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Bit of a whinge really, at nothing or no one in particular... perhaps the game.
As a bit of background myself and my OH have done our undergrads, masters and PhD's at the same uni. She's simply awaiting graduation for completing her PhD. I am a little bit behind still writing up. Anyway its job hunting time and while it didn't take me long at all, my OH is struggling to find employment.
A job popped up at the uni and to be honest, given her nearly 10 year life at the uni my OH was extremely well matched. Lacking a little experience perhaps, but all other boxes ticked and then some. She filled in the lengthy application and got an interview. In cynical hindsight I think her still being classed as "internal" was a deciding factor in that as I will come on to in a minute.
Interview was at 3pm the other day and they had probably another 4 or so people to interview over the course of the day. In at 3, out by 4 and by 4:45 they'd told her no. Perhaps the interview hadn't gone too well. To their credit they phoned the next day to offer feedback and, if they are to be believed, the interview apparently went very well. They were very happy with her presentation and her ideas, said she had excellent personality for the role and that the only let down was a lack of significant relevant experience. She had some, but nothing major (the role is working with international students which she has done a bit of before).
A person who was also an ex-uni graduate with a few years experience got the role.
Now basically, knowing how things work around there, I reckon they had someone lined up for the job before any of the interviewing happened. I mean they interviewed a good number of people and assuming the interview went as well as it did, they wrote her off within an hour. Perhaps the other candidate was stellar... I don't know, I'm theorising. The department also has a number of assistants and junior positions who'd be perfect for a move up.
But they have form of this kind of thing. For instance a job appeared within my OH's own department, within her area of expertise. She'd have been a total shoe-in. A slightly higher up friend who is very good friends with the dept head, privy to insider info basically told her not to bother applying. Why? the job had been written specifically with a person in mind who was just finishing their PhD. No one else was getting this job, but the rules they have mean they have to advertise internally and externally and interview people.
In-fact this is how my OH got her PhD. It was basically written as a follow on to her masters project! Again no one else was realistically going to be offered the grant but they had to advertise it. They would have had to interview applicants but helpfully, no one applied.
So my gripe isn't the fact she didn't get the job. There are other jobs to apply for. Its the fact that they blatantly have who they want picked out and lined up already to go but the stupid rules mean they have to set up this drawn out masquerade of advertising and interviewing other candidates to prove they're being fair and equal.
What is the point? Its a complete waste of everyones time, especially the interviewees. My OH spent an inordinate amount of time researching for the interview, time she could have spent on applying for jobs that weren't possibly foregone conclusions. Its an insane policy. I am not sure its a legal requirement but thats how they operate here and its a complete nonsense. They should just let them chose the person they want, from inside and just get them into the role asap so they can get to work and progress things. This facade of advertising and interviewing others just to pretend like you're being fair is just bad and gets peoples hopes up for nothing.
As a bit of background myself and my OH have done our undergrads, masters and PhD's at the same uni. She's simply awaiting graduation for completing her PhD. I am a little bit behind still writing up. Anyway its job hunting time and while it didn't take me long at all, my OH is struggling to find employment.
A job popped up at the uni and to be honest, given her nearly 10 year life at the uni my OH was extremely well matched. Lacking a little experience perhaps, but all other boxes ticked and then some. She filled in the lengthy application and got an interview. In cynical hindsight I think her still being classed as "internal" was a deciding factor in that as I will come on to in a minute.
Interview was at 3pm the other day and they had probably another 4 or so people to interview over the course of the day. In at 3, out by 4 and by 4:45 they'd told her no. Perhaps the interview hadn't gone too well. To their credit they phoned the next day to offer feedback and, if they are to be believed, the interview apparently went very well. They were very happy with her presentation and her ideas, said she had excellent personality for the role and that the only let down was a lack of significant relevant experience. She had some, but nothing major (the role is working with international students which she has done a bit of before).
A person who was also an ex-uni graduate with a few years experience got the role.
Now basically, knowing how things work around there, I reckon they had someone lined up for the job before any of the interviewing happened. I mean they interviewed a good number of people and assuming the interview went as well as it did, they wrote her off within an hour. Perhaps the other candidate was stellar... I don't know, I'm theorising. The department also has a number of assistants and junior positions who'd be perfect for a move up.
But they have form of this kind of thing. For instance a job appeared within my OH's own department, within her area of expertise. She'd have been a total shoe-in. A slightly higher up friend who is very good friends with the dept head, privy to insider info basically told her not to bother applying. Why? the job had been written specifically with a person in mind who was just finishing their PhD. No one else was getting this job, but the rules they have mean they have to advertise internally and externally and interview people.
In-fact this is how my OH got her PhD. It was basically written as a follow on to her masters project! Again no one else was realistically going to be offered the grant but they had to advertise it. They would have had to interview applicants but helpfully, no one applied.
So my gripe isn't the fact she didn't get the job. There are other jobs to apply for. Its the fact that they blatantly have who they want picked out and lined up already to go but the stupid rules mean they have to set up this drawn out masquerade of advertising and interviewing other candidates to prove they're being fair and equal.
What is the point? Its a complete waste of everyones time, especially the interviewees. My OH spent an inordinate amount of time researching for the interview, time she could have spent on applying for jobs that weren't possibly foregone conclusions. Its an insane policy. I am not sure its a legal requirement but thats how they operate here and its a complete nonsense. They should just let them chose the person they want, from inside and just get them into the role asap so they can get to work and progress things. This facade of advertising and interviewing others just to pretend like you're being fair is just bad and gets peoples hopes up for nothing.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 4th July 23:26
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 4th July 23:28
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 4th July 23:28
If it's any consolation I'm a senior lecturer at a Russell Group university and I our appointments appear to bear little correlation to the performance of candidates during presentations, or even their experience. Truth be told, the common denominator is research output. High quality publications and successful grant applications equals job. Doesn't hurt if you're the HOD's PhD student though.
Mind you, it's such a mug's game that I'm leaving academia. It's full of miserable, conniving
s, all chasing a rapidly diminishing pot of money and forced to teach increasingly ignorant and ill-educated students who behave like strategically shaved chimpanzees. Your missus is best off out of it, as are you.
Mind you, it's such a mug's game that I'm leaving academia. It's full of miserable, conniving
s, all chasing a rapidly diminishing pot of money and forced to teach increasingly ignorant and ill-educated students who behave like strategically shaved chimpanzees. Your missus is best off out of it, as are you.Well she's literally got graduation next week. They've already disabled her logins as well (a week early which is cheeky!). I am hoping to be done by christmas graduation but given I've only had 2 chapters back since November I ain't holding my breath. My supervisors are so tied up with teaching, research and chasing grants (they already have a lot of grants to manage as well, couple £million between them) that they don't seem to have much time to devote to actually getting the research I did all bundled up! All I can do is badger them to get it read!
Joey Ramone said:
Mind you, it's such a mug's game that I'm leaving academia. It's full of miserable, conniving s, all chasing a rapidly diminishing pot of money and forced to teach increasingly ignorant and ill-educated students who behave like strategically shaved chimpanzees. Your missus is best off out of it, as are you.
I'm a lecturer too and the above is true. I enjoy it though and won't be leaving just yet (I'm in an area where there is plenty of funding at the moment), but the politics can be a bit annoying.s, all chasing a rapidly diminishing pot of money and forced to teach increasingly ignorant and ill-educated students who behave like strategically shaved chimpanzees. Your missus is best off out of it, as are you.If you can get a post-doc position then the focus, aside from the obvious project delivery, is-
1. Funding
2. Publications in top journals (top 10% in that subject area)
In that order. Getting funding is a game- talking to the right people, getting involved in strong consortia and planning your own research strategy.
Joey Ramone said:
If it's any consolation I'm a senior lecturer at a Russell Group university and I our appointments appear to bear little correlation to the performance of candidates during presentations, or even their experience. Truth be told, the common denominator is research output. High quality publications and successful grant applications equals job. Doesn't hurt if you're the HOD's PhD student though.
Mind you, it's such a mug's game that I'm leaving academia. It's full of miserable, connivings, all chasing a rapidly diminishing pot of money and forced to teach increasingly ignorant and ill-educated students who behave like strategically shaved chimpanzees. Your missus is best off out of it, as are you.
Its exactly how I got my current post-doc. Put in contact by my then supervisor, new lab head happened to be in town unpacking equipment after the move and suggested I pop over (Sunday afternoon). 15 minute chat and an agreement that I would come back during the week to go over my PhD work (techniques mainly). He still had to advertise and did have informal chats with a few other people but his mind was made up before the formal advert went out. I even started working before I received the contract.Mind you, it's such a mug's game that I'm leaving academia. It's full of miserable, conniving
s, all chasing a rapidly diminishing pot of money and forced to teach increasingly ignorant and ill-educated students who behave like strategically shaved chimpanzees. Your missus is best off out of it, as are you.I will also be leaving academia at the end of the year (it was a short term contract to finish a paper- you know get figures 2-6) for what I imagine are many of the same reasons. Good luck on your job hunt.
STW2010 said:
OP, the recruitment practice you have described happens a lot in industry too. So don't think life away from academia is any less 'shady'.
Yes, this. Exactly this.It happens in all places where a job is advertised and a person of influence happens to know, and recommend, their acquaintance to apply. Unfortunately, the person being bunged the role isn't always up to scratch (or in one recent case here, woefully inadequate. But his dad was the head a partnered organisation).
its life, get used to it... (sorry)
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