Salary overpayment?
Discussion
Just wondering if anybody can give me any advice on where I stand in regards to a supposed overpayment of salary.
I left a role in November of last year, and have just received a letter demanding payment of £433 within 14 days due to an overpayment in that very month.
I've had no prior attempted contact in regards to it, and I certainly do not agree with the amount "owed". (For a start, the 'employment end' date is completely wrong and I am slightly perplexed by their calculations)
I ended up getting messed around on a very regular occasion in terms of turning up to my supposedly set hours only to be told I had no shift (the rota was done by whomever was available at the time, as they were short staffed and had no controller, or manager as such) I was told I would be reimbursed as it was their error (it happened twice in one week, and I had a 25 mile commute each way) but this never happened. Their whole internal operation was a bit of shambles, my training was cut short by two full days and they had little to no regard in terms of healthy and safety, this isn't a small company either. Because of the shift patterns, a break was a pipe dream most days. Due to the routes, loads and continual pressure from upper management (it quickly became apparent that this was the 'norm')
I wouldn't say we left on bad terms but the thing in it's entirety was very haphazard and unprofessional, and this is a bit out of the blue. It is supposedly a 'debt management' company who have contacted me.
I'm not contesting I may owe them some, I just feel like it's rather unfair to just plop it in my lap without even trying to contact me to make an arrangement or discuss the numbers. And also, why has this taken nearly four months?
Basically what are my rights in this situation, will they chase me until I die? Will they take my first born?
..can I bin it?
Joking with the last statement, ish.
I left a role in November of last year, and have just received a letter demanding payment of £433 within 14 days due to an overpayment in that very month.
I've had no prior attempted contact in regards to it, and I certainly do not agree with the amount "owed". (For a start, the 'employment end' date is completely wrong and I am slightly perplexed by their calculations)
I ended up getting messed around on a very regular occasion in terms of turning up to my supposedly set hours only to be told I had no shift (the rota was done by whomever was available at the time, as they were short staffed and had no controller, or manager as such) I was told I would be reimbursed as it was their error (it happened twice in one week, and I had a 25 mile commute each way) but this never happened. Their whole internal operation was a bit of shambles, my training was cut short by two full days and they had little to no regard in terms of healthy and safety, this isn't a small company either. Because of the shift patterns, a break was a pipe dream most days. Due to the routes, loads and continual pressure from upper management (it quickly became apparent that this was the 'norm')
I wouldn't say we left on bad terms but the thing in it's entirety was very haphazard and unprofessional, and this is a bit out of the blue. It is supposedly a 'debt management' company who have contacted me.
I'm not contesting I may owe them some, I just feel like it's rather unfair to just plop it in my lap without even trying to contact me to make an arrangement or discuss the numbers. And also, why has this taken nearly four months?
Basically what are my rights in this situation, will they chase me until I die? Will they take my first born?
..can I bin it?
Joking with the last statement, ish.
Edited by Jimmy No Hands on Monday 22 February 21:09
Write back to the debt collection agency noting you dispute the sum (or any sum) is owed.
Write to the company and ask them to fully particularise the allegation as you do not agree with their figures, noting you dispute any debt is owed. I would also note you consider it unreasonable for them to contact you via a debt collection agency without ever contacting you.
Write to the company and ask them to fully particularise the allegation as you do not agree with their figures, noting you dispute any debt is owed. I would also note you consider it unreasonable for them to contact you via a debt collection agency without ever contacting you.
I'm going to contact them tomorrow and ask for a full break down. As far as I was aware I got paid for what I worked up until I left. Also apparently, they included a £40 Christmas 'bonus' (lucky me) paid in November that I supposedly wasn't entitled to because I left. This plus the 5.5 holiday hours I took that I hadn't accrued I'd be happy to pay, and I can't dispute, but the other lump just doesn't make sense to me.
Should I be concerned it's apparently already in the hands of a management company? Or will that just be normal procedure?
Should I be concerned it's apparently already in the hands of a management company? Or will that just be normal procedure?
Your former employer should have contacted you directly first. I would threaten them with legal action regarding the use of a debt collection agency as that could constitute harassment.
If they have genuinely overpaid you, they are legally entitled to their money back - but first they need to prove to you how they have arrived at the figure they are claiming and then they need to ask you in a much more polite manner.
If and when you agree with them on the amount that needs to be paid back, I would negotiate to pay it back to them over a number of monthly installments.
If they have genuinely overpaid you, they are legally entitled to their money back - but first they need to prove to you how they have arrived at the figure they are claiming and then they need to ask you in a much more polite manner.
If and when you agree with them on the amount that needs to be paid back, I would negotiate to pay it back to them over a number of monthly installments.
Eric Mc said:
If they have genuinely overpaid you, they are legally entitled to their money back - but first they need to prove to you how they have arrived at the figure they are claiming and then they need to ask you in a much more polite manner.
If and when you agree with them on the amount that needs to be paid back, I would negotiate to pay it back to them over a number of monthly installments.
Yup - a former employer of mine took 7 years of monthly installments to get an overpayment back as I took real exception to the first contact being from a solicitor threatening court action....If and when you agree with them on the amount that needs to be paid back, I would negotiate to pay it back to them over a number of monthly installments.
Eric Mc said:
Your former employer should have contacted you directly first. I would threaten them with legal action regarding the use of a debt collection agency as that could constitute harassment.
One contact from a debt collection agency is not harassment. Making threats of (baseless) legal action would be pointless.Propose a payment schedule, based on the actual termination date.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 23 February 15:27
Breadvan72 said:
One contact from a debt collection agency is not harassment. Making threats of (baseless) legal action would be pointless.
Propose a payment schedule, based on the actual termination date.
If an employer threatens legal action, that's OK but if an employee in return replies by threatening legal action of their own that is excessive?Propose a payment schedule, based on the actual termination date.
Edited by Breadvan72 on Tuesday 23 February 15:27
Why would an employer adopt such a threatening position without having written in a normal polite way to the employee - especially if the debt collection letter threatens legal action right from the start? It does smack of an inappropriately harsh way of behaving - especially since it is the employer who made the mistake that caused the overpayment in the first place.
Empty threats make you look stupid. There is no case of harassment, so threatening to sue for harassment would be mere bombast.
The employer has gone OTT, but the way to deal with that is by adopting a measured approach in response. Silly children deal with tantrums by having counter tantrums, but I note that tantrums and mindless shoutiness are the default setting for all internet wannabe lawyers.
The employer has gone OTT, but the way to deal with that is by adopting a measured approach in response. Silly children deal with tantrums by having counter tantrums, but I note that tantrums and mindless shoutiness are the default setting for all internet wannabe lawyers.
Breadvan72 said:
Empty threats make you look stupid. There is no case of harassment, so threatening to sue for harassment would be mere bombast.
The employer has gone OTT, but the way to deal with that is by adopting a measured approach in response. Silly children deal with tantrums by having counter tantrums, but I note that tantrums and mindless shoutiness are the default setting for all internet wannabe lawyers.
This is interesting, I was once told that their are 3 ways of dealing with a situation, like a parent (mindless shouting etc), like a child (tantrum etc) or like an adult.The employer has gone OTT, but the way to deal with that is by adopting a measured approach in response. Silly children deal with tantrums by having counter tantrums, but I note that tantrums and mindless shoutiness are the default setting for all internet wannabe lawyers.
Eric Mc said:
A steady rational approach is always best, but the fact that the employer has immediately resorted to brutish tactics without any sort of "normal" communication would certainly put any restraint on behalf of the employee under severe pressure - especially if I was that employee.
So why did you advise a stupid, belligerent response? So, when you advise your clients, do you identify what the best course is and then immediately advise them to do something else? Here is what you advised the OP to do -
Eric Mc said:
Your former employer should have contacted you directly first. I would threaten them with legal action regarding the use of a debt collection agency as that could constitute harassment.
...
A hint: when in a hole, put down your shovel. ...
Breadvan72 said:
So, when you advise your clients, do you identify what the best course is and then immediately advise them to do something else? Here is what you advised the OP to do -
I use a teaspoon - it's much more refined.Eric Mc said:
Your former employer should have contacted you directly first. I would threaten them with legal action regarding the use of a debt collection agency as that could constitute harassment.
...
A hint: when in a hole, put down your shovel. ...
It wasn't formal "advice" anyway - just chatting on an internet forum. Some of you guys are just way too humourless and pedantic at times - to be honest.
Lighten up a bit for goodness sake.
And please refrain from casting aspersions on how I handle my clients. It's not the first time you've done it and it is not appreciated, especially on a public forum like this.
Here is Eric not giving advice, but obviously just having a chat -
Jimmy No Hands said:
Just wondering if anybody can give me any advice on where I stand in regards to a supposed overpayment of salary...
Eric Mc said:
Your former employer should have contacted you directly first. I would threaten them with legal action regarding the use of a debt collection agency as that could constitute harassment.
If they have genuinely overpaid you, they are legally entitled to their money back - but first they need to prove to you how they have arrived at the figure they are claiming and then they need to ask you in a much more polite manner.
If and when you agree with them on the amount that needs to be paid back, I would negotiate to pay it back to them over a number of monthly installments.
Yep, no advice there at all. Obviously just a bit of amusing banter. The second two paragraphs are actually quite sensible, but they are weakened by the nonsense in the first paragraphIf they have genuinely overpaid you, they are legally entitled to their money back - but first they need to prove to you how they have arrived at the figure they are claiming and then they need to ask you in a much more polite manner.
If and when you agree with them on the amount that needs to be paid back, I would negotiate to pay it back to them over a number of monthly installments.
Jimmy No Hands said:
Basically what are my rights in this situation, will they chase me until I die? Will they take my first born?
They think you owe them money and you think you probably owe them some money. They have the right to take you to court if they want to. Whether or not they will depends on (a) how confident they are of winning and (b) how much it will cost them vs how much they will get back.With regards to (a) - if it should have been blindingly obvious to all concerned that it was an overpayment (eg you were paid £500k more than usual) then they have a good chance of winning. OTOH if your pay fluctuated on a month by month basis and this was within the normal range of fluctuation you can argue that you didn't think you'd been paid and it's not reasonable for you to have to repay money that you had thought was rightfully yours.
With regards to (b) - they may have a razor sharp in-house legal or credit control team who do this sort of thing day in day out and so it won't cost them much in terms of money/effort to chase you. OTOH it may be one junior payroll officer who is using google to find "best way of recovering salary overpayment". This will involve a lot of effort of the company's part, with them having to use external solicitors and they MAY decide (after a few shouty letters) that it's not worth the effort.
If it was me I'd phone them up and ask for a breakdown of the overpayment and also how/why it arose.
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