Employment advice for my Daughter
Discussion
The advice that she sould receive is to grow a pair of balls and get on with it. But i would welcome your opinion.
She is 26 and just joined a large London PR company at a senior level, to be honest she has got the promotion too early in her working life, but it is what it is. She was at this same title but in a much smaller company
She is a bit of a wussy and takes too much to heart and other more junior, and sometimes older, staff that report to her have been vocal in saying why has she been appointed, it doesnt help that she doesnt have the plummy accent that the others have.
She doesnt want to walk away, but the other staff are being pillocks and seem intent on making life hell.
I suspect that some of you may have had something similar in your life, can you advise on how you handled it.
She is 26 and just joined a large London PR company at a senior level, to be honest she has got the promotion too early in her working life, but it is what it is. She was at this same title but in a much smaller company
She is a bit of a wussy and takes too much to heart and other more junior, and sometimes older, staff that report to her have been vocal in saying why has she been appointed, it doesnt help that she doesnt have the plummy accent that the others have.
She doesnt want to walk away, but the other staff are being pillocks and seem intent on making life hell.
I suspect that some of you may have had something similar in your life, can you advise on how you handled it.
Thanks for the advice all, her mother is going to have a few words this weekend. basic problem is that my daughter is trying to be nice and some people see that as a weekness and take advantage.
Not entirely sure that daughter has enough backbone to fix this situation.
Thank you for your help.
Not entirely sure that daughter has enough backbone to fix this situation.
Thank you for your help.
Robbo 27 said:
Thanks for the advice all, her mother is going to have a few words this weekend. basic problem is that my daughter is trying to be nice and some people see that as a weekness and take advantage.
Not entirely sure that daughter has enough backbone to fix this situation.
Thank you for your help.
You may be hard fronted at work, I have this image as well but it takes all types to make an organisation work, not all successful managers are bNot entirely sure that daughter has enough backbone to fix this situation.
Thank you for your help.
ds, some are actually nice people & staff go the extra because they like them not fear them.Let her work to her strengths & not try to be someone she is not. She must be doing something right to get the position in the first place.
"London PR" is something I'm all too familiar with - and thankfully no longer involved with.
Full of cliques and closed peer groups joined by a combined sense of self-importance, almost always, misplaced.
However, your daughter has two saving graces...
The first is that the churn in such agencies is high. Employees travel through them rather than see a position as a career so it is highly likely they will be gone soon anyway.
And the second is that the owners of such agencies are driven by billing levels and tend to only promote and appoint based upon the individual's ability to positively influence this. As long as she delivers on this, then she'll earn the respect of her peers over a relatively short time due to the respect she earns from the owners.
In my experience, all of the London agencies tend to be the same. Smaller and provincial agencies are on the whole occupied by more pleasant people.
Full of cliques and closed peer groups joined by a combined sense of self-importance, almost always, misplaced.
However, your daughter has two saving graces...
The first is that the churn in such agencies is high. Employees travel through them rather than see a position as a career so it is highly likely they will be gone soon anyway.
And the second is that the owners of such agencies are driven by billing levels and tend to only promote and appoint based upon the individual's ability to positively influence this. As long as she delivers on this, then she'll earn the respect of her peers over a relatively short time due to the respect she earns from the owners.
In my experience, all of the London agencies tend to be the same. Smaller and provincial agencies are on the whole occupied by more pleasant people.
Robbo 27 said:
Not entirely sure that daughter has enough backbone to fix this situation.
Jeez, I hope you don't say this to her! How about giving her words of encouragement and advice to empower her to deal with this situation, rather than doubt and belittle her.You sound as bad as her colleagues.
nitrodave said:
Jeez, I hope you don't say this to her! How about giving her words of encouragement and advice to empower her to deal with this situation, rather than doubt and belittle her.
You sound as bad as her colleagues.
No, I wouldnt do that, of course, this was my thoughts on here and very different from what may be said to her in person.You sound as bad as her colleagues.
Thanks for your comments.
StevieBee said:
"London PR" is something I'm all too familiar with - and thankfully no longer involved with.
Full of cliques and closed peer groups joined by a combined sense of self-importance, almost always, misplaced.
However, your daughter has two saving graces...
The first is that the churn in such agencies is high. Employees travel through them rather than see a position as a career so it is highly likely they will be gone soon anyway.
And the second is that the owners of such agencies are driven by billing levels and tend to only promote and appoint based upon the individual's ability to positively influence this. As long as she delivers on this, then she'll earn the respect of her peers over a relatively short time due to the respect she earns from the owners.
In my experience, all of the London agencies tend to be the same. Smaller and provincial agencies are on the whole occupied by more pleasant people.
Thanks for the advice, particularly from someone who knows the industry. Full of cliques and closed peer groups joined by a combined sense of self-importance, almost always, misplaced.
However, your daughter has two saving graces...
The first is that the churn in such agencies is high. Employees travel through them rather than see a position as a career so it is highly likely they will be gone soon anyway.
And the second is that the owners of such agencies are driven by billing levels and tend to only promote and appoint based upon the individual's ability to positively influence this. As long as she delivers on this, then she'll earn the respect of her peers over a relatively short time due to the respect she earns from the owners.
In my experience, all of the London agencies tend to be the same. Smaller and provincial agencies are on the whole occupied by more pleasant people.
Her two great attributes are that she works hard, I have known her work 7 days a week, also her client skills are first class. She did very well when she was at the top of the food chain in a small agency, big fish and a small pond and no real need for people skills in managing junior ranked employees.
Really appreciated your taking the time to comment, thank you.
She should ask her boss for some management training, loads of good courses out there. I'd recommend Gary at http://www.changescape.com/
There's nothing wrong with being nice but she needs to get to the root of the problem. Identify the concerns, objections, understand why they are there. Do that on a one to one basis and she can be as nice as she wants as long as people will talk to her. She doesn't have to be confrontational through this.
This sounds like your archetypal 'accidental manager' scenario, where someone who is good at their primary role gets promoted and now has to lead others doing their primary role but without the necessary management competencies. As stated above, she needs some training to improve those management skills.
jonny996 said:
Robbo 27 said:
Thanks for the advice all, her mother is going to have a few words this weekend. basic problem is that my daughter is trying to be nice and some people see that as a weekness and take advantage.
Not entirely sure that daughter has enough backbone to fix this situation.
Thank you for your help.
You may be hard fronted at work, I have this image as well but it takes all types to make an organisation work, not all successful managers are bNot entirely sure that daughter has enough backbone to fix this situation.
Thank you for your help.
ds, some are actually nice people & staff go the extra because they like them not fear them.Let her work to her strengths & not try to be someone she is not. She must be doing something right to get the position in the first place.
There is probably one or maybe two people fuelling this. They need to be helped to get with the programme and see that they all need to work as a team. 1 to 1s with her people - reinforce the "one team" notion and pull people on it who arent playing ball. Make life uncomfortable for them in their 1 to 1s. She needs to get the message across - subtely - that if someone has a problem with her, then it will be them that needs to move on, not her.
edc said:
There's nothing wrong with being nice but she needs to get to the root of the problem. Identify the concerns, objections, understand why they are there. Do that on a one to one basis and she can be as nice as she wants as long as people will talk to her. She doesn't have to be confrontational through this.
+1StevieBee said:
"London PR" is something I'm all too familiar with - and thankfully no longer involved with.
Full of cliques and closed peer groups joined by a combined sense of self-importance, almost always, misplaced.
However, your daughter has two saving graces...
The first is that the churn in such agencies is high. Employees travel through them rather than see a position as a career so it is highly likely they will be gone soon anyway.
And the second is that the owners of such agencies are driven by billing levels and tend to only promote and appoint based upon the individual's ability to positively influence this. As long as she delivers on this, then she'll earn the respect of her peers over a relatively short time due to the respect she earns from the owners.
In my experience, all of the London agencies tend to be the same. Smaller and provincial agencies are on the whole occupied by more pleasant people.
I have noticed this too. My daughter is climbing the greasy pole in a mid-sized London PR agency. My other daughter works in promotions business in London. Full of cliques and closed peer groups joined by a combined sense of self-importance, almost always, misplaced.
However, your daughter has two saving graces...
The first is that the churn in such agencies is high. Employees travel through them rather than see a position as a career so it is highly likely they will be gone soon anyway.
And the second is that the owners of such agencies are driven by billing levels and tend to only promote and appoint based upon the individual's ability to positively influence this. As long as she delivers on this, then she'll earn the respect of her peers over a relatively short time due to the respect she earns from the owners.
In my experience, all of the London agencies tend to be the same. Smaller and provincial agencies are on the whole occupied by more pleasant people.
OP another suggestion is encourage your daughter to seek out an experienced mentor to help her adjust to the challenges of managing people. Sadly you can't rely of employers to properly train people these days. I spend a lot of time talking through "management" issues with my daughters. The younger one, 23, had her first dismissal situation to deal with recently. She did not have to do the deed herself but the boss acted on largely on her recommendation. She was shaken by the whole affair but we talked it through and she reached the conclusion that it was right for the business and the individual concerned that they parted company. She is now better prepared should the situation arise again and would act with much more confidence.
Robbo 27 said:
She is a bit of a wussy and takes too much to heart and other more junior, and sometimes older, staff that report to her have been vocal in saying why has she been appointed, it doesnt help that she doesnt have the plummy accent that the others have.
You are right she does need to deal with this promptly and effectively otherwise if it is allowed to fester it will ultimately undermine her position and longer term her own self confidence and make her second guess her position.A good start for any new manager/leader is always to initiate one2ones with each direct report on the team within a couple of weeks. Give some notice and very brief agenda, mostly respond to answers with open ended questions and show some enthusiasm to re-enforce positive contributions.
1. What is going well for org/team?
2. What is not going well/what do YOU think we need to improve?
3. What are your personal expectations/goals for the future?
4. Is there anything you think I should know about?
The main purpose of these is engaging with your team, but a side effect is actually collecting insight/intelligence, find out how they think and find out the internal rivalries/alliances and bear traps.
The betting is the person/people will alter their behaviour markedly in a 121 compared to when they are playing a crowd, and is often a mask for their own insecurity. Often their peers and subordinates will have been the victim of a sharp tongue and will be emboldened to stand up against it if they feel it will be supported by management.
Open/start with something light some trivial conversation, useful to start engaging with most of the team and actually disarming potential trouble makers.
It is considered a bit of a cliche but sandwich any criticism. This is especially import in the case of angry/passover team member, prepare an appropriate phrase in advance that is neither to harsh or sugar coated. Calm delivery has bigger impact than shouting which turns people off and if handled badly may give ground for them raising a HR dispute. Lowering the voice to deliver punch line is better. Plan A is to get them back on side and managing them out should be well down the priority list, a last resort.
Something like, "You have been heard to make some (very) disrespectful remarks concerning your colleagues/managers (Pause to let this sink in) I need to see a stop to behaviour and We and cultivation of a constructive relationships going forward before it becomes a serious concern." Perhaps quoting employee handbook, policy, etc.
Let it sink in but do not dwell on it and move onto giving them a way they can demonstrate their value/usefulness to the teams goals going forward. "I think your experience/seniority gives you some potential but I need to be confident you want to be part of this team"
Always send an email afterwards thanking everybody for their great contributions and we will be enacting some of these going forward even if it was (appears) a waste of time and you got nothing big. They won't know if any idea came from a peer or yourself and persistence will pay off by making people more confident contributing positively in future.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Sunday 8th May 21:55
ChasW said:
I have noticed this too. My daughter is climbing the greasy pole in a mid-sized London PR agency. My other daughter works in promotions business in London.
OP another suggestion is encourage your daughter to seek out an experienced mentor to help her adjust to the challenges of managing people. Sadly you can't rely of employers to properly train people these days. I spend a lot of time talking through "management" issues with my daughters. The younger one, 23, had her first dismissal situation to deal with recently. She did not have to do the deed herself but the boss acted on largely on her recommendation. She was shaken by the whole affair but we talked it through and she reached the conclusion that it was right for the business and the individual concerned that they parted company. She is now better prepared should the situation arise again and would act with much more confidence.
Aparently there is something now called the quarter life crisis, around 25 years old. I am going to see if we can fund a mentor or life coach, we are too old and remote, and out of touch with the skills she needs.OP another suggestion is encourage your daughter to seek out an experienced mentor to help her adjust to the challenges of managing people. Sadly you can't rely of employers to properly train people these days. I spend a lot of time talking through "management" issues with my daughters. The younger one, 23, had her first dismissal situation to deal with recently. She did not have to do the deed herself but the boss acted on largely on her recommendation. She was shaken by the whole affair but we talked it through and she reached the conclusion that it was right for the business and the individual concerned that they parted company. She is now better prepared should the situation arise again and would act with much more confidence.
Thank you.
4x4Tyke said:
You are right she does need to deal with this promptly and effectively otherwise if it is allowed to fester it will ultimately undermine her position and longer term her own self confidence and make her second guess her position.
A good start for any new manager/leader is always to initiate one2ones with each direct report on the team within a couple of weeks. Give some notice and very brief agenda, mostly respond to answers with open ended questions and show some enthusiasm to re-enforce positive contributions.
1. What is going well for org/team?
2. What is not going well/what do YOU think we need to improve?
3. What are your personal expectations/goals for the future?
4. Is there anything you think I should know about?
The main purpose of these is engaging with your team, but a side effect is actually collecting insight/intelligence, find out how they think and find out the internal rivalries/alliances and bear traps.
The betting is the person/people will alter their behaviour markedly in a 121 compared to when they are playing a crowd, and is often a mask for their own insecurity. Often their peers and subordinates will have been the victim of a sharp tongue and will be emboldened to stand up against it if they feel it will be supported by management.
Open/start with something light some trivial conversation, useful to start engaging with most of the team and actually disarming potential trouble makers.
It is a bit of a clique but sandwich any criticism during esp during and in this case prepare an appropriate phrase in advance. Calm delivery has bigger impact than shouting which turns people off and if handled badly may give ground for them raising a HR dispute. Lowering the voice to deliver punch line is better.
Something like, "You have been heard to make some (very) disrespectful remarks concerning your colleagues/managers (Pause to let this sink in) I need to see a stop to behaviour and We and cultivate a constructive relationship going forward before it becomes a serious concerns." Perhaps quoting employee handbook, policy, etc.
Let it sink in but do not dwell on it and move onto giving them a way they can demonstrate their value/usefulness to your goals for the team going forward. "I think your experience gives you some potential but I need to be confident you want to be part of this programme"
Always send an email afterwards thanking everybody for their great contributions and we will be enacting some of these going forward even if it was a waste of time and you got nothing, they won't know if any idea came from them or yourself and persistence will pay off by making people more confident contributing positively in future.
A really comprehensive response, thank you. Daughter has sat down with the CEO and has learned that this disquiet, there is problem a stronger work available, is common in the industry but heightened in their company, he is aware that it needs to be addressed and is bringing in people to orchestrate the change.A good start for any new manager/leader is always to initiate one2ones with each direct report on the team within a couple of weeks. Give some notice and very brief agenda, mostly respond to answers with open ended questions and show some enthusiasm to re-enforce positive contributions.
1. What is going well for org/team?
2. What is not going well/what do YOU think we need to improve?
3. What are your personal expectations/goals for the future?
4. Is there anything you think I should know about?
The main purpose of these is engaging with your team, but a side effect is actually collecting insight/intelligence, find out how they think and find out the internal rivalries/alliances and bear traps.
The betting is the person/people will alter their behaviour markedly in a 121 compared to when they are playing a crowd, and is often a mask for their own insecurity. Often their peers and subordinates will have been the victim of a sharp tongue and will be emboldened to stand up against it if they feel it will be supported by management.
Open/start with something light some trivial conversation, useful to start engaging with most of the team and actually disarming potential trouble makers.
It is a bit of a clique but sandwich any criticism during esp during and in this case prepare an appropriate phrase in advance. Calm delivery has bigger impact than shouting which turns people off and if handled badly may give ground for them raising a HR dispute. Lowering the voice to deliver punch line is better.
Something like, "You have been heard to make some (very) disrespectful remarks concerning your colleagues/managers (Pause to let this sink in) I need to see a stop to behaviour and We and cultivate a constructive relationship going forward before it becomes a serious concerns." Perhaps quoting employee handbook, policy, etc.
Let it sink in but do not dwell on it and move onto giving them a way they can demonstrate their value/usefulness to your goals for the team going forward. "I think your experience gives you some potential but I need to be confident you want to be part of this programme"
Always send an email afterwards thanking everybody for their great contributions and we will be enacting some of these going forward even if it was a waste of time and you got nothing, they won't know if any idea came from them or yourself and persistence will pay off by making people more confident contributing positively in future.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Sunday 8th May 19:49
As a seperate issue daughter needs help and guidance, on a personal and professional basis, we will set this up.
You guys have been fantastic in giving some clarity to the real issues and my wife and I really thank you.
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