Son wants to go into teaching – which route to take?
Discussion
Good Morning folks
I hope you're all well. My son will be sitting his GCSE exams this summer. However, he is not confident that he will achieve the required minimum 5 GCSE grades between A and C in order to progress to A level study.
This is going to have a domino effect because in the long run he wants to become a secondary school teacher and in order to get there, he would need to study for a degree at university, In order to study for the degree, he would need to achieve his A levels. And as stated in the previous paragraph, he may not be able to get on to the A level study programme since he may not achieve the 5 GCSE passes.
I know most of you would say wait until he sits the exams and the results come out then plan ahead. But we both want to plan as far ahead as possible. If he achieves his 5 GCSEs then great he would be able to progress on to the A level study. However, what if he doesn't achieve his GCSE passes? What would you suggest?
I think one route is going on to the BTec course which has less strict entry requirements. However, I get the feeling that most teaching courses at universities do not look favourably on BTec applicants. Is that true? If my son does take the BTec route, would any particular Btec be more suited if he wants to progress on to a university degree teaching course? Or is it just a matter of ringing around local universities and finding out which Btec courses they would allow entry on to their university teaching courses?
Finally, another option would be to retake the GCSEs for another academic year, in order to make sure he achieves his required 5 GCSE passes and progress on to the A level course and then the university teaching course.
What would you suggest?
Thank You.
I hope you're all well. My son will be sitting his GCSE exams this summer. However, he is not confident that he will achieve the required minimum 5 GCSE grades between A and C in order to progress to A level study.
This is going to have a domino effect because in the long run he wants to become a secondary school teacher and in order to get there, he would need to study for a degree at university, In order to study for the degree, he would need to achieve his A levels. And as stated in the previous paragraph, he may not be able to get on to the A level study programme since he may not achieve the 5 GCSE passes.
I know most of you would say wait until he sits the exams and the results come out then plan ahead. But we both want to plan as far ahead as possible. If he achieves his 5 GCSEs then great he would be able to progress on to the A level study. However, what if he doesn't achieve his GCSE passes? What would you suggest?
I think one route is going on to the BTec course which has less strict entry requirements. However, I get the feeling that most teaching courses at universities do not look favourably on BTec applicants. Is that true? If my son does take the BTec route, would any particular Btec be more suited if he wants to progress on to a university degree teaching course? Or is it just a matter of ringing around local universities and finding out which Btec courses they would allow entry on to their university teaching courses?
Finally, another option would be to retake the GCSEs for another academic year, in order to make sure he achieves his required 5 GCSE passes and progress on to the A level course and then the university teaching course.
What would you suggest?
Thank You.
One route I believe is fairly common is to start working as a teaching assistant and train to be a teacher 'on the job'.
He will still need a degree, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a teaching degree as the school-led training leads to a PGCE.
My wife is a teacher and did a 4 year teaching degree, but that means that her degree isn't widely transferable should teaching not appeal (fortunately it does for her). Personally I would advise on a 3-year non-teaching degree followed by a 1-year PCGE anyway, as that keeps the options open.
He will still need a degree, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a teaching degree as the school-led training leads to a PGCE.
My wife is a teacher and did a 4 year teaching degree, but that means that her degree isn't widely transferable should teaching not appeal (fortunately it does for her). Personally I would advise on a 3-year non-teaching degree followed by a 1-year PCGE anyway, as that keeps the options open.
This isn't exactly answering your question but, having been a teacher myself, I would really not recommend it as a career.
It really is a vocation and, unless you are desperate to do it, it is a terrible job.
BBC Three did a documentary series called 'Tough Young Teachers' which shows exactly what it is like. The first thing he, and probably you, should do is watch every single one of those.
Apart from that, good luck!
It really is a vocation and, unless you are desperate to do it, it is a terrible job.
BBC Three did a documentary series called 'Tough Young Teachers' which shows exactly what it is like. The first thing he, and probably you, should do is watch every single one of those.
Apart from that, good luck!
If he blobs his GCSEs then get him some additional study over the summer for a November resit. If he does the work, he will pass, unless he is as thick as pigs**t, which I doubt.
That's his incentive to do some work between now and June, too. If he passes, he gets a summer. If not, he spends all summer holidays indoors doing past papers
That's his incentive to do some work between now and June, too. If he passes, he gets a summer. If not, he spends all summer holidays indoors doing past papers
BigMon said:
This isn't exactly answering your question but, having been a teacher myself, I would really not recommend it as a career.
It really is a vocation and, unless you are desperate to do it, it is a terrible job.
BBC Three did a documentary series called 'Tough Young Teachers' which shows exactly what it is like. The first thing he, and probably you, should do is watch every single one of those.
Apart from that, good luck!
For starters this, I have a few teaching friends + my wife's parents were both teachers, now retired. There's no way on earth I would want it as a career.It really is a vocation and, unless you are desperate to do it, it is a terrible job.
BBC Three did a documentary series called 'Tough Young Teachers' which shows exactly what it is like. The first thing he, and probably you, should do is watch every single one of those.
Apart from that, good luck!
Secondly, and I don't want to piss on your / your son's bonfire but if he's struggling to pass 5 GCSEs then I'm not sure he's going to make a very good teacher which ever path he could choose to get into the profession and that's assuming he's able to pass all the other exams etc. along the way. That said he may surprise you, pass all his GCSEs and crack on with the A levels. Things change anyway, I had a fair idea as to what I wanted to do after finishing my GCSEs (Electronics) but not everyone does.
Hi Folks
Many thanks for your advice. I quite like the idea that StuTheGrough suggests of studying for a 3 year non teaching degree and then going on to a PGCE. However, I suppose he would require a 2:1 in order to get accepted on the PGCE?
battered - I see what you mean, but not sure if exam boards do a November resit. Even if they do, and he passes the resits, he still won't be able to enrol on the A level course this September (because it's before the resits) ?
Many thanks for your advice. I quite like the idea that StuTheGrough suggests of studying for a 3 year non teaching degree and then going on to a PGCE. However, I suppose he would require a 2:1 in order to get accepted on the PGCE?
battered - I see what you mean, but not sure if exam boards do a November resit. Even if they do, and he passes the resits, he still won't be able to enrol on the A level course this September (because it's before the resits) ?
geek84 said:
Hi Folks
Many thanks for your advice. I quite like the idea that StuTheGrough suggests of studying for a 3 year non teaching degree and then going on to a PGCE. However, I suppose he would require a 2:1 in order to get accepted on the PGCE?
battered - I see what you mean, but not sure if exam boards do a November resit. Even if they do, and he passes the resits, he still won't be able to enrol on the A level course this September (because it's before the resits) ?
Grouch. Like Oscar the grouch.Many thanks for your advice. I quite like the idea that StuTheGrough suggests of studying for a 3 year non teaching degree and then going on to a PGCE. However, I suppose he would require a 2:1 in order to get accepted on the PGCE?
battered - I see what you mean, but not sure if exam boards do a November resit. Even if they do, and he passes the resits, he still won't be able to enrol on the A level course this September (because it's before the resits) ?
A 2:2 degree is the minimum for the PGCE, but the first degree must be closely related to the teaching topic. So don't do something like media studies if you wish to teach maths. As others have said, this is not a career many aspire to and so they are quite keen to get people through the door. Many I know who completed the 4-year degree my wife did and those who did the 3 + PGCE have left the profession now, or want to leave. Some have done very well and are headteachers at large, successful schools. These people graduated in 2004 and 2005, so I'm talking 12 years on.
I went to a PGCE open day when I was approaching the end of my first degree, as I did a very in-demand subject and so had all the incentives open to me (golden handshake, bonuses, bursaries etc). Absolutely not for me- I am way too impatient, hate teenagers and the topic I would teach was hated (chemistry).
To back up my earlier advice of a non-teaching degree first, Nottingham Trent University state this:
We ask that you have some school observation experience before you apply, just to make sure that working in a school is for you. But if you are still not 100% certain, why not take an education-related degree or other degree and then decide if you want to take a PGCE? Your degree will need to be in or related to the subject you want to teach at PGCE, such as Sport if you want to teach PE, or Economics to teach Maths. Talk to our Admission Team if you need guidance.
https://www4.ntu.ac.uk/edu/teacher_training/why-te...
OP, can I ask why he wants to be a teacher?
The first reason I ask that is that there are record numbers of teachers leaving the profession, especially young NQTs, it just isn't the job they imagined it to be. As stated up the thread, the BBC have covered this a lot lately. I know several teachers who all have numerous complaints about the profession, one of whom was interviewed on this local radio program recently. It is worth 5 minutes of your time and your son's to listen to it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04swsng
Secondly, and I hope you take this in a non-judgmental way, but if he is struggling to get 5 GCSEs then maybe academia isn't for him? My wife is dyslexic, from a strong academic family, struggled at school, failed all her GCSEs, made to feel a failure, but got on in life in her own way.
With all due respect, I wouldn't want my kid being taught at school by somebody who had struggled to get the lowest level of qualification. Is he really cut out for degree level study? There are plenty of other options in life that he could succeed in.
Good on you for taking a positive approach to this, I got bugger all career guidance from my parents at his age and I really needed it at the time.
The first reason I ask that is that there are record numbers of teachers leaving the profession, especially young NQTs, it just isn't the job they imagined it to be. As stated up the thread, the BBC have covered this a lot lately. I know several teachers who all have numerous complaints about the profession, one of whom was interviewed on this local radio program recently. It is worth 5 minutes of your time and your son's to listen to it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04swsng
Secondly, and I hope you take this in a non-judgmental way, but if he is struggling to get 5 GCSEs then maybe academia isn't for him? My wife is dyslexic, from a strong academic family, struggled at school, failed all her GCSEs, made to feel a failure, but got on in life in her own way.
With all due respect, I wouldn't want my kid being taught at school by somebody who had struggled to get the lowest level of qualification. Is he really cut out for degree level study? There are plenty of other options in life that he could succeed in.
Good on you for taking a positive approach to this, I got bugger all career guidance from my parents at his age and I really needed it at the time.
just a note of (more) caution.
my wife and i are trying to get to New Zealand, we found out recently that her full on 4 year BeD course is accepted out there, but nothing else is, so the people who qualify through PGCE and Skit etc would have to work as a TA in NZ and OZ and then take an exam.
I don't know about other countries, but I am led to believe it's the same in US and Canada.
Just in case he ever wanted to teach abroad.
Also I do realise that thinking he can't pass 5 gcse's would not give great confidence in him, but a mate is now a head of a school, he left with just 3 o levels, but decided he wanted to improve himself etc, so through courses at evening classes and part time collage etc, he scraped onto a skit (i think) course, passed and within 10 years is now a head.
he struggled as he wasn't diagnosed with dyslexia until he was 25, he just always thought his english was poor. he can think it and say it, but struggles to write it down. yet he now does his paperwork on the computer and his primary was just rated good at ofsted, so it can be done.
also as others have said, it's not a career to enter unless you really want to teach. my wife is a DH and has been told she would make a great head, but she would lose the teaching and it's the interaction with the kids she loves. the other crap she can do without.
teaching, the only job where you steal stationary from home to take to work.
all joking aside, her job has cost us £400+ since september in books and materials for lessons. lucky she's cute!
my wife and i are trying to get to New Zealand, we found out recently that her full on 4 year BeD course is accepted out there, but nothing else is, so the people who qualify through PGCE and Skit etc would have to work as a TA in NZ and OZ and then take an exam.
I don't know about other countries, but I am led to believe it's the same in US and Canada.
Just in case he ever wanted to teach abroad.
Also I do realise that thinking he can't pass 5 gcse's would not give great confidence in him, but a mate is now a head of a school, he left with just 3 o levels, but decided he wanted to improve himself etc, so through courses at evening classes and part time collage etc, he scraped onto a skit (i think) course, passed and within 10 years is now a head.
he struggled as he wasn't diagnosed with dyslexia until he was 25, he just always thought his english was poor. he can think it and say it, but struggles to write it down. yet he now does his paperwork on the computer and his primary was just rated good at ofsted, so it can be done.
also as others have said, it's not a career to enter unless you really want to teach. my wife is a DH and has been told she would make a great head, but she would lose the teaching and it's the interaction with the kids she loves. the other crap she can do without.
teaching, the only job where you steal stationary from home to take to work.
all joking aside, her job has cost us £400+ since september in books and materials for lessons. lucky she's cute!
Hi Folks
Once again, many thanks for your replies. I am well aware of the struggles facing the teaching profession and the number of people leaving it. I have explained all this time and time again to my son, but it seems he is determined to go down this route. I did consider suggesting to him to teach English as a foreign language, but aren't those type of job roles on a part time basis at colleges?
Just out of interest, where do the people who leave the teaching profession end up doing?
Once again, many thanks for your replies. I am well aware of the struggles facing the teaching profession and the number of people leaving it. I have explained all this time and time again to my son, but it seems he is determined to go down this route. I did consider suggesting to him to teach English as a foreign language, but aren't those type of job roles on a part time basis at colleges?
Just out of interest, where do the people who leave the teaching profession end up doing?
I can see why people are talking about his potential struggle for GCSEs and being suited to the profession, or even degree study.
At my University colleagues won't consider PhD candidates or applicants for academic/research positions unless they achieved at least a 2:1 in their first degree. This is regardless of having a further MSc (or a PhD in the case of staff members). They are often surprised to learn that I belong to the group they would exclude, yet I've done very well academically since my undergraduate degree. Basically, early performance doesn't indicate that much- it's the lessons learned on the way (in my case, stop getting drunk and get on with some work!).
At my University colleagues won't consider PhD candidates or applicants for academic/research positions unless they achieved at least a 2:1 in their first degree. This is regardless of having a further MSc (or a PhD in the case of staff members). They are often surprised to learn that I belong to the group they would exclude, yet I've done very well academically since my undergraduate degree. Basically, early performance doesn't indicate that much- it's the lessons learned on the way (in my case, stop getting drunk and get on with some work!).
geek84 said:
Just out of interest, where do the people who leave the teaching profession end up doing?
Depends on their degree topics. Those with a 'science' undergraduate plus the PGCE would have plenty of options. Many I know actually still work with school groups in some capacity, such as being an education officer at local authorities (similar pay but far less stress).geek84 said:
Hi Folks
Once again, many thanks for your replies. I am well aware of the struggles facing the teaching profession and the number of people leaving it. I have explained all this time and time again to my son, but it seems he is determined to go down this route. I did consider suggesting to him to teach English as a foreign language, but aren't those type of job roles on a part time basis at colleges?
Just out of interest, where do the people who leave the teaching profession end up doing?
Sorry to play Devil's Advocate OP, but you've not answered my question. Why does he want to be a teacher? If the answer is 'because I can't think of what else to do' (several people I know went into teaching for this reason - some successful, some not) then I think he might struggle. Once again, many thanks for your replies. I am well aware of the struggles facing the teaching profession and the number of people leaving it. I have explained all this time and time again to my son, but it seems he is determined to go down this route. I did consider suggesting to him to teach English as a foreign language, but aren't those type of job roles on a part time basis at colleges?
Just out of interest, where do the people who leave the teaching profession end up doing?
Of my two friends who have left the job in the UK, one went abroad and is currently loving his job in Hong Kong, and the other (someone who retrained in order to 'give something back') returned to what she did before - IT Project Management in the private sector. Far more money for less hours and less stress - it was specifically the latter (being a slave to Ofsted) that made her jack it in after 2yrs and return to what she did previously.
My daughter did work experience at a well regarded rural primary school whilst she was in sixth form, she took to it like a duck to water and received an excellent assessment.
Previously at a loss as to career choice she knuckled down and attained the grades to earn a place at one of the top ten teacher training colleges.
Knowing that many students leave uni not wanting the career they chose on entry. I advised her to keep her options open, do a normal degree then if in three years she still wanted to teach then she could do a short teaching course, in other words keep her options open.
Anyhow after one year of lectures and on the job experience she realised that being a primary teacher was not so much about interacting with children but more like sitting at the front of the class filling in forms whilst the teaching assistants did the teaching. She left the course and had to start another degree from scratch.
The advice I am trying to put across is to keep your options open, In five years your son may be a totally different person.
Previously at a loss as to career choice she knuckled down and attained the grades to earn a place at one of the top ten teacher training colleges.
Knowing that many students leave uni not wanting the career they chose on entry. I advised her to keep her options open, do a normal degree then if in three years she still wanted to teach then she could do a short teaching course, in other words keep her options open.
Anyhow after one year of lectures and on the job experience she realised that being a primary teacher was not so much about interacting with children but more like sitting at the front of the class filling in forms whilst the teaching assistants did the teaching. She left the course and had to start another degree from scratch.
The advice I am trying to put across is to keep your options open, In five years your son may be a totally different person.
Hi Folks
Once again, many thanks for you responses.
My son seems to give reasons such as he likes helping/advising people and organizing things, and that is why he wants to go into teaching.
However, my gut feeling is (although I agree with some of his reasons) is that he can see all the holidays and seems to think that the teachers would have at least half those holidays to enjoy (after completing their marking and other admin work). !!
Once again, many thanks for you responses.
My son seems to give reasons such as he likes helping/advising people and organizing things, and that is why he wants to go into teaching.
However, my gut feeling is (although I agree with some of his reasons) is that he can see all the holidays and seems to think that the teachers would have at least half those holidays to enjoy (after completing their marking and other admin work). !!
geek84 said:
Hi Folks
However, my gut feeling is (although I agree with some of his reasons) is that he can see all the holidays and seems to think that the teachers would have at least half those holidays to enjoy (after completing their marking and other admin work). !!
A common misconception from those who haven't done the job and Daily Mail readers. The other one is teachers coming in at 9 and leaving at 1530.However, my gut feeling is (although I agree with some of his reasons) is that he can see all the holidays and seems to think that the teachers would have at least half those holidays to enjoy (after completing their marking and other admin work). !!
At the college I worked at we often worked through the week long half term holidays to catch up. The only good break I got was in the summer.
And this was more than offset by the hours worked during the rest of the year (minimum 50-60, realistically more like 70-90 hour weeks) and the stress of the job.
I did it for two years and would never do it again. It was the hardest, most stressful job I have ever had for, relatively, the least financial reward.
geek84 said:
Hi Folks
Once again, many thanks for you responses.
My son seems to give reasons such as he likes helping/advising people and organizing things, and that is why he wants to go into teaching.
However, my gut feeling is (although I agree with some of his reasons) is that he can see all the holidays and seems to think that the teachers would have at least half those holidays to enjoy (after completing their marking and other admin work). !!
Plenty of jobs cover helping/advising people and organising stuff. Once again, many thanks for you responses.
My son seems to give reasons such as he likes helping/advising people and organizing things, and that is why he wants to go into teaching.
However, my gut feeling is (although I agree with some of his reasons) is that he can see all the holidays and seems to think that the teachers would have at least half those holidays to enjoy (after completing their marking and other admin work). !!
The holidays is one general misconception. Whilst the holidays are long, teachers do work during these periods and during term time are working brutal hours. A teacher earning £35k full time (this won't be achieved for several years after starting BTW), working 60 hours per week*, will be earning around £11 per hour. The 'rewards' are killed off by the pressures they are under. There are 261 working days in the year, teachers work 185 of those. Therefore, they have around 76 days off per year, not including weekends and bank holidays. Let's assume they work half of the holidays, that means they really have holidays of around 38 days. Now factor in that these holidays are entirely dictated to you, are in periods where holidays away are more expensive and you will be absolutely shattered by this time anyway.
(*)My wife works from 07:30 until 17:30, hardly taking a break. Factor in evening and weekends too, the hours easily exceed 60 hours.
Teachers are very overworked and underpaid. The same obviously applies to those in the police and NHS. The mentality of these people is different to the rest of us, so OP, if your son thinks he fits the required profile and has the dedication and mindset then good luck to him. The test is getting some experience, as someone above suggests. Then, to be sensible, follow the 3-year degree plus 1-year PGCE as I mention before- at least options remain open.
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