Time off, for childs consultants appointment
Discussion
Just had an intresting conversation with my wife.
She requested last week to take part of the afternoon off to take my son (10yrs) to a consultants appointment at the hospital. As part of his ongoing treatment. The appointment letter has only just been recieved. So request was done at first available opportunity.
Coincidentally she has her own doctors appointment at just after 7am the same morning. Appointment time such that it doesnt interfere with work.
So my question is, what is the legal position.
Can an employer refuse her the time off?
She has more than enough holiday entitlement left.
And of course she would have been happy enough to used holiday entitlement to cover this time.
She has worked there full time for over 10yrs.
Her immediate senior stated he would prefer it if she didnt have the time off.
Done in such a way that she hasnt arranged the time off.
No need to go into the details but this has resulted in a saturday morning with her more than upset. And myself having to tell myself its not a good idea to go have a word with him.
So id like to play the game. I want to know what HR b*lls
t hes ideally broken in terms of not allowing her reasonable time of for the usual parents duties.
Obviously hes some how intimidated her enough that she didnt push the matter there and then.
That situation i may have to address at a later date.
The consultants appointment isnt like a doctors appointment in that we can arrange it for a time that suits us. And in terms of his previous 4 months illness, shes had 1 other day of when he had to go in for an endoscopy.
whilst he was staying in hospital previously i did the day shift, and she did the nights, such that she never missed any time.
I work from home, so throughout the day i look after him, As well as Grandma when i have meetings.
All the usual common sense things you do as parents to allow a partner to work for a living.
From a personal perspective i feel hes taking the p*ss
Some googling shows that employers dont have to allow an individual time of for doctors appointments.
But in this case its for a dependent? and as such i believe that the rules are different
All relevent comments are much appreciated.
She requested last week to take part of the afternoon off to take my son (10yrs) to a consultants appointment at the hospital. As part of his ongoing treatment. The appointment letter has only just been recieved. So request was done at first available opportunity.
Coincidentally she has her own doctors appointment at just after 7am the same morning. Appointment time such that it doesnt interfere with work.
So my question is, what is the legal position.
Can an employer refuse her the time off?
She has more than enough holiday entitlement left.
And of course she would have been happy enough to used holiday entitlement to cover this time.
She has worked there full time for over 10yrs.
Her immediate senior stated he would prefer it if she didnt have the time off.
Done in such a way that she hasnt arranged the time off.
No need to go into the details but this has resulted in a saturday morning with her more than upset. And myself having to tell myself its not a good idea to go have a word with him.
So id like to play the game. I want to know what HR b*lls
t hes ideally broken in terms of not allowing her reasonable time of for the usual parents duties.Obviously hes some how intimidated her enough that she didnt push the matter there and then.
That situation i may have to address at a later date.
The consultants appointment isnt like a doctors appointment in that we can arrange it for a time that suits us. And in terms of his previous 4 months illness, shes had 1 other day of when he had to go in for an endoscopy.
whilst he was staying in hospital previously i did the day shift, and she did the nights, such that she never missed any time.
I work from home, so throughout the day i look after him, As well as Grandma when i have meetings.
All the usual common sense things you do as parents to allow a partner to work for a living.
From a personal perspective i feel hes taking the p*ss
Some googling shows that employers dont have to allow an individual time of for doctors appointments.
But in this case its for a dependent? and as such i believe that the rules are different
All relevent comments are much appreciated.
Edited by mikebradford on Saturday 27th September 17:19
I hope your son has a good outcome - and wish you the best of luck on that front.
Unprofessional as it may seem - if it was me - id be inclined to just fk off to the consultants appointment.
It SHOULD be easier to rearrange work schedules etc then rearrange the consultants appointment.
Youd have to question whether any firm that would stop their employee from attending vital consultants appointments for their 10 year old - is actually a firm worth working for long term.
Unprofessional as it may seem - if it was me - id be inclined to just f
k off to the consultants appointment. It SHOULD be easier to rearrange work schedules etc then rearrange the consultants appointment.
Youd have to question whether any firm that would stop their employee from attending vital consultants appointments for their 10 year old - is actually a firm worth working for long term.
hope the outcome is good and she finds a better job.HenryJM said:
it depends what her own employment contract says but in the absence of anything covering it she has no right to take the time off in the way described.
Fair enough - but assuming shes a very good employee generally - what would be the likely outcome if she just went to the appointment anyway????.Would it be reasonable for them to sack her for example????
Just to clarify
She has an excellent record , never has time of sick etc.
And is a valued member, seems ironic.
She usually losses holidays, by virtue of not using them up within the required timescale etc.
Typical worker , whereby you can tell them to take it easy and just do what they are contracted to. But they dont listen, work over continually etc.
She also has a role within the company, that at some recent internal thingy. It was highlighted that they had no contingancy to replace her.
That caused a bit of head scratching. But the main point is shes needed.
I understand what some have said, and its common sense.
But shes unlikely to jack in the job.
What im more intrested in is the legal position.
As i feel sure that their must be some for of legislation that covers for this scenario. As it must be fairly common.
Shes not taking time of for herslf, which is a scenario covered in info ive found on google.
But when it comes to taking time of in emergencies etc, it appears you can pretty much just walk out the door.
Its not exactly an emergency, but a consultants appointment i put at a higher level than visiting your local GP with a cold.
Would find it an unusual scenario whereby for instance a single mother with no family wasnt legally entitled to take time of to take a child to some form of hospital appointment.(accept an employer isnt obligated to pay. but if an employee has unused holiday entitlement, seems reasonable they can use this)
Obviously our scenario is slightly different to that. But the principle is.
I would expect legislation to identify what is and isnt reasonable.
Oh and to clarify she will be going to the appointment regardless.
I just want the pleasure of having the facts, when i may or not have a word directly with them about this situation.
Thanks also for the well wishes for my son.
She has an excellent record , never has time of sick etc.
And is a valued member, seems ironic.
She usually losses holidays, by virtue of not using them up within the required timescale etc.
Typical worker , whereby you can tell them to take it easy and just do what they are contracted to. But they dont listen, work over continually etc.
She also has a role within the company, that at some recent internal thingy. It was highlighted that they had no contingancy to replace her.
That caused a bit of head scratching. But the main point is shes needed.
I understand what some have said, and its common sense.
But shes unlikely to jack in the job.
What im more intrested in is the legal position.
As i feel sure that their must be some for of legislation that covers for this scenario. As it must be fairly common.
Shes not taking time of for herslf, which is a scenario covered in info ive found on google.
But when it comes to taking time of in emergencies etc, it appears you can pretty much just walk out the door.
Its not exactly an emergency, but a consultants appointment i put at a higher level than visiting your local GP with a cold.
Would find it an unusual scenario whereby for instance a single mother with no family wasnt legally entitled to take time of to take a child to some form of hospital appointment.(accept an employer isnt obligated to pay. but if an employee has unused holiday entitlement, seems reasonable they can use this)
Obviously our scenario is slightly different to that. But the principle is.
I would expect legislation to identify what is and isnt reasonable.
Oh and to clarify she will be going to the appointment regardless.
I just want the pleasure of having the facts, when i may or not have a word directly with them about this situation.
Thanks also for the well wishes for my son.
Edited by mikebradford on Saturday 27th September 23:25
She has no statutory right to time off because it's a situation that you know about beforehand. If your child fell ill suddenly then you have a right to time off to deal with the situation.
Just curious, why can't you take him?
I can't recall any specific law that your employer would be in breach of by not allowing this time out, but clearly the general accepted principal by most employers is that life outside the office occasionally gets in the way of work.
She should speak to them again and highlight what an absurd situation this is. As if any Mother would want their child to continue to have an untreated medical condition for longer than necessary.
I can't recall any specific law that your employer would be in breach of by not allowing this time out, but clearly the general accepted principal by most employers is that life outside the office occasionally gets in the way of work.
She should speak to them again and highlight what an absurd situation this is. As if any Mother would want their child to continue to have an untreated medical condition for longer than necessary.
The reality is i will be taking him
I just feel it reasonable that a mother should have a right to book time of to take a poorly child to a hospital appointment. Given she has the required holiday entitlement left.
It maybe such that employment law doesnt share this perspective.
I had hoped that legislation was such that it would share the view that a child cant take them selves to hospital, and as such an adult is required.
Intrestingly the government dont want people missing appointments at doctors, and our own surgery fine you for missing appointments etc. Consultants dont seem to share this idealistic utopia that employers feel exist, whereby they allow you to arrange appointments at your own conveniance outside the traditional working hours.
So how the governemt legislates this contradiction is beyond me.
Maybe she should get herself on the welfare state and no doubt she can do as she pleases then
The reality is , if they dont share this view. Im more than happy to play the game.
And ultimatley her employer will lose out.
Thats the trouble when an employee goes way beyond whats required of them.
That will certainly be stopping, out of principle.
I just feel it reasonable that a mother should have a right to book time of to take a poorly child to a hospital appointment. Given she has the required holiday entitlement left.
It maybe such that employment law doesnt share this perspective.
I had hoped that legislation was such that it would share the view that a child cant take them selves to hospital, and as such an adult is required.
Intrestingly the government dont want people missing appointments at doctors, and our own surgery fine you for missing appointments etc. Consultants dont seem to share this idealistic utopia that employers feel exist, whereby they allow you to arrange appointments at your own conveniance outside the traditional working hours.
So how the governemt legislates this contradiction is beyond me.
Maybe she should get herself on the welfare state and no doubt she can do as she pleases then
The reality is , if they dont share this view. Im more than happy to play the game.
And ultimatley her employer will lose out.
Thats the trouble when an employee goes way beyond whats required of them.
That will certainly be stopping, out of principle.
plasticpig said:
She has no statutory right to time off because it's a situation that you know about beforehand. If your child fell ill suddenly then you have a right to time off to deal with the situation.
Thanks for the link,its one i looked at previously.
this is the grey area or maybe not
Link said:
Exceptions
You can’t have time off if you knew about a situation beforehand. For example you wouldn’t be covered if you wanted to take your child to hospital for an appointment. You might get parental leave instead."
Parental leave appears to only be for children under 5You can’t have time off if you knew about a situation beforehand. For example you wouldn’t be covered if you wanted to take your child to hospital for an appointment. You might get parental leave instead."
Playing devils advocate - I still dont get how employment law, is such that a single mother with a child requiring a hospital appointment, isnt legally entitled to use their holiday entitlement to do so.
What is supposed to happen if that single mother doesnt have someone that they can ask to take their child to the hospital? surely the child would miss the hospital, and no doubt social services would be then looking into the mothers ability to look after the child.
Just seems for all the legislation we have, that such an obvious scenario is ommited.
The more i think of it, the more its winding me up, and i look forward to seeing just how i can repy the favor of a spoilt weekned.
Edited by mikebradford on Sunday 28th September 00:02
mikebradford said:
Parental leave appears to only be for children under 5
Playing devils advocate - I still dont get how employment law, is such that a single mother with a child requiring a hospital appointment, isnt legally entitled to use their holiday entitlement to do so.
Just seems for all the legislation we have, that such an obvious scenario is ommited.
I think any reasonable employer would give her the time off. Playing devils advocate - I still dont get how employment law, is such that a single mother with a child requiring a hospital appointment, isnt legally entitled to use their holiday entitlement to do so.
Just seems for all the legislation we have, that such an obvious scenario is ommited.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
HenryJM said:
it depends what her own employment contract says but in the absence of anything covering it she has no right to take the time off in the way described.
That's just bollicks though. In this life you get out what you put in. mikebradford said:
...What im more intrested in is the legal position.
As i feel sure that their must be some for of legislation that covers for this scenario.
...
I would expect legislation to identify what is and isnt reasonable.
...
There is no relevant legislation. In any event, legislation rarely defines what is reasonable, as it is not normally possible to be prescriptive about that.As i feel sure that their must be some for of legislation that covers for this scenario.
...
I would expect legislation to identify what is and isnt reasonable.
...
This is a matter for the employer's agreement.
mikebradford said:
...
this is the grey area or maybe not
...
You have to give 21 days notice of parental leave, so in any event it couldn't apply in your situation. You have to take at least a week's leave, and it is unpaid. this is the grey area or maybe not
Link said:
Exceptions
You can’t have time off if you knew about a situation beforehand. For example you wouldn’t be covered if you wanted to take your child to hospital for an appointment. You might get parental leave instead."
Parental leave appears to only be for children under 5You can’t have time off if you knew about a situation beforehand. For example you wouldn’t be covered if you wanted to take your child to hospital for an appointment. You might get parental leave instead."
...
Thank you everyone for taking the time to help.
It appears that this situation doesnt fall into criteria that favors the parent. That is how my initial internet investigation found it. I had hoped that the someone knew differently, or that with a mix of different key words Google would have thrown up some different results.
It's a shame , but that's life.
And the reality is that her immediate employer has taken the view that he/ company comes first. But the bigger picture is I now will make sure she closely adheres to her contract. And ultimately we gain more than we lose.
Thanks again.. this thread can be put to bed.
It appears that this situation doesnt fall into criteria that favors the parent. That is how my initial internet investigation found it. I had hoped that the someone knew differently, or that with a mix of different key words Google would have thrown up some different results.
It's a shame , but that's life.
And the reality is that her immediate employer has taken the view that he/ company comes first. But the bigger picture is I now will make sure she closely adheres to her contract. And ultimately we gain more than we lose.
Thanks again.. this thread can be put to bed.
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