Shortage of good engineers
Discussion
Anyone agree there is a real shortage of good engineers - I mean, manufacturing, lean, quality.... especially in the West Mids automotive sectors. Seems even JLR can't find enough people.
Anyone out there an engineer finding they can just take their pick of the best jobs?? Or have you had a different experience?
Interested to hear your thoughts guys and gals.
Anyone out there an engineer finding they can just take their pick of the best jobs?? Or have you had a different experience?
Interested to hear your thoughts guys and gals.
Started a mechanical engineering apprenticeship in 1963 with GEC Marconi. 9 months in the Apprentice training centre. I can use any machine in a workshop. Spent 9 months training to be a draughtsman. Did that for 2 yrs. Then 6 years in a test lab, structure testing. Then onto Stress Analysis. Ended up as a Finite Element Analysis Engineer. Went Contracting in 1982. Not because I wanted to, but Maggie had screwed up the economy. At least I started to earn a reasonable salary, but 50hrs a week was normal, and no holidays. Worked on cars, satellites, aircraft. Never did join the institution, because they never bothered to get the title Engineer to have legal status. Of course, Engineers have gradually became a lesser career, everyone wants to be on the financial centres, earning, opps, getting huge salaries and bonus’s. But of course, that’s because our governments since the war haven’t been the least bit interested in that part of the economy. Just compare us to Germany. Example. GEC was the largest company in Europe at one time. Had £2b in cash in the bank in 1976. It’s gone now. The car industry is a complete scandal. Just look at what we gave away to Germany. Don’t mention ship building, railways, etc. Retired now, so I don’t really care anymore. I just wonder sometimes how Engineers were mostly successful at what they did, yet MP’s ( Bankers, Lawyers and Accountants), bugger everything they interfere with up.
Too much dilution of the term Engineer by letting anyone use it.
Insufficient focus on the value engineers bring.
General issue that gaining a university degree in Engineering in no way assures an employers that that person has any actual talent. That's the part which differentiates between good engineers and engineers.
Too much communism in HR departments trying to band salaries or rates which give supervising line managers insufficient power to pay good engineers significantly more than mediocre engineers.
In my industry, good engineers can still choose their jobs and rightly so - nobody wants to do a crap job without a major financial incentive.
Insufficient focus on the value engineers bring.
General issue that gaining a university degree in Engineering in no way assures an employers that that person has any actual talent. That's the part which differentiates between good engineers and engineers.
Too much communism in HR departments trying to band salaries or rates which give supervising line managers insufficient power to pay good engineers significantly more than mediocre engineers.
In my industry, good engineers can still choose their jobs and rightly so - nobody wants to do a crap job without a major financial incentive.
mike9009 said:
Only way a good engineer can get 'good' money is taking a management role. So, many good engineers are in roles which do not suit them......
Price of fish is going up though......
Mike
I'm curious (and have asked before, last time engineering salaries came up) - what is "good"? Price of fish is going up though......
Mike
Parsnip said:
I'm curious (and have asked before, last time engineering salaries came up) - what is "good"?
In the CNC machine shop, it depends on skill level. For a button pusher, they are getting around 25k. Semi skilled, they can set program and operate but still need assistance etc.. they are on around the £35k-£40k includes overtime. Then you get the skilled who make you money, these people are on around the £50k inc overtime, then we have our "Cant get rid of, will beg to stay" type people who are getting around the £60k-£65k which will include around 15-20 hours overtime a week.
sparkyb999 said:
Parsnip said:
I'm curious (and have asked before, last time engineering salaries came up) - what is "good"?
In the CNC machine shop, it depends on skill level. For a button pusher, they are getting around 25k. Semi skilled, they can set program and operate but still need assistance etc.. they are on around the £35k-£40k includes overtime. Then you get the skilled who make you money, these people are on around the £50k inc overtime, then we have our "Cant get rid of, will beg to stay" type people who are getting around the £60k-£65k which will include around 15-20 hours overtime a week.
Personally I think engineering is applying the scientific method to make "things" (processes/items etc.) more efficient or designing them.
I would describe that more inline with a technicians role within an engineering industry, and I'm not using that in a derogatory sense before anyone becomes all too defensive about it.
intrepid44 said:
Depends if you class that as engineering...
Personally I think engineering is applying the scientific method to make "things" (processes/items etc.) more efficient or designing them.
I would describe that more inline with a technicians role within an engineering industry, and I'm not using that in a derogatory sense before anyone becomes all too defensive about it.
Personally I regard the machine shop as where it all starts and whatever the OP's motives there is a worrying shortage of young people coming into the trade. Design all you like and draw as many pretty pictures as you like, if no bugger can make it there's not a lot of point really is there?Personally I think engineering is applying the scientific method to make "things" (processes/items etc.) more efficient or designing them.
I would describe that more inline with a technicians role within an engineering industry, and I'm not using that in a derogatory sense before anyone becomes all too defensive about it.
oddball1973 said:
Personally I regard the machine shop as where it all starts and whatever the OP's motives there is a worrying shortage of young people coming into the trade. Design all you like and draw as many pretty pictures as you like, if no bugger can make it there's not a lot of point really is there?
Let me edit that last sentence...."Hack away at some metal all you like, if there's no design and analysis there's not a lot of point really is there?"
That's better.
Now back to reality, they're two different jobs and both are required.
Oh well, here goes - i've bought and sold CNC machines for 20 years and talk to everyone from Fred in tne shed to companies such as Williams F1, Depuy and Weir valves 5 days a week. There is a serious lack of shop floor skills that is not being replaced as fast as the baby boomer generation retire. If people think real manufacturing skills can be replaced by software and 3 years in a classroom talking about it then they are deluded. 99% of people today including engineering graduates couldn't identify a lathe, never mind know what it does and how to use it - hacking at metal, call yourself an engineer, you haven't a clue.
dsaexec said:
Anyone agree there is a real shortage of good engineers - I mean, manufacturing, lean, quality.... especially in the West Mids automotive sectors. Seems even JLR can't find enough people.
Anyone out there an engineer finding they can just take their pick of the best jobs?? Or have you had a different experience?
Interested to hear your thoughts guys and gals.
Anyone out there an engineer finding they can just take their pick of the best jobs?? Or have you had a different experience?
Interested to hear your thoughts guys and gals.
oddball1973 said:
Oh well, here goes - i've bought and sold CNC machines for 20 years and talk to everyone from Fred in tne shed to companies such as Williams F1, Depuy and Weir valves 5 days a week. There is a serious lack of shop floor skills that is not being replaced as fast as the baby boomer generation retire. If people think real manufacturing skills can be replaced by software and 3 years in a classroom talking about it then they are deluded. 99% of people today including engineering graduates couldn't identify a lathe, never mind know what it does and how to use it - hacking at metal, call yourself an engineer, you haven't a clue.
I'm a degree qualified and almost PhD qualified "mechanical engineer". My work is basically as Intrepid says, applying scientific method to understand machines and processes at a fundamental level to make them better.But without the technicians... I am pointless. They're the ones who have to build and fit my work to the engines. And yes, we struggle for the man power to get it done. They get pulled from pillar to post on all kinds of jobs. We need more good people!
Having said that... I know my way round a lathe and a bridgeport. But I am of course massively slower than anyone who's been taught properly. At uni merely paid lip service to that kind of thing. Later the workshop guys complain when 3rd year students send down their final year project to get made because many of them require in-ordinate amounts of time and resource, are completely arse about elbow or require "magic machining".
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