Job offers: Corporate behemoth vs small business
Discussion
I've got a bit of a difficult choice to make.
Long story cut short -
I'm graduating with an MA in Town Planning this summer following a few years working in Banking. I'm 27 and have just moved from the midlands to Somerset to live with my girlfriend.
I've just been offered 2 jobs - both pay the same money, are 37.5 hours p/w and journey times are roughly similar to either. They would also both pay my professional fees and help with my APC and CPD
Offer 1: Very small rural consultancy based in Chippenham. 5 employees and expanding. Run by a friendly husband and wife team with an office dog. They stressed in the interview about the importance of work/life balance and how I wouldn't be expected to do any unpaid overtime. The other employees there have been there 10+ years and evidently happy working there. 20 days holiday, laptop, travel expenses etc etc.
Advantages: Immediate responsibility, no bureaucracy, office dog, meaningful client relationships
Disadvantages: Stuck out in Chippenham, no-one my age working there, vulnerability of a small business(?), unable to socialise after work because of the drive, only 20 days holiday
Offer 2: Worldwide multidisciplinary consulting firm - offered a planner role in their Bristol Office. Working with a team of 12, 2 blokes who interviewed me were friendly and likeable, 1 would be my line manager. 25 days holiday with flexible benefits package.
Advantages: Bigger company = more opportunities for travel and progression(?), looks better on my CV, good location,
Disadvantages: Would be more anonymous, office politics/bureaucracy, potential for unpaid overtime when things are busy, possibly a more stressful job.
I'm erring towards offer 2 and working in Bristol but I've never worked for a very small business and I know that I'd enjoy the close working relationships with clients and family atmosphere.
Has anyone else had to make a similar choice? did you regret it?
Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks
Long story cut short -
I'm graduating with an MA in Town Planning this summer following a few years working in Banking. I'm 27 and have just moved from the midlands to Somerset to live with my girlfriend.
I've just been offered 2 jobs - both pay the same money, are 37.5 hours p/w and journey times are roughly similar to either. They would also both pay my professional fees and help with my APC and CPD
Offer 1: Very small rural consultancy based in Chippenham. 5 employees and expanding. Run by a friendly husband and wife team with an office dog. They stressed in the interview about the importance of work/life balance and how I wouldn't be expected to do any unpaid overtime. The other employees there have been there 10+ years and evidently happy working there. 20 days holiday, laptop, travel expenses etc etc.
Advantages: Immediate responsibility, no bureaucracy, office dog, meaningful client relationships
Disadvantages: Stuck out in Chippenham, no-one my age working there, vulnerability of a small business(?), unable to socialise after work because of the drive, only 20 days holiday
Offer 2: Worldwide multidisciplinary consulting firm - offered a planner role in their Bristol Office. Working with a team of 12, 2 blokes who interviewed me were friendly and likeable, 1 would be my line manager. 25 days holiday with flexible benefits package.
Advantages: Bigger company = more opportunities for travel and progression(?), looks better on my CV, good location,
Disadvantages: Would be more anonymous, office politics/bureaucracy, potential for unpaid overtime when things are busy, possibly a more stressful job.
I'm erring towards offer 2 and working in Bristol but I've never worked for a very small business and I know that I'd enjoy the close working relationships with clients and family atmosphere.
Has anyone else had to make a similar choice? did you regret it?
Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks
In my (limited) experience, you're considering the right things.
About 3 years ago I moved from a small trading company (15 employees) to a massive energy company with 15,000 (ish) employees.
Since we're currently going through a re-structure, I wouldn't necessarily say my job is more secure, but I get your point. We've also just been through a huge pension overhaul, so that is part can be less secure too.
I miss the dynamic nature of the smaller company though. If I needed something, I made a solid case to the CEO after the markets closed, and was given a yes or no there and then. When I started here, it took me 6 months to get a new chair, (since I'm huge, and couldn't fit on the regular ones.)
In your position I would go for the smaller company, but that's because I'm now 36, have two kids, and value work life balance more than being able to go for a pint with people my own age, but it's a decision only you can make.
(What kind of office dog?)
About 3 years ago I moved from a small trading company (15 employees) to a massive energy company with 15,000 (ish) employees.
Since we're currently going through a re-structure, I wouldn't necessarily say my job is more secure, but I get your point. We've also just been through a huge pension overhaul, so that is part can be less secure too.
I miss the dynamic nature of the smaller company though. If I needed something, I made a solid case to the CEO after the markets closed, and was given a yes or no there and then. When I started here, it took me 6 months to get a new chair, (since I'm huge, and couldn't fit on the regular ones.)
In your position I would go for the smaller company, but that's because I'm now 36, have two kids, and value work life balance more than being able to go for a pint with people my own age, but it's a decision only you can make.
(What kind of office dog?)
Exactly what he said.
I'm similarly in "professional services", and have worked all the way from small firms of 15 people up to multinationals where they can't get a closer headcount than 'to the nearest thousand'... I would go for the small firm all the way, but then I have very limited ambitions. The Peter Principle completely applies to me, I am at my level of incompetence and happy there. As a result, the opportunities in the multinationals (lead teams of thousands, massive P&L responsibility, great career development options) simply don't appeal.
What do you want out of this role - job, or career?
I'm similarly in "professional services", and have worked all the way from small firms of 15 people up to multinationals where they can't get a closer headcount than 'to the nearest thousand'... I would go for the small firm all the way, but then I have very limited ambitions. The Peter Principle completely applies to me, I am at my level of incompetence and happy there. As a result, the opportunities in the multinationals (lead teams of thousands, massive P&L responsibility, great career development options) simply don't appeal.
What do you want out of this role - job, or career?
Also worth bearing in mind that you could easily find you progress quickly in the small firm as you have to do lots of things so you will gain a year's experience per year.
Whereas in the large firm you may find you are poked into a particular pigeon hole and hence after you have written the first three reports, you are simply repeating your first year's experience.
i.e. In five years at the small firm you will have five years' experience. In five years at the large firm you risk having one year's experience repeated five times.
If you are entry level I think that is a significant risk at the larger place. Particularly as you are already a bit older than a new 22/23 year old graduate (and from the sounds of it are settled down with an other half too). Take the smaller job and in a couple of years you can probably jump into the bigger firm at a more senior level.
Whereas in the large firm you may find you are poked into a particular pigeon hole and hence after you have written the first three reports, you are simply repeating your first year's experience.
i.e. In five years at the small firm you will have five years' experience. In five years at the large firm you risk having one year's experience repeated five times.
If you are entry level I think that is a significant risk at the larger place. Particularly as you are already a bit older than a new 22/23 year old graduate (and from the sounds of it are settled down with an other half too). Take the smaller job and in a couple of years you can probably jump into the bigger firm at a more senior level.
Shirt587 said:
...The Peter Principle completely applies to me, I am at my level of incompetence and happy there.
I wish more people were as insightful as this, as it could save them and their employers a whole heap of heartache.As to the OP's question; what does your girlfriend, as a key stakeholder, think?
PS. Great position to be in; well done!
I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to socialise after work.
There are plenty of people at my office in my age bracket but we rarely go out and socialise together, because everyone is in their little team/division and rarely do the two interact. though also my office is a drive away from the town so there isn't immediate access to any kind of socialising anyway. Make friends elsewhere, again, have that balance.
I say.. go small. Enjoy it. Then make yourself valuable and in a few years time you can use that experience much better.
There are plenty of people at my office in my age bracket but we rarely go out and socialise together, because everyone is in their little team/division and rarely do the two interact. though also my office is a drive away from the town so there isn't immediate access to any kind of socialising anyway. Make friends elsewhere, again, have that balance.
I say.. go small. Enjoy it. Then make yourself valuable and in a few years time you can use that experience much better.
Suspect that it's 20 plus bank holidays.
one of the things that always appeals about smaller operations is also the flexibility that they give people. Need to be in at 11 next Tuesday as have to let plumber in to fit new boiler? No issues, you'll make the time up. In big co world that is much harder to sort those little things that make all the real difference.
Personally i would be going to the smaller company and trying it on for size. If it goes well then who knows were you could be in 10 years time? If you find it is not for you then you can still jump ship, but at a higher grade.
As for after hours socials, seriously? I do actually like almost everyone in my office. There are a few who we have round for diner from time to time and so on but it helps if your job is as full on as mine to have separate work and personal lives.
one of the things that always appeals about smaller operations is also the flexibility that they give people. Need to be in at 11 next Tuesday as have to let plumber in to fit new boiler? No issues, you'll make the time up. In big co world that is much harder to sort those little things that make all the real difference.
Personally i would be going to the smaller company and trying it on for size. If it goes well then who knows were you could be in 10 years time? If you find it is not for you then you can still jump ship, but at a higher grade.
As for after hours socials, seriously? I do actually like almost everyone in my office. There are a few who we have round for diner from time to time and so on but it helps if your job is as full on as mine to have separate work and personal lives.
I'd say the smaller company sounds like a better offer.
The lure of the bigger company is the "kudos", trouble is that it never really amounts to much when you talk to people who actually know the company themselves in your industry. Also, you're more likely to get shafted in a "corporate reshuffle" whether you are good at your job or not.
As others have said, is it a "career" you're looking for or just a "job". The career appeals to a lot of people early on but a lot of people tend to find that it's really not all that satisfying, living your life around work just doesn't suit. But don't underestimate the power of the contacts that the small business has either. It's not what you know, more who you know in the majority of industries and I'll take a punt that the small business has (if it's been going a while) a huge amount of industry knowledge you wouldn't necessarily get at the big company. It could be an easier way to a career, a stepping stone if you wish, as long as you don't step on people on your way you could set yourself up very nicely in this way, without having to cuddle up to a middle management bum ever!
That said, I'm not exactly unbiased, I've been working for small businesses for at least 10 years now and I wouldn't want to go anywhere near a corporate juggernaut ever again. Although we have to deal with them as part of our work (our clients are some of the biggest corporate entities in the world) I see what happens to the people we work with and have absolutely no idea how I'd cope with what they do.
The lure of the bigger company is the "kudos", trouble is that it never really amounts to much when you talk to people who actually know the company themselves in your industry. Also, you're more likely to get shafted in a "corporate reshuffle" whether you are good at your job or not.
As others have said, is it a "career" you're looking for or just a "job". The career appeals to a lot of people early on but a lot of people tend to find that it's really not all that satisfying, living your life around work just doesn't suit. But don't underestimate the power of the contacts that the small business has either. It's not what you know, more who you know in the majority of industries and I'll take a punt that the small business has (if it's been going a while) a huge amount of industry knowledge you wouldn't necessarily get at the big company. It could be an easier way to a career, a stepping stone if you wish, as long as you don't step on people on your way you could set yourself up very nicely in this way, without having to cuddle up to a middle management bum ever!
That said, I'm not exactly unbiased, I've been working for small businesses for at least 10 years now and I wouldn't want to go anywhere near a corporate juggernaut ever again. Although we have to deal with them as part of our work (our clients are some of the biggest corporate entities in the world) I see what happens to the people we work with and have absolutely no idea how I'd cope with what they do.
Hi all, thanks for all of your contributions - I really do appreciate them
Couple of further points of clarification which I should have mentioned previously - I was originally offered the job at the smaller firm with a lower salary. I emailed them back and mentioned that I had a few interviews and that the pay was a bit low for me. They emailed straight back offering £3k more - I feel that I can't really negotiate further with them as they've already bent over backwards for me. it does make me feel wanted though!
The social aspect of the job is important to me as I don't really have any friends around where we live as I've only just moved down. I have a few friends in Bristol though so it would be nice to meet them at lunchtimes/after work occasionally. I have really enjoyed socialising with workmates at previous jobs and the office in Bristol has 150+ employees so there should be a few people I like there.
Larger company also offers flexible benefits, generous pension scheme, ability to buy/sell holiday, life insurance etc which the smaller firm obviously isn't able to.
My girlfriend is a junior doctor and has only ever worked hospitals, she doesn't really know but is fed up with me wavering
The points about being able to do more in a smaller firm is resonating with me - I've got until tomorrow afternoon to make a decision so will speak with as many people I know as possible. Any further suggestions/advice is welcome!
Couple of further points of clarification which I should have mentioned previously - I was originally offered the job at the smaller firm with a lower salary. I emailed them back and mentioned that I had a few interviews and that the pay was a bit low for me. They emailed straight back offering £3k more - I feel that I can't really negotiate further with them as they've already bent over backwards for me. it does make me feel wanted though!
The social aspect of the job is important to me as I don't really have any friends around where we live as I've only just moved down. I have a few friends in Bristol though so it would be nice to meet them at lunchtimes/after work occasionally. I have really enjoyed socialising with workmates at previous jobs and the office in Bristol has 150+ employees so there should be a few people I like there.
Larger company also offers flexible benefits, generous pension scheme, ability to buy/sell holiday, life insurance etc which the smaller firm obviously isn't able to.
My girlfriend is a junior doctor and has only ever worked hospitals, she doesn't really know but is fed up with me wavering
The points about being able to do more in a smaller firm is resonating with me - I've got until tomorrow afternoon to make a decision so will speak with as many people I know as possible. Any further suggestions/advice is welcome!
Work friends are often over-rated. And of the proper friends I've made at work, none of them have been the same age as me.
The fact that there's a dog in the office would probably tip me in favour of the small place.
But starting out in a career there's two ways of looking at it. A big place will allow you fairly quick career advancement but it will likely mean they'll want you to move to different offices, and possibly different countries, according to business need. If you do want to stay in one place for the medium term then your career prospects will likely be blunted with that firm.
On the other hand the smaller firm will have lower turnover meaning that you'll not have much of a chance to move up the ladder - not that it will have many rungs anyway. What will be nice about a small firm is that you'll have the opportunity to own projects completely, following them through from end to end - which is not common in a bigger place. You'll get a much better start in terms of knowing how the job works.
To cut it short - if you want to move into management reasonably quickly I think the big firm is better, if you want to be fulfilled by doing the job itself, go for the small firm IMO.
The fact that there's a dog in the office would probably tip me in favour of the small place.
But starting out in a career there's two ways of looking at it. A big place will allow you fairly quick career advancement but it will likely mean they'll want you to move to different offices, and possibly different countries, according to business need. If you do want to stay in one place for the medium term then your career prospects will likely be blunted with that firm.
On the other hand the smaller firm will have lower turnover meaning that you'll not have much of a chance to move up the ladder - not that it will have many rungs anyway. What will be nice about a small firm is that you'll have the opportunity to own projects completely, following them through from end to end - which is not common in a bigger place. You'll get a much better start in terms of knowing how the job works.
To cut it short - if you want to move into management reasonably quickly I think the big firm is better, if you want to be fulfilled by doing the job itself, go for the small firm IMO.
I'd go with the big firm. You've already had to push the small firm to match your salary expectations - and they're still a week short on holiday (so, you're 1 week's salary down already!).
But have a good look at the pension from the big firm - there are still some multi-nationals paying significant pension contributions - I'm not on a final salary scheme, but my employers are putting 20% of my salary into my pension vs. my 7.5%. That's worth 5 figures a year over what the same job gets elsewhere.
Look at the ceiling, too - even if you don't want to go anywhere higher right now - are there really any opportunities for non-family members to occupy a senior position in the smaller business?
But have a good look at the pension from the big firm - there are still some multi-nationals paying significant pension contributions - I'm not on a final salary scheme, but my employers are putting 20% of my salary into my pension vs. my 7.5%. That's worth 5 figures a year over what the same job gets elsewhere.
Look at the ceiling, too - even if you don't want to go anywhere higher right now - are there really any opportunities for non-family members to occupy a senior position in the smaller business?
I graduated in 2009 and almost fel into a role with a very large accounting firm. Having since left, it's amazing how significant that experience is for opening doors despite having relevant industry experience subsequently.
In my view I would take the big firm and get a few years under your belt. What you will get there is a bredth of experience that small firms just can't match as well as a blue chip firm on the CV for future moves (particularly handy if moving geographically where the big firm would still have a reputation in other cities). After a few years and your qualification then reconsider your options.
All in my opinion and likely based on my experience in a slightly different sector.
In my view I would take the big firm and get a few years under your belt. What you will get there is a bredth of experience that small firms just can't match as well as a blue chip firm on the CV for future moves (particularly handy if moving geographically where the big firm would still have a reputation in other cities). After a few years and your qualification then reconsider your options.
All in my opinion and likely based on my experience in a slightly different sector.
OP - how long do you see yourself at either company?
I prefer to work for small companies myself, but 20 days holiday is a bit pants. Where I work everyone starts on 28 days holiday, and we all go for lunch at the pub once a month all paid for in company time. It's a little thing, but a little thing that doesn't happen at big companies. I mostly like the feeling of being able to affect things more, at a big company I feel I could just sit there for most of the year doing little and it wouldn't make much difference.
I prefer to work for small companies myself, but 20 days holiday is a bit pants. Where I work everyone starts on 28 days holiday, and we all go for lunch at the pub once a month all paid for in company time. It's a little thing, but a little thing that doesn't happen at big companies. I mostly like the feeling of being able to affect things more, at a big company I feel I could just sit there for most of the year doing little and it wouldn't make much difference.
Interesting topic...
I work for a small consulting company. I've been here for 3 years, having spent my entire prior working life in multi-nationals (I'm early 40s).
I probably work more hours than I ever did in big business. It's pretty stressful due to us being small and having multiple big projects on the go. Last year I only took 15 days holiday. And there's the issue of being vulnerable to us losing contracts and going out of business.
BUT... I love it.
There's more autonomy, more responsibility, more of a 'family' feel to the business. I work from home when not travelling. I don't have set work hours - no one knows, or cares, what hours I'm doing but there's obviously work to get through. There's no limit to how many days of holiday I can take (if I can fit them in!) and if I want to go and live in another country, either permanently or temporarily, I can.
I would really try to understand what the small firm is offering in terms of flexibility. Yes, the big firm might be offering an extra 5 days of holiday, but if the small firm are easy going with regard to time off here and there to do whatever you need to do, then that might be more use to you.
A couple of other points regarding your thoughts on what's on offer: don't consider a laptop and travel expenses as a perk, if you were. They're necessary to do your job, unless you're being very charitable. Don't put too much weight on the opportunity to travel. Business travel is rarely anything but a chore. I've worked all over the world, and even with my generous and easygoing employer, there's seldom any enjoyment in that aspect.
Just going back to the job security thing, I suppose you're more likely to end up out of work at very short notice with a small business but don't forget in a big firm you could be out on a whim if future plans change and you're just a number...
I work for a small consulting company. I've been here for 3 years, having spent my entire prior working life in multi-nationals (I'm early 40s).
I probably work more hours than I ever did in big business. It's pretty stressful due to us being small and having multiple big projects on the go. Last year I only took 15 days holiday. And there's the issue of being vulnerable to us losing contracts and going out of business.
BUT... I love it.
There's more autonomy, more responsibility, more of a 'family' feel to the business. I work from home when not travelling. I don't have set work hours - no one knows, or cares, what hours I'm doing but there's obviously work to get through. There's no limit to how many days of holiday I can take (if I can fit them in!) and if I want to go and live in another country, either permanently or temporarily, I can.
I would really try to understand what the small firm is offering in terms of flexibility. Yes, the big firm might be offering an extra 5 days of holiday, but if the small firm are easy going with regard to time off here and there to do whatever you need to do, then that might be more use to you.
A couple of other points regarding your thoughts on what's on offer: don't consider a laptop and travel expenses as a perk, if you were. They're necessary to do your job, unless you're being very charitable. Don't put too much weight on the opportunity to travel. Business travel is rarely anything but a chore. I've worked all over the world, and even with my generous and easygoing employer, there's seldom any enjoyment in that aspect.
Just going back to the job security thing, I suppose you're more likely to end up out of work at very short notice with a small business but don't forget in a big firm you could be out on a whim if future plans change and you're just a number...
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