Does it take long to climb the ladder now?
Discussion
Several things have made me think this recently, speaking to older people, those who did well at school or uni seemed to go into top positions almost straight away. No trainee management roles but just straight into the role proper.
I look at some of the changes being made in my company now and they are the sorts of things I saw when I started 10 years ago - but would have been too young to have been given the position to make those changes when I left uni.
Reading books about WW2 and Bletchly Park - many of those running departments etc were early - mid twenties, top spy and intelligence roles taken by those in their 30's.
People I know now even with great qualifications all seem to be on a more steady rise where each "level" of management is only really available at a certain age.
It'd that's right it's strange that in modern times where we view ourselves as more liberal and open to youth, imagination and creativity etc we are less like this than we were 50 years ago
I look at some of the changes being made in my company now and they are the sorts of things I saw when I started 10 years ago - but would have been too young to have been given the position to make those changes when I left uni.
Reading books about WW2 and Bletchly Park - many of those running departments etc were early - mid twenties, top spy and intelligence roles taken by those in their 30's.
People I know now even with great qualifications all seem to be on a more steady rise where each "level" of management is only really available at a certain age.
It'd that's right it's strange that in modern times where we view ourselves as more liberal and open to youth, imagination and creativity etc we are less like this than we were 50 years ago
I work for a very large US oil company and it takes ages to be promoted to senior levels, its 50% to do with qualifications and what university you went to and 50% if your face fits/coffee lounge networking. Only good bit is they develop all managers from within so you know they wont employ someone from the street to be the next manager of your department.
I guess you have to view these type of careers as long term, we all work to at least 60 these days....
I guess you have to view these type of careers as long term, we all work to at least 60 these days....
depends on the maturity of the Industry to some extent and the maturity of the businesses in them , (also stuff like being a plc vs a private company and the effect this has on strategy)
the computer company bosess were young in the 1970s / 1980s it's in some cases till the same people now ( Gates remained president / chair of MS until very recently even though he;d stepped back fro mthe CEO role , Jobs would still be in post if he'd not been a tree hugging drip when it came ot treat ment ... )
the Social media bosses are generally young ...
the computer company bosess were young in the 1970s / 1980s it's in some cases till the same people now ( Gates remained president / chair of MS until very recently even though he;d stepped back fro mthe CEO role , Jobs would still be in post if he'd not been a tree hugging drip when it came ot treat ment ... )
the Social media bosses are generally young ...
Who knows, I think you just take your chances with opportunities when they arise.
The guy who was UK president of a company I worked for told us his story. As a young apprentice he'd seen that when they modernised and got new machinery, they could make all the parts they needed in 2 days. The company would then just leave the machines idle. He thought they could make more money by contracting out the free time to others who want parts made. Of he went to the manager, put forward his case and was basically told to go away and do it. The rest as they say, is history. That mushroomed into a management role, then he eventually headed the company. Then head hunted for similar exec roles which is where he remains.
My OH's dad must have had a similar path. When he was young, he'd left school at 16 and by his 20's was running all over the caribbean setting up the telecoms network! by late 30's early 40's I think he ended up as CEO of a very large asian satellite network.
Could those things happen today? sure. The latter definitely. If you are clever and driven and can make the most of opportunity I reckon you could make CEO or at least very high level in an already established, large company by 40 year old. Though if you left school today at 16 with barely a GCE to your name I doubt you'd find many chances to go anywhere like the caribbean!
The former? well I think something like that wouldn't be given to the apprentice who'd just thought of it. It'd be handed off to a committee or someone more senior and then passed off as their accomplishment instead. Besides, a lot of companies are now switched on to things like that now anyway, so the opportunity wouldn't arise in the first place.
Of course, with todays technology, new and different opportunities present themselves instead...
The guy who was UK president of a company I worked for told us his story. As a young apprentice he'd seen that when they modernised and got new machinery, they could make all the parts they needed in 2 days. The company would then just leave the machines idle. He thought they could make more money by contracting out the free time to others who want parts made. Of he went to the manager, put forward his case and was basically told to go away and do it. The rest as they say, is history. That mushroomed into a management role, then he eventually headed the company. Then head hunted for similar exec roles which is where he remains.
My OH's dad must have had a similar path. When he was young, he'd left school at 16 and by his 20's was running all over the caribbean setting up the telecoms network! by late 30's early 40's I think he ended up as CEO of a very large asian satellite network.
Could those things happen today? sure. The latter definitely. If you are clever and driven and can make the most of opportunity I reckon you could make CEO or at least very high level in an already established, large company by 40 year old. Though if you left school today at 16 with barely a GCE to your name I doubt you'd find many chances to go anywhere like the caribbean!
The former? well I think something like that wouldn't be given to the apprentice who'd just thought of it. It'd be handed off to a committee or someone more senior and then passed off as their accomplishment instead. Besides, a lot of companies are now switched on to things like that now anyway, so the opportunity wouldn't arise in the first place.
Of course, with todays technology, new and different opportunities present themselves instead...
I think youth can succeed in industries with emerging technologies where there is little or no prior experience, if you are a visionary you can make great strides in a short period of time. In more established industries you trade more on your wits, manage upstream relationships, impress the right people, maintain flexibility in the face of constant change.....you should soon find yourself climbing the ladder.
I moved jobs 2yrs ago for the same reason, I was a senior manager in a major Telco at 31, but I could see my career progression beyond that point was going to be limited. I moved to a faster paced industry, used my enterprise experience to guide a smaller start-up organisation to operate at scale and created better opportunities for myself.
I moved jobs 2yrs ago for the same reason, I was a senior manager in a major Telco at 31, but I could see my career progression beyond that point was going to be limited. I moved to a faster paced industry, used my enterprise experience to guide a smaller start-up organisation to operate at scale and created better opportunities for myself.
I think it varies hugely on industry and the firm within that industry. Microsoft and Twitter are both technology companies, but I'd imagine progression in Twitter would be faster.
It also varies on whether you are part of that firms 'core business'. A crude example, but if you work in IT a Sainsbury's, you'll only really be "shiny" in the IT Department unless you have a customer facing role.
There is also the old 'not what you know but who you know' and that really is very, very relevant. People get upset about it, but you can't help it if you are a likeable reliable individual and you just happen to be in the right place at the right time. I've seen it happen, and never felt bad about it. I've jumped at the chance when it came my way, and if you are willing to be pro-active, you stand as much chance as anyone else... as long as you fit in.
I think the other issue is, the size of the company. You simply aren't going to come in as a graduate/trainee, and get to the board in 5 years, in a company of several thousand people.
I do actually think the days of 'I started on the shop floor' from CEO's is disappearing, along with people who stay in the same company all their lives. Many companies actively recruit senior roles externally to get in fresh ideas. I can't say I blame them in some cases, but its good to look after your own staff too so they can see progression.
It also varies on whether you are part of that firms 'core business'. A crude example, but if you work in IT a Sainsbury's, you'll only really be "shiny" in the IT Department unless you have a customer facing role.
There is also the old 'not what you know but who you know' and that really is very, very relevant. People get upset about it, but you can't help it if you are a likeable reliable individual and you just happen to be in the right place at the right time. I've seen it happen, and never felt bad about it. I've jumped at the chance when it came my way, and if you are willing to be pro-active, you stand as much chance as anyone else... as long as you fit in.
I think the other issue is, the size of the company. You simply aren't going to come in as a graduate/trainee, and get to the board in 5 years, in a company of several thousand people.
I do actually think the days of 'I started on the shop floor' from CEO's is disappearing, along with people who stay in the same company all their lives. Many companies actively recruit senior roles externally to get in fresh ideas. I can't say I blame them in some cases, but its good to look after your own staff too so they can see progression.
Unfortunately there can only be a handful that make it to the top (i.e. the board & CEO). A case of lots of people and very few seats to put bums on at the top of the chain.
Networking and being in the 'boys club' helps no end, plus a huge dollop of luck; I'm certain on that, especially with the big multi nationals. It's sad but true; it doesn't matter if you're the greatest engineer with a brilliant vision - if your face doesn't fit in with those at the top, you're going to remain where you are.
At the end of the day you're dealing with humans - which are a mixed bag. If you have some a
ehole above you, you're not going very far but if you got on with those deemed higher up then guess who'll come knocking on your door when a new position is made available.
Essentially, brown nosing helps a lot. Probably why I don't get very far as I cannot stand it. In my ideal world people will be promoted / lead based on merit and experience - not through having a few coffee's together, but hey ho.
Networking and being in the 'boys club' helps no end, plus a huge dollop of luck; I'm certain on that, especially with the big multi nationals. It's sad but true; it doesn't matter if you're the greatest engineer with a brilliant vision - if your face doesn't fit in with those at the top, you're going to remain where you are.
At the end of the day you're dealing with humans - which are a mixed bag. If you have some a
ehole above you, you're not going very far but if you got on with those deemed higher up then guess who'll come knocking on your door when a new position is made available.Essentially, brown nosing helps a lot. Probably why I don't get very far as I cannot stand it. In my ideal world people will be promoted / lead based on merit and experience - not through having a few coffee's together, but hey ho.
conanius said:
I think the other issue is, the size of the company. You simply aren't going to come in as a graduate/trainee, and get to the board in 5 years, in a company of several thousand people.
I think this is one of the most relevant factors, not only that but nous counts for a lot more than grades imo.It's NOT a ladder. It's a Staircase but there's a glass screen horizontally positioned across, so the tts above can dangle a carrot of jam tomorrow, and you keep bashing your head on the glass.
Different people have the glass positioned at different heights, but you eventually get to the point where you are no longer any good at what you do, and are fairly mediocre, and spend the rest of your working life trying not to get fired.
Then you go contracting.
ts above can dangle a carrot of jam tomorrow, and you keep bashing your head on the glass. Different people have the glass positioned at different heights, but you eventually get to the point where you are no longer any good at what you do, and are fairly mediocre, and spend the rest of your working life trying not to get fired.
Then you go contracting.
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