, including finishing time. This caused no end of problems regarding parts ordering, workshop space, etc. and ended up with him having to pay us overtime for staying late when we previously did this willingly for free. Obviously this approach relies on being on time every morning without fail.
Later on I worked for a guy who was a lot more relaxed about this sort of thing, he was a brilliant boss and I would have walked over broken glass to help him, he was very well liked by everyone. However, this relaxed attitude led to people taking the mickey so I suppose the moral of the story is that it works both ways.
I think as a boss you have to have a degree of flexibility where possible.
My OH is useless at getting out of bed. She's a 20 min drive from work, starts at 8:30 and was still in bed at 8:15.
Her boss is fine with her turning up at 9/9:30am because 9 times out of 10 she's still at her desk at 6:30pm when her contract states 8:30am - 5pm.
I do mega hours and miles some weeks so nobody bats an eyelid if I stroll in at midday occasionally.
Depends on the type of job of course.
My OH is useless at getting out of bed. She's a 20 min drive from work, starts at 8:30 and was still in bed at 8:15.
Her boss is fine with her turning up at 9/9:30am because 9 times out of 10 she's still at her desk at 6:30pm when her contract states 8:30am - 5pm.
I do mega hours and miles some weeks so nobody bats an eyelid if I stroll in at midday occasionally.
Depends on the type of job of course.
Seriously? 6 times late in a year..... that's feck all.
It's about give and take on both sides.
Your boss is suggesting that because there been floods - FLOODS FFS - you should work an extra hundred hours per year in case that situation arises again.
I'd be very angry about the accusation that time hasn't been made up too, maybe the OP should suggest he clocks in and clocks out for a few months just to show the actual hours he does?
This morning I set off at 6:50 (usually 7:30) but got caught by an accident on Park Lane which delayed me by 20 minutes. Still here in loads of time, but it's ridiculous to suggest you should leave earlier to allow for eventualities like that which happen once in a blue moon.....or 6 times a year.
OP, is it worth doing something ridiculously anal that your boss will understant such as emailing him "I'm here" when you arrive and "I'm about to leave" when you're logging off?
A couple of weeks of that and he'll A) have proof and B) get bored.
He sounds like an a****ole
It's about give and take on both sides.
Your boss is suggesting that because there been floods - FLOODS FFS - you should work an extra hundred hours per year in case that situation arises again.
I'd be very angry about the accusation that time hasn't been made up too, maybe the OP should suggest he clocks in and clocks out for a few months just to show the actual hours he does?
This morning I set off at 6:50 (usually 7:30) but got caught by an accident on Park Lane which delayed me by 20 minutes. Still here in loads of time, but it's ridiculous to suggest you should leave earlier to allow for eventualities like that which happen once in a blue moon.....or 6 times a year.
OP, is it worth doing something ridiculously anal that your boss will understant such as emailing him "I'm here" when you arrive and "I'm about to leave" when you're logging off?
A couple of weeks of that and he'll A) have proof and B) get bored.
He sounds like an a****ole
shouldbworking said:
I'm a software developer, so not a customer facing job. Unfortunately only one other person lives near me and works shifts so doesn't run into peak time issues.
I can agree that getting to work on time is important, but what I feel aggrieved about is ignoring the context of the situation, getting accused of lying, and then being told that whatever effort I make is going to be ignored anyway.
Better cut this short.. don't want to be late!
If the boss measures hard work as being on time, rather than making up the time lost/ staying late, thn its in your interest to be flexible like thisI can agree that getting to work on time is important, but what I feel aggrieved about is ignoring the context of the situation, getting accused of lying, and then being told that whatever effort I make is going to be ignored anyway.
Better cut this short.. don't want to be late!
Clearly 6 times in 2 months is an issue for the company. Up till 2 months ago you had no issue. Your boss is going overboard on the suggestions for arriving early as he wants to be able to get you in on time. As soon as you show a level of consistency in being on time do you really think he will criticise you for not being in 30 mins early every day?
Sometimes as a manager and an employer you have to state the obvious, over-egg the solution a bit, and help the employee help themselves.
You would not believe it but I had a diabetic employee a few years back with persistent absence and lateness. After a few meetings and discussions we had to plan his meal times and medication times for him and review this with him to ensure it was being done. This way we could take away the excuse of 'I forgot to take my medication' or 'my blood sugar level was low as I forgot or didn't have time to eat' etc.
Have a run of being on time and not sticking out and then see what the response it like with your boss.
Sometimes as a manager and an employer you have to state the obvious, over-egg the solution a bit, and help the employee help themselves.
You would not believe it but I had a diabetic employee a few years back with persistent absence and lateness. After a few meetings and discussions we had to plan his meal times and medication times for him and review this with him to ensure it was being done. This way we could take away the excuse of 'I forgot to take my medication' or 'my blood sugar level was low as I forgot or didn't have time to eat' etc.
Have a run of being on time and not sticking out and then see what the response it like with your boss.
So aim to get there 10 mins before. Wait in the car until you are due in. Leave dead on the time your day ends. Stop working unpaid overtime if he isn't going to acknowledge it.
There is no excuse for lateness though. I know my commute to work can fluctuate. One day it can take me 20 mins, the next it can take 45mins and that's with no incident involved, just the number of people on the road. I start at 9:00. Aim to be at my parking spot for 8:30 but often arrive 15 mins early or a little bit later. The walk in from the car park takes 15 mins and so I usually get into work for 8:45. This gives me time to have a piss, get a brew or just set up, ready to go for 9am. Aiming to arrive dead on your start time is daft if your boss is going to pick on you about lateness. Do yourself a favour.
There is no excuse for lateness though. I know my commute to work can fluctuate. One day it can take me 20 mins, the next it can take 45mins and that's with no incident involved, just the number of people on the road. I start at 9:00. Aim to be at my parking spot for 8:30 but often arrive 15 mins early or a little bit later. The walk in from the car park takes 15 mins and so I usually get into work for 8:45. This gives me time to have a piss, get a brew or just set up, ready to go for 9am. Aiming to arrive dead on your start time is daft if your boss is going to pick on you about lateness. Do yourself a favour.
shouldbworking said:
And.. having calmed down, regardless of whether or not I get accused of lying, and regardless of whether or not extra effort is appreciated, 2 months is plenty of time to notice different travel conditions and adapt accordingly.
fksocks. Time to get eat some humble pie.
For me I t is all relative to what you do and how you run your workload.f
ksocks. Time to get eat some humble pie.No one bats an eyelid if I say I’m going to be in at 10 tomorrow as I leave or if I am in 10 minutes late as I am, to a very large degree, my own boss and it is well known that if you call the office at seven at night it will either be me or the Senior Partner who answers the phone. It helps that he, like me, is not a ‘morning’ person unless we have to be!
But that is my World and not yours.
I would be p’ed off if my secretary was in at 9:15 6 times in the last 2 months without very good reason. I would pull her up on it but I would also say that I understand that she works almost all of almost every lunch break and is often in the office and working well before 8:30. It’s give and take.
Of all the things that the OP has said the one that would get my goat the most is the accusation of lying. As such, in future, I would make a point of sending them an e-mail every time that I leave the office more than 10 minutes later than the official time and every time I arrived, and started working, more than 10 minutes early. Within a couple the boss will be asking why you are bothering them with this and you can say with a straight face that you intensely dislike being accused of lying and that to are ensuring that he is in full possession of the detail the number of unpaid hours you put in and so will not feel the need to question your integrity again.
But then I would be looking for a new job anyway if my boss had accused me of lying and I knew that I was being 100% accurate.
My work day is 8am to 5pm, I tend to be in around 7:45am (I leave the house at 7am).
I'd say at least once a fortnight I will get in at around 8:10am due to traffic. It has never been an issue as I tend to work late and through my lunch.
If your boss is pulling you on this, it would lead me to think that you either; run your work life by the clock (packed up and ready to go on the dot, always take exact breaks etc) or he is miffed about something else and chalking this up as another bad mark.
What sort of overtime are you doing and how often?
To be honest, the fact you talk about 'reward' for doing overtime doesn't really paint a good picture of your work ethic (That's not a dig, just based on what I'm reading).
My estimator starts the same time as me (8am), he is in at 7:15am on the dot, every day, just in case there is issues on the motorway. Therefore, if he has an appointment or needs to leave/get in a few hours early, I happily let him have the time off.
It's all about give and take.
I'd say at least once a fortnight I will get in at around 8:10am due to traffic. It has never been an issue as I tend to work late and through my lunch.
If your boss is pulling you on this, it would lead me to think that you either; run your work life by the clock (packed up and ready to go on the dot, always take exact breaks etc) or he is miffed about something else and chalking this up as another bad mark.
What sort of overtime are you doing and how often?
To be honest, the fact you talk about 'reward' for doing overtime doesn't really paint a good picture of your work ethic (That's not a dig, just based on what I'm reading).
My estimator starts the same time as me (8am), he is in at 7:15am on the dot, every day, just in case there is issues on the motorway. Therefore, if he has an appointment or needs to leave/get in a few hours early, I happily let him have the time off.
It's all about give and take.
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