Very hard time in the job market
Discussion
It seems I underestimated how hard it was to get a job. I'm in a pretty tough place at the moment tbh.
I moved up to Hatfield from South Devon at the beginning of January. I had a new job as a Business Development Manager at an it reseller in Islington. This started on the 13th Jan and 3 weeks later I was told that 'maybe new business isn't for you'. Now I had no job. I hated that jib and I think they may have known.
Fast forward to now and I have just finished a temporary job that was meant to last 2 weeks but only lasted one. I haven't been able to claim jsa either as I haven't paid in enough (?!?!?!?!).
I have a (not very good) degree in mechanical engineering and as well as the engineering jobs I have always fancied estate agency or car sales. I have approached a few estate agents but to no avail. I have rung some dealerships but I am planning on visiting some on Monday.
I have had quite a few interviews but still nothing.
I am keeping a really open mind on what jobs to do as really interesting things can appear that you haven't thought of but the lack of results is becoming really disheartening.
Unsure why I'm posting this but there you go, I suppose I just wanted to say it.
Apologies for the massive post, any advise would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Bob
P.S. I look on Monster and other websites every day and I'm with a couple of recruiters. All have been quite rubbish.
I moved up to Hatfield from South Devon at the beginning of January. I had a new job as a Business Development Manager at an it reseller in Islington. This started on the 13th Jan and 3 weeks later I was told that 'maybe new business isn't for you'. Now I had no job. I hated that jib and I think they may have known.
Fast forward to now and I have just finished a temporary job that was meant to last 2 weeks but only lasted one. I haven't been able to claim jsa either as I haven't paid in enough (?!?!?!?!).
I have a (not very good) degree in mechanical engineering and as well as the engineering jobs I have always fancied estate agency or car sales. I have approached a few estate agents but to no avail. I have rung some dealerships but I am planning on visiting some on Monday.
I have had quite a few interviews but still nothing.
I am keeping a really open mind on what jobs to do as really interesting things can appear that you haven't thought of but the lack of results is becoming really disheartening.
Unsure why I'm posting this but there you go, I suppose I just wanted to say it.
Apologies for the massive post, any advise would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Bob
P.S. I look on Monster and other websites every day and I'm with a couple of recruiters. All have been quite rubbish.
When I was job hunting I found Monster to be utter rubbish, everlastingly sending me jobs that weren't relevant to me as they'd picked up on single key words in my CV. For technical stuff I found Jobsite to be way better. If you're going to see a few estate agents and car dealerships to see if they've got any jobs ask where they usually recruit from even if they haven't got any openings now, as you can target those sites or agencies.
Even if you don't qualify for JSA make sure you sign on with the job centre as it means your national insurance will be paid.
Even if you don't qualify for JSA make sure you sign on with the job centre as it means your national insurance will be paid.
) until the right job comes along.Sorry to hear that gingerbob. My advice would be (slightly ironically) to start a spreadsheet of job 'prospects' and apply to as many as possible, tracking them using the spreadsheet. Get as many application, phone interviews and interviews lined up.
Tailor you cover letter and CV to the job. The CV should be two pages, no more.
I am hiring for a role at the moment and have been surprised (again) about the carelessness of most candidates - errors on a CV, a generic cover letter, a complete lack of basic research about the company (ie "what do you know about us and why did you apply" answer "dunno really"). You can get ahead of 90% of applicants with 10 minutes work!
One guy turned up in a rugby shirt and jeans... not a great start.
Treat this process as your job for the next few weeks, trawl every single job site (google your desired job role) and the best of luck.
Tailor you cover letter and CV to the job. The CV should be two pages, no more.
I am hiring for a role at the moment and have been surprised (again) about the carelessness of most candidates - errors on a CV, a generic cover letter, a complete lack of basic research about the company (ie "what do you know about us and why did you apply" answer "dunno really"). You can get ahead of 90% of applicants with 10 minutes work!
One guy turned up in a rugby shirt and jeans... not a great start.
Treat this process as your job for the next few weeks, trawl every single job site (google your desired job role) and the best of luck.
Also, ask for feedback on your interviews - I will always give feedback to a candidate if they request it.
Edit, and ensure you are able to answer common interview questions - every interview I conduct I walk in with this list (too lazy to make another myself) to lob a couple of 'easy win' questions into the mix to see whether a candidate has prepared: Forbes top 50 most common interview questions - pick out the ones that apply to you and answer the question. You should be able to answer any of these that apply to you - and they will be instant 'wins' compared to other candidates if you have prepared them.
Edit, and ensure you are able to answer common interview questions - every interview I conduct I walk in with this list (too lazy to make another myself) to lob a couple of 'easy win' questions into the mix to see whether a candidate has prepared: Forbes top 50 most common interview questions - pick out the ones that apply to you and answer the question. You should be able to answer any of these that apply to you - and they will be instant 'wins' compared to other candidates if you have prepared them.
Edited by 0a on Saturday 22 March 18:56
Found the same last year, it's brutal and a complete brawl.
I organised my mornings trawling LinkedIn, Jobsite, Monster and the usual places, then started canvassing in the afternoon after a bit of lunch. I knew the type of companies I wanted to work for so looked them up, found the Sales Director (HR tended to get in the way) and either mailed them or pitched them on a cold call.
My plan was if I got calls/contacts that would lead to meetings which led to interviews which led to figuring out whether I could work there if they'd have me. Massive funnel
Dont take your last jobs ideas on your skills too much to heart. It might be that what they wanted isnt how you want to work, and that's fine, just a differing opinion, doesnt make it true. It could be, ask yourself, do you want to be cold calling sniffing out new opps and developing them? It's hard to do well, and there's a lot of knock backs and thick skin required, and that can hurt if you take it personally.
I organised my mornings trawling LinkedIn, Jobsite, Monster and the usual places, then started canvassing in the afternoon after a bit of lunch. I knew the type of companies I wanted to work for so looked them up, found the Sales Director (HR tended to get in the way) and either mailed them or pitched them on a cold call.
My plan was if I got calls/contacts that would lead to meetings which led to interviews which led to figuring out whether I could work there if they'd have me. Massive funnel
Dont take your last jobs ideas on your skills too much to heart. It might be that what they wanted isnt how you want to work, and that's fine, just a differing opinion, doesnt make it true. It could be, ask yourself, do you want to be cold calling sniffing out new opps and developing them? It's hard to do well, and there's a lot of knock backs and thick skin required, and that can hurt if you take it personally.
There is nothing but good, solid and sensible advice from those above, and little I could add to that except;
As davepoth says; it sounds like you are flailing a bit. Easily done when you are feeling a bit unsure or desperate. Getting some focus at this stage is very important, so reading all the above and considering the advice, then re-reading again, would be my first suggestion.
You might want to seriously consider your local Executive Job Club. They are government run and free and your job centre can tell you about them.
Some years ago, when John Major's government brought these in, they were a huge benefit.
I attended initially because they provided basic 'computers' (Amstrad PCWs to be precise
), free paper, free envelopes, (some) free phone calls, and free postage, because that is how things were done then, and all of those things cost a lot of money at the time.
Also, and very importantly, some very good advice on producing a useful CV.
What I didn't expect to gain, and was of almost equal benefit, was the advice and experience of other members in a similar position to mine. Many were quite a bit older than myself, and in this position for the first time in their lives, but I learned quite a lot, especially from the older members, and it helped to focus me at the time.
In the end I sent out approximately 1300 letters with CVs to around 700 companies, and landed a pretty good job.
As a result of designing and building a simple database for the purpose, and programming automated mail shots that appeared to be 100% 'hand' written, I found myself becoming an amateur systems designer as part of my new job, and eventually re-trained, left construction management and now consult as a database/technical architect and software engineer, developer, and ERP systems implementer.
My eternal thanks to 'the grey man'.
(John Major also spearheaded the retraining for work program that I benefited from)
Times are still hard.
Talk of recovery from the recession do not relate to the average person in the street, they refer to company statistics, not people statistics.
You are very much not alone out there.
As davepoth says; it sounds like you are flailing a bit. Easily done when you are feeling a bit unsure or desperate. Getting some focus at this stage is very important, so reading all the above and considering the advice, then re-reading again, would be my first suggestion.
You might want to seriously consider your local Executive Job Club. They are government run and free and your job centre can tell you about them.
Some years ago, when John Major's government brought these in, they were a huge benefit.
I attended initially because they provided basic 'computers' (Amstrad PCWs to be precise
), free paper, free envelopes, (some) free phone calls, and free postage, because that is how things were done then, and all of those things cost a lot of money at the time.Also, and very importantly, some very good advice on producing a useful CV.
What I didn't expect to gain, and was of almost equal benefit, was the advice and experience of other members in a similar position to mine. Many were quite a bit older than myself, and in this position for the first time in their lives, but I learned quite a lot, especially from the older members, and it helped to focus me at the time.
In the end I sent out approximately 1300 letters with CVs to around 700 companies, and landed a pretty good job.
As a result of designing and building a simple database for the purpose, and programming automated mail shots that appeared to be 100% 'hand' written, I found myself becoming an amateur systems designer as part of my new job, and eventually re-trained, left construction management and now consult as a database/technical architect and software engineer, developer, and ERP systems implementer.
My eternal thanks to 'the grey man'.
(John Major also spearheaded the retraining for work program that I benefited from)
Times are still hard.
Talk of recovery from the recession do not relate to the average person in the street, they refer to company statistics, not people statistics.
You are very much not alone out there.
You will remember this time for the rest of your life. This has probably given you the ambition and passion to be successful working for yourself long term.
Short term, sounds like you're young so don't worry about money. If no wife/kids, get to ibiza in the summer, party hard and live life. Chill on the beach and find a strategy, come home and do it!
No one needs money till their 30s really, in your twenties you should be out having fun!
Short term, sounds like you're young so don't worry about money. If no wife/kids, get to ibiza in the summer, party hard and live life. Chill on the beach and find a strategy, come home and do it!
No one needs money till their 30s really, in your twenties you should be out having fun!
The market is indeed tough unless you are well connected. I was in your shoes more than one time in my life - most recent one just few years back.
You need to first narrow down what you actually want to do. IT reseller and estate agent sounds like two very different careers.
Don't only stick to Monster, use all available websites out there. Update your LinkedIn profile. If you are still interested in IT path also try to setup a simple website with your portfolio. Do some Microsoft courses in the mean time if you can.
I don't know your age, background or circumstances but if you are still young and don't have a family then by all means try out what's available but otherwise you will need to sit down and think of a career path you definitely want to pursue. I have Engineering degrees too but now a systems analyst; even though my degree is technically not relevant I find that if presented in the right way in CVs it does help open doors.
You need to first narrow down what you actually want to do. IT reseller and estate agent sounds like two very different careers.
Don't only stick to Monster, use all available websites out there. Update your LinkedIn profile. If you are still interested in IT path also try to setup a simple website with your portfolio. Do some Microsoft courses in the mean time if you can.
I don't know your age, background or circumstances but if you are still young and don't have a family then by all means try out what's available but otherwise you will need to sit down and think of a career path you definitely want to pursue. I have Engineering degrees too but now a systems analyst; even though my degree is technically not relevant I find that if presented in the right way in CVs it does help open doors.
Up till last year I was in the same boat. Had a good degree, additional professional qualifications and 25 years unbroken employment. My problem was that the sector I worked (construction)was completely floored, jobs were very few and far between whilst there were lots of very able, very well qualified and experienced surveyors all applying for the same jobs as me.
In this environment employers could afford to be very picky. The relevance of your experience and qualifications to the position applied for had to be absolute (who needs to make use of a candidates transferable skills when you could get an employee of an old competitor who did exactly the same job, using the same systems and softwear and has an established working relationship with the same subcontractors you use). It was tough.
Internet websites were pretty much useless. No contact details of advertising prospective employers, just send your cv to quoted email address. I got the feeling most of the jobs advertised were dummies to enable recruitment consultants to trawl for a pile a CVs to present to clients in better times.
How does one deal with this? First get a job, any job. I took every s
tty, self employed, poorly paid, short term consultancy position I could get. Between gigs I worked part-time walking dogs and mucking out stables. It was a brilliant sort of job for someone like me. It kept up routines and gave me a sense of purpose which in turn keeps you employable. It gave me something positive to talk about in interviews and was a subject where quite a few prospective employers' eyes lit up once I started to enthuse about what I was doing at the moment. It is a damn site more positive than "actively seeking employment. It also puts more pennies in your pocket than JSA (and a damn site more than no JSA). Secondly forget the net jobsites. Research who you want to work for and approach them directly. Like someone else said avoid HR and go to the managers of the departments you want to work. Make sure your CV is tweaked to emphasize the most relevant skills, qualifications and experience to the position (I almost had a different CV for every position I applied for).
Stay positive, and remember, things ARE picking up.
In this environment employers could afford to be very picky. The relevance of your experience and qualifications to the position applied for had to be absolute (who needs to make use of a candidates transferable skills when you could get an employee of an old competitor who did exactly the same job, using the same systems and softwear and has an established working relationship with the same subcontractors you use). It was tough.
Internet websites were pretty much useless. No contact details of advertising prospective employers, just send your cv to quoted email address. I got the feeling most of the jobs advertised were dummies to enable recruitment consultants to trawl for a pile a CVs to present to clients in better times.
How does one deal with this? First get a job, any job. I took every s
tty, self employed, poorly paid, short term consultancy position I could get. Between gigs I worked part-time walking dogs and mucking out stables. It was a brilliant sort of job for someone like me. It kept up routines and gave me a sense of purpose which in turn keeps you employable. It gave me something positive to talk about in interviews and was a subject where quite a few prospective employers' eyes lit up once I started to enthuse about what I was doing at the moment. It is a damn site more positive than "actively seeking employment. It also puts more pennies in your pocket than JSA (and a damn site more than no JSA). Secondly forget the net jobsites. Research who you want to work for and approach them directly. Like someone else said avoid HR and go to the managers of the departments you want to work. Make sure your CV is tweaked to emphasize the most relevant skills, qualifications and experience to the position (I almost had a different CV for every position I applied for). Stay positive, and remember, things ARE picking up.
Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Tuesday 25th March 23:32
Thank you everyone for the advise.
I think I probably am flailing a bit, I'm getting worried about not having a job.
I'm going to really focus on what I want to do and start with that. I'm going to go out this afternoon and list all the different places there are to work around here. I will then go out canvassing if you think that's a good idea.
I had never heard of the Executive Job Club, I will check it out.
Regarding my degree classification, a third isn't too impressive from an employers point of view.
I'm going to try and get some more temp work. The problem with Tesco and Sainsbury's is that they seem to look at my degree then throw me away. Temp jobs obviously don't do this so I believe that this is the way forward for now.
In the wise words of the now irritatingly over-used WWII poster, keep calm and carry on, it's all there is to do.
I think I probably am flailing a bit, I'm getting worried about not having a job.
I'm going to really focus on what I want to do and start with that. I'm going to go out this afternoon and list all the different places there are to work around here. I will then go out canvassing if you think that's a good idea.
I had never heard of the Executive Job Club, I will check it out.
Regarding my degree classification, a third isn't too impressive from an employers point of view.
I'm going to try and get some more temp work. The problem with Tesco and Sainsbury's is that they seem to look at my degree then throw me away. Temp jobs obviously don't do this so I believe that this is the way forward for now.
In the wise words of the now irritatingly over-used WWII poster, keep calm and carry on, it's all there is to do.
Tannedbaldhead said:
How does one deal with this? First get a job, any job. I took every stty, self employed, poorly paid, short term consultancy position I could get. Between gigs I walked dogs and mucked out stables. It was a brilliant sort of job for someone like me. It kept up routines and gave me a sense of purpose which in turn keeps you employable. It gave me something positive to talk about in interviews and was a subject where quite a few prospective employers' eyes lit up once I started to enthuse about what I was doing at the moment.
Don't underestimate this point. I was out for work for 5 months and it's very easy to get despondent, and start lying in until mid day, which makes you even more depressed. Get yourself a routine that gets you up and ready to go at a sensible time, even if it's just ensuring you're up, dressed and on your PC checking the job sites by 9am. In my case, I built a greenhouse, and got a few days doing some basic IT contract jobs via a mate who was a bit overloaded and helped another mate with some decorating. In hindsight I should have done a bit of voluntary work for a local charity as well.tty, self employed, poorly paid, short term consultancy position I could get. Between gigs I walked dogs and mucked out stables. It was a brilliant sort of job for someone like me. It kept up routines and gave me a sense of purpose which in turn keeps you employable. It gave me something positive to talk about in interviews and was a subject where quite a few prospective employers' eyes lit up once I started to enthuse about what I was doing at the moment. BigGingerBob said:
Regarding my degree classification, a third isn't too impressive from an employers point of view.
I'm going to try and get some more temp work. The problem with Tesco and Sainsbury's is that they seem to look at my degree then throw me away. Temp jobs obviously don't do this so I believe that this is the way forward for now.
If I was in your shoes, I'd remove your degree classification from your CV. If they ask you tell them, but a simple Bsc or whatever from such and such Uni is sufficient. I'm going to try and get some more temp work. The problem with Tesco and Sainsbury's is that they seem to look at my degree then throw me away. Temp jobs obviously don't do this so I believe that this is the way forward for now.
Also, if you're applying to Tesco type jobs. Dumb it down and just have your experience, with the skills you can bring to that particular job. You will be over qualified for sure, but there's plenty in the same boat working there. You've still got to sell yourself to that job, not think that just because you did a higher skilled job that they will automatically think you're suitable because it's "only retail".
Might also be worthwhile networking as you never know what opportunities are out there. I found a new contract via meetup.com when I was just using it for social/fun purposes. The contract is perfect for my business and I wouldn't have found it doing the usual business generation activities that I do!
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