Recruitment Agencies - The Finance ones

[HannsG]

I have been searching for at least probably 6 months.

8 years post qual experience, IB and senior finance experience.

I am at a complete loss as to how these outfits make any money?

They would ask me to come in and meet face to face then try and coax more information out of me regarding senior positions or when my director role came up for grabs that I would inform them ASAP.

Not once did I get put forward for a decent role. The big banks and reputable orgs seem to avoid agencies as they have either in house recruiters such as pontoon, resource solutions etc.

For the most part all I met were:

Liars
Wideboys
Tossers
Thick as st

I am so sick of getting cold calls from agents, as an employer, asking "what projects have you got on?", "what sort of staff do you employ?" etc. I would never pass any business on to these idiots, when will they learn to stop calling?

There are a few, and I mean very few who are decent. But honestly as a profession recruitment seems an absolute stty place to be.

I secured all my interviews by applying direct and was offered 3 positions.

None of these roles would have gone to certain agencies.

And why so many for finance? It's like a cottage industry and actually devalues the whole industry and profession.

No matter how many awards events or cricket matches you offer me. I have probably 3 agencies I would rely on to obtain staff.

To represent me? I'd rather do it myself.

All I know is they are definitely feeling the squeeze as budgets are not yet signed off. However I doubt it will pick up like it has for them the past few years.

And if I hear the fking word 'Portal'again I will lose my marbles!!!

Back in the day time was precious and if they called me in they would have at least a few jobs to put me forward for. I am talking 2006 here!

How times change eh?

For those looking for work, stick by your values, know your worth and apply direct and keep knocking on doors.

Rant over

Edited by HannsG on Friday 17th March 07:40

[PH XKR]

HannsG said:

I have been searching for at least probably 6 months.

8 years post qual experience, IB and senior finance experience.

I am at a complete loss as to how these outfits make any money?

They would ask me to come in and meet face to face then try and coax more information out of me regarding senior positions or when my director role came up for grabs that I would inform them ASAP.

Not once did I get put forward for a decent role. The big banks and reputable orgs seem to avoid agencies as they have either in house recruiters such as pontoon, resource solutions etc.

For the most part all I met were:

Liars
Wideboys
Tossers
Thick as st

I am so sick of getting cold calls from agents, as an employer, asking "what projects have you got on?", "what sort of staff do you employ?" etc. I would never pass any business on to these idiots, when will they learn to stop calling?

There are a few, and I mean very few who are decent. But honestly as a profession recruitment seems an absolute stty place to be.

I secured all my interviews by applying direct and was offered 3 positions.

None of these roles would have gone to certain agencies.

And why so many for finance? It's like a cottage industry and actually devalues the whole industry and profession.

No matter how many awards events or cricket matches you offer me. I have probably 3 agencies I would rely on to obtain staff.

To represent me? I'd rather so it myself.

All I know is they are definitely feeling the squeeze as budgets are not yet signed off. However I doubt it will pick up like it has for them the past few years.

And if I hear the fking word 'Portal'again I will lose my marbles!!!

Back in the day time was precious and if they called me in they would have at least a few jobs to put me forward for. I am talking 2006 here!

How times change eh?

For those looking for work, stick by your values, know your worth and apply direct and keep knocking on doors.

Rant over

Edited by HannsG on Thursday 16th March 23:34

As an IB you are already as lowly regarded, if not lower, than an Estate Agent. That said, and lets not forget how you guys just fked up the world only to have your arses wiped by the tax payer, boo fooking hoo. It is the same for every industry, get over yourself. Recruiters are a scum you have to deal with. any longer than 6 months out of work you are taking the piss, if the role to your senior stature aint there, go get a fill in job at B&Q or Uber.

[Boozy]

PH XKR said:

As an IB you are already as lowly regarded, if not lower, than an Estate Agent. That said, and lets not forget how you guys just fked up the world only to have your arses wiped by the tax payer, boo fooking hoo. It is the same for every industry, get over yourself.

Sigh, sage advice right there well done you. I trust for the rest of your life you'll never take a penny of those scum bag investor types or use an Estate Agent to buy a house.

[bad company]

Here we ago again - another recruiters are all useless thread. If so how come it's a £30bn industry ???

I spent 23 as a recruitment business owner. The problem is that the business looks very profitable, which it is and easy, which it isn't from the outside. The result is that any idiot thinks they can do it and make money, most fail and deservedly so.

[HannsG]

PH XKR said:

As an IB you are already as lowly regarded, if not lower, than an Estate Agent. That said, and lets not forget how you guys just fked up the world only to have your arses wiped by the tax payer, boo fooking hoo. It is the same for every industry, get over yourself. Recruiters are a scum you have to deal with. any longer than 6 months out of work you are taking the piss, if the role to your senior stature aint there, go get a fill in job at B&Q or Uber.

I'm utterly bemused by your post.

I'm not a banker. If I was I would not be rolling around in a 100HP Panda for a start!

Don't jump to conclusions, my initial post is all based on facts whilst dealing with the agencies.

Even now, because my old role is up for grabs I am being pestered.

'Have you left?'

'I have such and such position at the moment, what's your current situation?'

Me: 'So where's the spec? Send it through'

Them '.... Oh yeah about that'

Obviously got wind I have secured something and it's funny how they never returned any of my calls beforehand.

I'll continue playing stupid with them. Great fun.

Being on the inside when I needed staff. HR would moan no end about their dealings with them, I would be cold called and taken out for coffees and the like.

It all got a but tiresome in the end.

It's a combination of people looking for work being lazy and the agencies marketing themselves as the holy grail of Job seeking.

I can see why people are applying direct more and more.

[nyt]

HannsG said:

I

Not once did I get put forward for a decent role. The big banks and reputable orgs seem to avoid agencies as they have either in house recruiters such resource solutions etc.

Edited by HannsG on Friday 17th March 07:40

I think that part of the problem is these in-house recruiters. The staff seem to be more secretarial than anything else.
Line managers have to recruit through them but all they do is pass the line manager's notes to recruitment agencies and then skill match when CVs comes back. Often suitable CVs don't even get passed to the line manager because the candidate lists a skill is in a different way than the line manager . In IT that can mean that VC++ on a CV is rejected because the manager asked for Visual C++ [identical]
I have had agents call me (that I've dealt with previously and have my number) and ask why I haven't asked a candidate in for interview when I haven't even seen the CV because it was rejected for the reasons above.

The in-house people don't allow the agent to contact the line manager directly to ask questions which makes selecting the right candidate harder.

Another issue is the in-house people automatically rejecting anyone with a gap in their CV. Not unusual for the better contractors who tend to take a longish holiday when a contract ends.

And, worst of all in my opinion, the in-house people have preferred supplier lists. So an agencies success seems to depend more on doing whatever is necessary to get on that list rather than sourcing good candidates.

Having said that, recruitment companies don't do themselves any favours. Their staff don't seem to make any effort to understand their market. I have had an agent ask me when I was available for viewing after a long discussion. He'd been an estate agent until the week before.

I do know a couple of good agencies. For the most part they are owned by people who had their early careers in the business that they are serving and know what sort of person is required for a job and can intelligently screen candidates accordingly.

[Countdown]

OP - a lot of what you say tallies with my own experience.

However, for senior roles, RAs have the market tied up. It's easier for firms to go directly to them, knowing they have a pool of candidates who have the right skills and are looking to move, rather than paying £5k-£10k for an advert in one of the nationals with no guarantee of appointment.

[FredClogs]

It's not just finance it's the same in real industry for professional skills. It boils down to poor HR depts and corporate businesses wanting to get all costs and overheads off book, I've been into a few companies where they have freelance recruiters from agencies on site for extended periods during high turnover or recruitment periods, that seems to be the best of both worlds. But until corporate HR depts stop being run like a 1am night club ladies powder room not much will change, they don't have the knowledge or skills to recruit talent for job they don't understand and are stupid enough to b blind sided by recruitment consultants who claim they do.

There are some very very good recruitment agencies and individuals out there, there's also a lot of kids just working the phones.

[Henners]

PH XKR said:

As an IB you are already as lowly regarded, if not lower, than an Estate Agent. That said, and lets not forget how you guys just fked up the world only to have your arses wiped by the tax payer, boo fooking hoo. It is the same for every industry, get over yourself. Recruiters are a scum you have to deal with. any longer than 6 months out of work you are taking the piss, if the role to your senior stature aint there, go get a fill in job at B&Q or Uber.

Must be a heavy chip...

[Yex 450]

Countdown said:

However, for senior roles, RAs have the market tied up. It's easier for firms to go directly to them, knowing they have a pool of candidates who have the right skills and are looking to move, rather than paying £5k-£10k for an advert in one of the nationals with no guarantee of appointment.

I can 99% guarantee they don't have the pool of people in place that hiring firms believe. In the past few years when looking to fill roles I have had to use the preferred supplier list at my firm and that has led to a whole world of frustration. The agencies are generally staffed by idiots who are just in a sales job as they believe that it pays well based on what they have heard from their mates who big up themselves in the pub. With 30 years experience in the City I have seen the same faces changes employers on a regular basis as they just cannot meet the sales targets set for them as their resource pool is poor. They just up sticks and move over to another agency and see if they can place anyone they know using a new front. The CV's I have seen are also very poorly matched to the role specification I have sent out and a quick read through them highlights serious errors and inconsistencies that should have been sorted out at the proof reading stage.

In the end I generally go out to contacts in the market and ask around for recommendations and always get a handful of applicants I can at least work with and offer a role to. It has taken a while but my current place no longer relies on the preferred supplier list and allows us to move in our own ways to bring in new staff as we get the applicants we want and save thousands on fees.

When I was out of work for a while the last time I also noticed that I was getting a significant number of calls about the same role from multiple agencies. Clearly the preferred supplier lists are now overlapping so far there is significant competition in the market and as such most agencies have almost no exclusive relationships to work with. In my opinion a clear indicator of how poorly they work and the low level of suitable applicants actually provided.

[Gargamel]

Ah another one of these...

I just don't have the energy anymore. I worked 13 years in agencies and 6 years and counting in house. I have hired over 700 people for my current firm - and used agencies on three of those roles.

The amount of misconception, ignorance and lack of understanding of how recruitment works is staggering.

Yes there is value in information and all agents seek information, a good sales lead, may make a fee.

Find a couple you do like, and stick with them.

[Countdown]

Yex 450 said:

I can 99% guarantee they don't have the pool of people in place that hiring firms believe.

I'm not sure how you can say that? One of the (many) annoying things RAs do when they meet you is ask about EVERYBODY in your team, the reporting structure/lines, email addresses etc etc so they can build up a database of contacts.

So when somebody sends them out a job spec they will know "who" in their database meets the JD/PS and they will contact them to ask if they're interested. It's happened to me and my colleagues. In fact, thinking about it, surely that's the raison d'etre of Recruitment Agencies?

[TIGA84]

Gargamel said:

Ah another one of these...

I just don't have the energy anymore. I worked 13 years in agencies and 6 years and counting in house. I have hired over 700 people for my current firm - and used agencies on three of those roles.

The amount of misconception, ignorance and lack of understanding of how recruitment works is staggering.

Yes there is value in information and all agents seek information, a good sales lead, may make a fee.

Find a couple you do like, and stick with them.

Quite, I think we've had the same careers based on your numbers.

[al1991]

I have had two experiences with recruitment agents.

One I never met or spoke to on the phone. She didn't even forward my CV, someone else did at the firm from their email and signed it off at the bottom as from her. I did the rest of the work, prep, presentation, and took the job.

The other was excellent; very professional, very knowledgable, always phoned before and after interviews to get feedback. Helped on the package negotiation too but for personal reasons I didn't end up taking the job.

So I think that goes some way to explaining why there are some unprofessional people in the industry, it's a numbers game. In my limited experience the rubbish one got the commission cheque and the good one didn't.

[RC1807]

Why is this in "The Lounge" and not in "Jobs and Employment"?

...and it's the agencies that are thick as st

[bad company]

If anyone comes up with anything not already discussed below please let me know:-

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...