Helping my post grad daughter

[anonymous-user]

Request for help PH please....

My 21 year old daughter has returned home having gained a first in philosophy. She is looking for employment and so far finding it frustrating.

Although she has no specific job role in mind she is particularly keen on research and journalism, perhaps wanting to work for a think tank or in the research depts of a large organisation for example the BBC or similar (not necessarily media, thats just an example)

The problem is that she has come down to earth with a bump and is slowly realising that jobs don't come looking.

Being a caring Father I want to help her by perhaps helping her target jobs, enlist in appropriate areas and generally work efficiently in finding a step stone into her career.

The thing is - I run my own small car realted business and have little experience in todays corporate world and how things work on the job seeking front.

Please can someone help me structure a path of 'the right things to do' in terms of getting her name out there, utilising search tools, websites etc? Perhaps some pointers that I can pass on to her?


She's a very bright thing - just needing a bit of direction and help to avoid her getting frustrated.

Any help really appreciated in this matter

[mike9009]

Hi

Did she consider a PHD? It feels like the natural progression especially with her desire to get into research. Most research councils look for doctorates as this shows the ability to research stuff rather than study stuff.

I suspect she wants to get earning though? So it could be a little tricky to find the right job which is not being competed for against doctorates, despite the first class degree.

I can't offer any advice in the particular fields - but a graduate recruitment programme sounds ideal.


Mike

[The Beaver King]

I think initally she needs to really think about what she wants to do; it doesn't have to be one job, but a list of 5 or 6 different careers that interest her and she is capable of doing.

From there, she'll need to look at what level she can get in at for each career path and research routes of entry.

Then it is a case of attending open days, sending CVs, emailing key roles in companies she is interested in, networking, learning about the types of business that interest her etc.

She'll need to get a job in the meantime; something to keep her ticking over and active. If she can manage it, a position in a company that she is interested in long term, but a 'lesser' role, admin or assistant etc. Something that will get her foot in the door and then allow her to apply for roles internally when they crop up.

It is a long road and most of it is down to luck, but you can increase your chances by putting yourself in the right position.

When my brother finished his MSc in Physics, he attended every open day and networking opportunity for his chosen career. It still took him 2 years to get an offer and he was pretty much perfect for the role.

Persevere and good luck to her

[Foliage]

Local supermarket, shelf stacking job, gives her time to ponder why her father allowed her to make such a poor vocation choice..

Or she could go to business school and do her MBA, or join the military as an officer. What jobs that actually make money require a degree in philosophy? what other skills does she have?

[hornetrider]

Foliage said:

Local supermarket, shelf stacking job, gives her time to ponder why her father allowed her to make such a poor vocation choice..

Are you a cock in real life, or is it just your internet persona?

[AyBee]

Where did she go and what grade did she leave with?

[ChasW]

I sympathise. I went through a similar phase with one of my daughters. Strangely the brightest and best qualified. She has a 2.1 followed by a Masters from a prestigious institution, all by the age of 22. She had her heart set on a research role in social policy. Sadly she missed out narrowly on recruitment into the Home Office working on criminal justice issues. What I learned is that these types of jobs are highly sought after. On the occasions she reached shortlist stage she was competing against 26/27 year olds with equivalent qualifications but the advantage of work experience which employers will always plump for.

Cut a long story short. She worked on my mate's farm for a year and helped build up the online presence to attract retail traffic. One of his customers noticed the difference she was making. This chap knew of her ambitions and offered her an admin role in his PR company. It was boring job but she had her foot on the ladder and moved after 10 months moved to a bona fide PR role. She has climbed a couple of rungs since and is building her reputation. She still wants to work in social policy and will probably get into it via the PR route at some point.

The moral of the story is that the family network was her pathway into work. In one of her job moves her boss took her to another company when she was poached.

I know some people scoff at using contacts but it's the way the world goes around. My youngest works for my wife's first boyfriend! I have helped other people's kids either with coaching or introductions to internship opportunities.

[Foliage]

hornetrider said:

Foliage said:

Local supermarket, shelf stacking job, gives her time to ponder why her father allowed her to make such a poor vocation choice..

Are you a cock in real life, or is it just your internet persona?

In real life too, but their is no denying that the UK education system isn't fit for purpose and continues to churn out young adults with little to no knowledge of the career of which they have just trained, surely if the OPs daughter has partaken in a degree she should have at least researched what avenues of employment are open to her, managing her own expectations and perhaps not sticking all her eggs in one basket, it is likely along with many many young adults that she will spend her formative years stacking shelves, along with these many young adults the ops daughter has fallen into the trap of believing that the people in education actually understand the uk's employment landscape when its likely that many of them are career academics...

But you know I'm just a cock.

ETA - https://www.kent.ac.uk/ces/student/degree/philosop...
https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/job-descri...

Could she maybe do some social research for your company?

Edited by Foliage on Tuesday 2nd August 10:56

[battered]

All universities will give careers advice, regardless of where you went. This might help.

Their general advice is to draw up things you like doing and things you don't, then start to match that up with job content. If you like people and dealing with their variabilities, then don't be an IT engineer or an ops manager. If you don't like people, then don't be a teacher, social worker, etc. Extreme examples I know but it also goes for financial/monetary reasoning, problem solving, touchy/feely stuff around social interactions, etc.

I'm glad I'm concerned with food manufacturing processes. My personal interaction runs about as far as "that's the way the job works, get on with it and I don't want to hear any yawp". Yes, it's not very sensitive but I haven't seen many youth workers who are especially good at working out how to make a manufacturing process run. Horses for courses.

[hornetrider]

Foliage said:

In real life too, but their is no denying that the UK education system isn't fit for purpose...

Evidently.

[ChasW]

Fortunately there are some universities where the penny has dropped about employment prospects. It's no surprise that these institutions are climbing the rankings. My youngest went to Bournemouth on a 4 year sandwich course. I was surprised that nearly all the students in her year got decent placements and later ended-up in acceptable first jobs. Then I spoke to some of the big graduate employers that happened to be clients of mine and the name Bournemouth often came up as an example of a Uni in touch with employers needs. She studied marketing, often thought of as one of the woolly subjects.

I don't have a problem with someone studying philosophy. There are jobs out there for these kids. It's just that it's so competitive as the work is interesting and can be quite well paid. My other daughter, a philosophy graduate, was shortlisted for a policy role with a major charity. The staring salary and benefits were far superior to what was being offered in the private sector.

[battered]

hornetrider said:

Foliage said:

In real life too, but their is no denying that the UK education system isn't fit for purpose...

Evidently.

It depends what you regard as its purpose. If education is just a sausage factory turning out teachers and engineers and no more, then yes. However if education has its own ends and is about turning out educated people that may later apply their skills to jobs that may not even currently exist, then it needs to be a little broader than purely vocational training.

[ChasW]

battered said:

hornetrider said:

Foliage said:

In real life too, but their is no denying that the UK education system isn't fit for purpose...

Evidently.

It depends what you regard as its purpose. If education is just a sausage factory turning out teachers and engineers and no more, then yes. However if education has its own ends and is about turning out educated people that may later apply their skills to jobs that may not even currently exist, then it needs to be a little broader than purely vocational training.

I think the issue is not whether the system fit-for-purpose but that supply exceeds demand. The fact that UTCs are quite successful must be a clue that not so many graduates are required. I would not be surprised to see some universities shrink or just go out of business. There is overcapacity in the market unless they can attract more foreign students.

[prand]

battered said:

hornetrider said:

Foliage said:

In real life too, but their is no denying that the UK education system isn't fit for purpose...

Evidently.

It depends what you regard as its purpose. If education is just a sausage factory turning out teachers and engineers and no more, then yes. However if education has its own ends and is about turning out educated people that may later apply their skills to jobs that may not even currently exist, then it needs to be a little broader than purely vocational training.

I think Hornetrider was pointing out the spelling mistake as an example of our "broke" education system.

I also don't agree with Foliage's recommendation of an MBA as a next step. At 21 you really have no idea about anything (apologies to the wise 21 year olds among us) and you will not get the best out of doing an MBA that you could get perhaps 10 years later once you can apply your learning to experience gained in the real world. Plus it's £40k for an MBA, what graduate has that sort of money? (back to you Dad!)

Really, your daughter ought to think about her ultimate aim in life, is it personal reward, social vocation, research, commerce etc etc, and try and map a way to it.

My main message would be that she should not expect a perfect job to appear right in front of her. It may well do, but make sure she keeps working at something that would get her where she ultimately wants to be, while getting some general life and work experience on the way (simply being in an office will teach you skills that you can take to any job for example).

There do seem to be many more internships, grad schemes, volunteer work, modern apprentice schemes around compared to when I graduated, have a look at these, though competition is high. And never forget the value of knocking on doors or using family/friend connections.

Make sure whatever she does, she builds in something to avoid getting stuck in a rut if, as she grows up and changes her mind she can take her experience with her too.

[Joey Ramone]

AyBee said:

Where did she go and what grade did she leave with?

She got a first. It was in the second line of the original post.

Your initial query is pertinent though. First from Cambridge, or a first from Falmouth?

My advice would be to seek temporary employment in a Govt department of some sort. From there, seek to be made permanent. Then from there, move sideways. A friend of mine began on a short term contract with DERA after leavig university (King's College London) and now she's a senior Treasury official. Others I know of have have gone from DVLA into the Cabinet Office, for example.

[ChasW]

Joey Ramone said:

She got a first. It was in the second line of the original post.

Your initial query is pertinent though. First from Cambridge, or a first from Falmouth?

My advice would be to seek temporary employment in a Govt department of some sort. From there, seek to be made permanent. Then from there, move sideways. A friend of mine began on a short term contract with DERA after leavig university (King's College London) and now she's a senior Treasury official. Others I know of have have gone from DVLA into the Cabinet Office, for example.

Good points about temp work. Also if you do narrowly miss out on civil service type roles it can be because they have filled their quota. However I know some departments keep reserve lists. We lost one of our start performers who had just failed to get into the Treasury. About 9 months later they contacted her out of blue and invited her for interview. Sadly for us she got the job. It's a pain but our attitude was that you can't really moan if people leave for the dream jobs. It's when they leave for crappy jobs you should start worrying!

[anothernameitist]

Well I'm mot the uni educated sort.

So i'd go with a job in a big organisation to get some working life experiance, so maybe working stacking shelves is not such a cock idea.

Would she be up for charity work or volunteering abroad to get a taste of life.

my post doesn't mean to sound harsh and I'm not sayijg she isn't street wise but these might just be thinking out of the box alternatives.

Whatever she chooses good luck.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Foliage said:

hornetrider said:

Foliage said:

Local supermarket, shelf stacking job, gives her time to ponder why her father allowed her to make such a poor vocation choice..

Are you a cock in real life, or is it just your internet persona?

In real life too, but their is no denying that the UK education system isn't fit for purpose and continues to churn out young adults with little to no knowledge of the career of which they have just trained, surely if the OPs daughter has partaken in a degree she should have at least researched what avenues of employment are open to her, managing her own expectations and perhaps not sticking all her eggs in one basket, it is likely along with many many young adults that she will spend her formative years stacking shelves, along with these many young adults the ops daughter has fallen into the trap of believing that the people in education actually understand the uk's employment landscape when its likely that many of them are career academics...

But you know I'm just a cock.

ETA - https://www.kent.ac.uk/ces/student/degree/philosop...
https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/job-descri...

Could she maybe do some social research for your company?

Edited by Foliage on Tuesday 2nd August 10:56

You're a cock for thinking that her father, even if his didn't approve of her course choice, has the ability to disallow his adult daughter, a grown woman, from studying whatever she chooses to at uni.

[Foliage]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

You're a cock for thinking that her father, even if his didn't approve of her course choice, has the ability to disallow his adult daughter, a grown woman, from studying whatever she chooses to at uni.

Interesting take on what I done wrote.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Foliage said:

gives her time to ponder why her father allowed her to make such a poor vocation choice..

Not really. Pretty much the only take going.