Leaving for another job at the "wrong" time.
Discussion
I made a thread a few weeks back about advice on asking for salary increase. Just before Christmas I had my appraisal. In the end I didn't go ahead about asking for an appraisal due to what was said in our company meeting (CEO basically said the company had done well but could have done better) and I also didn't feel comfortable during the appraisal, it just didn't feel right.
After a couple days of looking online for other jobs I have found one that interests me a lot (salary range at least 8K more than I am on). It was recently placed on the website also, the jobs quite niche so don't appear often. Now, at my current place I am involved in quite an important project which when fully completed (about 2/3 way to completion) bring in the company a good source of revenue. I don't know exact figures but from what Ive worked out it should help rake in at least 5K a month. There is just me and another girl working on the project. Completion of project is forecast for first quarter of 2015.
My plan is to hopefully obtain a job offer and use it as negotiation for a pay rise increase. Of course this will only work if I get a job offer and before that even an interview.
I do enjoy working for my current place but the pay is pants and if they cant offer what I am after then I wont really hesitate in leaving. How will my company think about me (am looking at you guys in management
) if I decide to jump ship at such an important time?
After a couple days of looking online for other jobs I have found one that interests me a lot (salary range at least 8K more than I am on). It was recently placed on the website also, the jobs quite niche so don't appear often. Now, at my current place I am involved in quite an important project which when fully completed (about 2/3 way to completion) bring in the company a good source of revenue. I don't know exact figures but from what Ive worked out it should help rake in at least 5K a month. There is just me and another girl working on the project. Completion of project is forecast for first quarter of 2015.
My plan is to hopefully obtain a job offer and use it as negotiation for a pay rise increase. Of course this will only work if I get a job offer and before that even an interview.
I do enjoy working for my current place but the pay is pants and if they cant offer what I am after then I wont really hesitate in leaving. How will my company think about me (am looking at you guys in management
) if I decide to jump ship at such an important time? It depends, if it really is a niche skill, then you have some leverage in asking for a pay rise, but £8k is a lot for most employers to increase one person's salary by if it hasn't been planned. You'll have to bring in more than £8k extra in value to justify it over the previous year.
Plus a lot of employers will just have a blanket policy of not increasing when you mention you have a job offer elsewhere, otherwise everyone could attempt it, however it's more likely in a place with easy to find skills.
Plus a lot of employers will just have a blanket policy of not increasing when you mention you have a job offer elsewhere, otherwise everyone could attempt it, however it's more likely in a place with easy to find skills.
My 2p's worth:
I used to manage a fairly niche / specialist desk for a recruitment company.
Without going into a massive diversion, the simple fact of the matter is this: If I found a new position for a candidate, and they subsequently used the new offer to 'negotiate / blackmail' their existing employer into offering them a payrise or a new contract - then without question I would hear from those candidates again quite quickly - usually within 3 months, sometimes as much as 6...
Every time a candidate did this to their existing company, they would find themselves ostracized and 'managed out' quite swiftly. Companies do NOT take kindly to this! My advice - be very careful!
I used to manage a fairly niche / specialist desk for a recruitment company.
Without going into a massive diversion, the simple fact of the matter is this: If I found a new position for a candidate, and they subsequently used the new offer to 'negotiate / blackmail' their existing employer into offering them a payrise or a new contract - then without question I would hear from those candidates again quite quickly - usually within 3 months, sometimes as much as 6...
Every time a candidate did this to their existing company, they would find themselves ostracized and 'managed out' quite swiftly. Companies do NOT take kindly to this! My advice - be very careful!
Vyse said:
I do enjoy working for my current place but the pay is pants and if they cant offer what I am after then I wont really hesitate in leaving. How will my company think about me (am looking at you guys in management ) if I decide to jump ship at such an important time?
If they decided it was the right time to get rid of you, they wouldn't be too bothered if it was the wrong time for you or not, so ultimately you shouldn't think too much about it, there will always be a reason for it to not be the right time. ) if I decide to jump ship at such an important time? You kind of eluded to the appropriate solution for yourself.....ask them for what you want, and if they can't meet it (or within a reasonable margin) get applying.
I'm a contractor and recently changed jobs. I had 8 or 9 projects on the go, all were very busy and not a good time to go. However, something better came up and I'd have been a fool not to take it. I've never left a contract for 'something better' before, I always see them through to the end as like you, kind of worry about what people will think if I jump ship. I'd watched my previous employer sack numerous contractors (usually unfairly) so kind of opened my eyes a little bit. I appreciate you're permanent, but the same applies.
Applying for a job just to use any potential offer as a bargaining chip is NOT a good idea!! Why not apply for the other job, if you get an interview, ask as much about the role as you need to know, then if an offer did arise, make an informed decision on where you want to be?
SkinnyP said:
Foliage said:
My advice - Move on, don't accept any counter offer, you need a new and more fulfilling challenge.
Always this.If you have to be reaching for the door handle before your employer will offer you a fair settlement then you're better off leaving anyway as you'll have to go through the same rigmarole every time you feel it's time a better settlement was forthcoming.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
My 2p's worth:
I used to manage a fairly niche / specialist desk for a recruitment company.
Without going into a massive diversion, the simple fact of the matter is this: If I found a new position for a candidate, and they subsequently used the new offer to 'negotiate / blackmail' their existing employer into offering them a payrise or a new contract - then without question I would hear from those candidates again quite quickly - usually within 3 months, sometimes as much as 6...
Every time a candidate did this to their existing company, they would find themselves ostracized and 'managed out' quite swiftly. Companies do NOT take kindly to this! My advice - be very careful!
I think it depends on the relationship you have with your line manager / Head of Dept. For example it's possible to negotiate a pay rise and stay on good terms ifI used to manage a fairly niche / specialist desk for a recruitment company.
Without going into a massive diversion, the simple fact of the matter is this: If I found a new position for a candidate, and they subsequently used the new offer to 'negotiate / blackmail' their existing employer into offering them a payrise or a new contract - then without question I would hear from those candidates again quite quickly - usually within 3 months, sometimes as much as 6...
Every time a candidate did this to their existing company, they would find themselves ostracized and 'managed out' quite swiftly. Companies do NOT take kindly to this! My advice - be very careful!
Your employer values you
You can demonstrate what the market rate is
You can demonstrate your value to the organisation
Most managers will pay as much as they can to retain good staff rather than go through the PITA of recruiting an unknown quantity, investing money and time in training, and possibly having to pay market rate ANYWAY in order to get the right calibre of candidate.
I had my appraisal recently, apparently I am top jockey. Towards the end I asked for a pay rise.
Told them what I want, why and without emotion. Manager agreed with my points and promptly sent an email to our head office/CEO in another country, who will discuss and then forward it to our share holder who is again in another country...
I didn't threaten to leave, moan, or say I was unhappy.
I won't find out till the next tax year but given that it takes at least 6 months to become remotely familiar in my role, and that it would cost more to in money and time to replace me, they'd be a fool to say no.
Told them what I want, why and without emotion. Manager agreed with my points and promptly sent an email to our head office/CEO in another country, who will discuss and then forward it to our share holder who is again in another country...
I didn't threaten to leave, moan, or say I was unhappy.
I won't find out till the next tax year but given that it takes at least 6 months to become remotely familiar in my role, and that it would cost more to in money and time to replace me, they'd be a fool to say no.
Edited by SkinnyP on Wednesday 31st December 16:42
Just my 2p worth and anecdotal experience.
The company I work for it's always been the same, you've pretty much got the threaten to leave before they'll offer you a raise if they think you're worth it. Despite being a R&D company with multi million £ turnover and profit it's very line manager (and theirs) specific and most you'd think were paying you out of their own pockets.
I got a bit sick of my salary not aligning with my responsibilities despite asking for one during performance reviews etc, so I started to look elsewhere. I was offered another job shortly after interviewing etc, I did want to stay, speaking from experience the grass isn't necessarily greener. Sat down with one of the deputy MD's and negotiated hard. In the end I got what I wanted and then some which has kept me happy for now. There was no animosity after the negotiations (it's almost 2 years ago) and my responsibilities have continued to increase. Sometimes I wish I'd left just for the change of scenery but I've a good work life balance, work hard while I'm at work and by and large leave work at work once I leave for the day.
From an employers perspective it's surely a risky strategy but many seem to adopt this? In my case if I'd have left the company would have lost many times more my annual salary in income. It's not the kind of job anyone else could do without a lot of time being trained/brought up to speed, and with me gone no one to train them
The company I work for it's always been the same, you've pretty much got the threaten to leave before they'll offer you a raise if they think you're worth it. Despite being a R&D company with multi million £ turnover and profit it's very line manager (and theirs) specific and most you'd think were paying you out of their own pockets.
I got a bit sick of my salary not aligning with my responsibilities despite asking for one during performance reviews etc, so I started to look elsewhere. I was offered another job shortly after interviewing etc, I did want to stay, speaking from experience the grass isn't necessarily greener. Sat down with one of the deputy MD's and negotiated hard. In the end I got what I wanted and then some which has kept me happy for now. There was no animosity after the negotiations (it's almost 2 years ago) and my responsibilities have continued to increase. Sometimes I wish I'd left just for the change of scenery but I've a good work life balance, work hard while I'm at work and by and large leave work at work once I leave for the day.
From an employers perspective it's surely a risky strategy but many seem to adopt this? In my case if I'd have left the company would have lost many times more my annual salary in income. It's not the kind of job anyone else could do without a lot of time being trained/brought up to speed, and with me gone no one to train them
a311 said:
From an employers perspective it's surely a risky strategy but many seem to adopt this? In my case if I'd have left the company would have lost many times more my annual salary in income. It's not the kind of job anyone else could do without a lot of time being trained/brought up to speed, and with me gone no one to train them
As with most things there are two sides to every story.One of my team is the credit control team. He thinks he's underpaid. He's reasonably good at his job and he's a great laugh to work with. The problem is
We have a pay structure and he's at the top for his grade (and above market rate)
He moans about having to do the smallest of extra things
He's easily replaceable.
Do I think he merits a pay rise? Nope.
Counter this with another person who reports to me - excellent attitude, has been promoted through the ranks twice already, stands a good chance of getting my job when I leave (even though he's quite young).
At the end of the day a lot depends on how much your boss values you and how accurate your self-view is.
Countdown said:
As with most things there are two sides to every story.
At the end of the day a lot depends on how much your boss values you and how accurate your self-view is.
Of course fully agree. On a slightly different tangent as pay scales were mentioned (although I can't think or offer any alternative to a large organisation) we have very stringent pay scales/bands. A bloke left not too long ago as he was at the top of his band and had an unexpected pregnancy with his Mrs so was looking for more £. He was really good at what he did but short of making up a job there was nothing in the medium term that could be done so he left. On speaking with him in reality he was only looking for around a 5K hike.At the end of the day a lot depends on how much your boss values you and how accurate your self-view is.
Self view of worth is tricky and if people are honest with themselves should have at least an idea of this. I could chase money in my profession (engineering), but it's not the be all and end all, but it's a competitive market with the right skills and experience. In my own circumstance I was doing 2 jobs for the price of one-Engineering Manger and Project Manager. My boss did except that I was being underpaid but did F all about it till I threatened to leave.
I'm rather happy in my line of work, since I graduated I've worked at 4 different companies, stayed at the first for 1.5 years, the second for 9 months, third for 6 months before settling at my current work (nearly 2 years)
the first job i enjoyed but work was slow and I worried how where my wages were coming from, so i left, on exit I was offered more money but at that time it wasn't about money, he had given me a 2.5k raise a few months earlier.
The second company was awful so I left for a higher paid job with more responsibilities, but after 6 months I was made redundant (despite my work boosting sales heavily)
I walked into my current job and worked hard, after just over a year my colleague left and work piled on, I was working from 6am - 5pm and continuing at home over evenings and weekends, nothing ever said or asked about a pay raise, one month everyone was working overtime due to a project so it was offered to me for that month only, totalled around £700, when it didn't go into my wage i brought it up with my boss. A week later I was sat down and asked to take the days in lieu, and I would get a raise to match my dedication to the company, a few days later my salary increased by just over £5k, Another colleague has left but we have had a new starter but my remaining colleague (nearly twice my age) keeps complaining, despite working less than me and taking more fag breaks than the cast of the royle family, as she feels she isn't paid enough.
Only 1 colleague knows about my raise (apart from higher ups) and I certainly wasn't going to mention it, but when the second team member left she told me of her plans to ask for a raise as if she left the team would be just me, meaning the company would be fairly screwed going from 5 to 1 team member. I think she got her raise but we are currently advertising for a junior person to "help her in her job role"
Its all good being unhappy in a job, if you are I wouldn't stay for more money, but I certainly wouldn't blackmail a company into paying me more money, on a personal level I like to feel it has been earnt, I'm currently £1500 less than wage I wanted to earn in 2 years time, Ill easily reach it with annual raise but it's nice to feel ive worked for it!
the first job i enjoyed but work was slow and I worried how where my wages were coming from, so i left, on exit I was offered more money but at that time it wasn't about money, he had given me a 2.5k raise a few months earlier.
The second company was awful so I left for a higher paid job with more responsibilities, but after 6 months I was made redundant (despite my work boosting sales heavily)
I walked into my current job and worked hard, after just over a year my colleague left and work piled on, I was working from 6am - 5pm and continuing at home over evenings and weekends, nothing ever said or asked about a pay raise, one month everyone was working overtime due to a project so it was offered to me for that month only, totalled around £700, when it didn't go into my wage i brought it up with my boss. A week later I was sat down and asked to take the days in lieu, and I would get a raise to match my dedication to the company, a few days later my salary increased by just over £5k, Another colleague has left but we have had a new starter but my remaining colleague (nearly twice my age) keeps complaining, despite working less than me and taking more fag breaks than the cast of the royle family, as she feels she isn't paid enough.
Only 1 colleague knows about my raise (apart from higher ups) and I certainly wasn't going to mention it, but when the second team member left she told me of her plans to ask for a raise as if she left the team would be just me, meaning the company would be fairly screwed going from 5 to 1 team member. I think she got her raise but we are currently advertising for a junior person to "help her in her job role"
Its all good being unhappy in a job, if you are I wouldn't stay for more money, but I certainly wouldn't blackmail a company into paying me more money, on a personal level I like to feel it has been earnt, I'm currently £1500 less than wage I wanted to earn in 2 years time, Ill easily reach it with annual raise but it's nice to feel ive worked for it!
So you've neither asked for a pay rise, nor even got an interview for the other job?
I'd get both the above under my belt first and THEN start thinking about what to do.
Don't resent your current employer for not voluntarily pushing more money at you unprompted - that's not a reasonable expectation. You aren't entitled to share in the success of 'your' project, just as you wouldn't be expected to pay for its failure.
If you want more money, ask. But don't threaten.
I'd get both the above under my belt first and THEN start thinking about what to do.
Don't resent your current employer for not voluntarily pushing more money at you unprompted - that's not a reasonable expectation. You aren't entitled to share in the success of 'your' project, just as you wouldn't be expected to pay for its failure.
If you want more money, ask. But don't threaten.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff