Negotiate redundancy pay off?

[hajaba123]

Hi all,

I hope you can help me collect my thoughts and your collective wisdom on this please;

Employed by a large bank for 2 years 6 months

Good performance ratings until q2 of 2016 when personal issues made me ill with depression. I thought I was coping so didn't mention it to work until august 16 when my consultant psychologist and GP signed me off until October.

Occ health report confirmed that I was on top of my illness and fit to return to work, although they advised that my condition was likely to be considered a disability because it had been apparent for more than 12 months and impacted significantly on my daily living activities.

Voluntary redundancy register in November which I didn't sign up for

In January voluntary became compulsory and I was selected. Everyone in the team bar one we're called into the office and we had individual meetings. I was the on,y one to walk out back into the main office with an envelope so it was pretty obvious I was off!

I asked for a copy of my score card which I received a day later, I was marked down for underperformance against sales targets and for two errors that I made just before my breakdown in August. They were confirmed in October as a result of my illness. I was on an improvement plan for my sales, again this was due to my illness as confirmed by my consultant.
I was told that while not officially on garden leave that I could hand over my ongoing cases and spend my time away from the office looking for alternative employment.

In mid Feb I was served my formal notice that I was to be made redundant and asked if I wanted to take this voluntarily or seek internal redeployment. I opted for reydeployment as I will still get the payout if I am not successful.

I declined the opportunity to appeal my selection at this stage as I did not want to sabotage my opportunity of redeployment. They said that if I were to appeal then I should within three weeks.

I'm now at the stage where the end date is getting closer, ninth may, and am wondering if I could negotiate a better payoff than the two months salary that I have been offered?

Does anyone have any experience of this? I feel that I've not been treated fairly and was wondering if the illness, disability may have some bearing or weight with them?

TL,DR
Employed more than two years
Compulsory redundancy coming up
Selection and handling doesn't feel fair
Can I negotiate a bigger pay off and if so how?

Thanks for reading

[rustyuk]

Take the two months and move on.

[kiethton]

not a lawyer but be careful not to burn your bridges/reputation within the industry, especially if sales

Have you had much success looking externally?

[hajaba123]

Reputation within industry is fine, getting quite a few interviews as I have a lot of contacts and good experience.
Happy to move on with the 2 months but if I can easily and fairly painlessly turn it into 3,4,5 or 6 then I'll give it a go

Thanks for your replies 😀

[Robertj21a]

rustyuk said:

Take the two months and move on.

+1

[ozzuk]

Probably a bit late now, you are getting a good payout but I'd also have asked for a good reference, or at least one that only states work period.

[anonymous-user]

hajaba123 said:

H
TL,DR
Employed more than two years
Compulsory redundancy coming up
Selection and handling doesn't feel fair
Can I negotiate a bigger pay off and if so how?

Thanks for reading

You negotiate, by, er, negotiating. Will the negotiation succeed? Who knows? Depends on many variables, including your negotiation skills.

If you are concerned about unfairness, take some insured legal advice to see if you have a legit beef. A legit beef could give you a bargaining counter. If there is a realistic suggestion that your illness amounts (or formerly amounted) to a disability, you may have an additional and potentially strong card to play. PM me and I can recommend a couple of people whom you might consult for advice. Not me - I am bored senseless with employment law.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 6th April 10:39

[Sportidge]

ozzuk said:

Probably a bit late now, you are getting a good payout but I'd also have asked for a good reference, or at least one that only states work period.

I think that many large companies have a generic "They worked here for x years" type of reference now, simply to avoid awkward questions and challenges which might be raised with a "full" reference of performance, etc.

[davek_964]

hajaba123 said:

Reputation within industry is fine, getting quite a few interviews as I have a lot of contacts and good experience.
Happy to move on with the 2 months but if I can easily and fairly painlessly turn it into 3,4,5 or 6 then I'll give it a go

Thanks for your replies ??

I'd take a look at what they could have paid you - 2 months at your normal pay (which will be tax free) is actually pretty generous compared to the statutory minimum.
The fact that you've even suggested six months above is ridiculous - you've only just been there long enough to qualify for redundancy at all.

[Sy1441]

Allowing for mistakes and underperformance wouldn't likely be considered a reasonable adjustment even if you were judged to be covered by the equality act.

[hajaba123]

Update to the thread, great chat with a solicitor on recommendation of BV.
Polite yet firm letter sent, couple of meetings and an extra month negotiated.
New job starts next month.

Thanks all

[Gary C]

Remember they can only make the post redundant not the person.

If they are just getting rid of you and will replace you in that role then that's illegal and you can take them to tribunal for constructive dismissal.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/redundancy/...

Unless they are calling it a compromise agreement, then ask for 12 months salary.

[hajaba123]

supercommuter said:

Can I ask what your notice period was?

12 weeks

[anonymous-user]

Gary C said:

Remember they can only make the post redundant not the person.

If they are just getting rid of you and will replace you in that role then that's illegal and you can take them to tribunal for constructive dismissal.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/redundancy/...

Unless they are calling it a compromise agreement, then ask for 12 months salary.

The post quoted above is almost entirely nonsense. It demonstrates the dangers of garbled relays of half understood concepts .

Of course an employer can make a person redundant. Employers do this all the time. Redundancy is one of the statutory reasons for dismissal that is potentially a fair reason.

There is no constructive dismissal when someone is dismissed by an employer. Constructive dismissal occurs when an employee quits because the employer has repudiated the employment contract.

A dismissal for redundancy could be fair or unfair. If there was no redundancy situation, then a dismissal for redundancy would be unfair. A redundancy could also be unfair for various other reasons

A compromise agreement can include more or less any terms that the parties agree on. There is no assumption of a set period of notice.

[Gary C]

Breadvan72 said:

Gary C said:

Remember they can only make the post redundant not the person.

If they are just getting rid of you and will replace you in that role then that's illegal and you can take them to tribunal for constructive dismissal.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/redundancy/...

Unless they are calling it a compromise agreement, then ask for 12 months salary.

The post quoted above is almost entirely nonsense. It demonstrates the dangers of garbled relays of half understood concepts .

Of course an employer can make a person redundant. Employers do this all the time. Redundancy is one of the statutory reasons for dismissal that is potentially a fair reason.

There is no constructive dismissal when someone is dismissed by an employer. Constructive dismissal occurs when an employee quits because the employer has repudiated the employment contract.

A dismissal for redundancy could be fair or unfair. If there was no redundancy situation, then a dismissal for redundancy would be unfair. A redundancy could also be unfair for various other reasons

A compromise agreement can include more or less any terms that the parties agree on. There is no assumption of a set period of notice.

You can be made redundant if:

the business is failing
the business, or part of it, has stopped operating (often called becoming insolvent or going bust)
your skills are no longer needed
your work is being done by other people, after a reorganisation
the business, or the work you’re doing, moves to another location
the business is taken over by another company
your employer was the sole owner of the business and they die
You can also be made redundant if new technology means your employer needs fewer people to do your job. But you shouldn’t be made redundant if new technology means the same job is done differently.

For example, you can be made redundant if you worked in the train station ticket office and ticket machines are introduced - but you shouldn’t be made redundant just because a new schedule board is introduced.

My wife is an HR professional.

[hajaba123]

Gary C said:

My wife is an HR professional.

I think Breadvan will win this game 😂

[Gary C]

hajaba123 said:

Gary C said:

My wife is an HR professional.

I think Breadvan will win this game ??

Regardless, you can't just get rid of someone you don't want and call it redundancy.

[Gary C]

Or from landau solicitors

Employment law – Redundancy

WHAT IS REDUNDANCY?

Redundancy occurs where:
the employer’s business, or part of the business, has ceased to operate; and/or
the employer’s business has moved to a different place; and/or
the business’s need for work of a particular type to be done has ceased or diminished.
In redundancy situations, it is the role, not the person who is made redundant.

If I didn't quite state it right initially then, for clarity, you can't just get rid of some one and call it redundancy.


Though I should have said unfair rather than constructive.

Edited by Gary C on Monday 12th June 21:01

Edited by Gary C on Monday 12th June 21:03

Edited by Gary C on Monday 12th June 21:04

[anonymous-user]

I have been knocking around the employment law world for thirty odd years and I have never heard of Landau solicitors. They ought to go and read some statutes. If a role becomes redundant, and the person perfoming the role can't be redeployed, then that person will quickly find him or herself redundant. Try telling that person "oh, you haven't been made redundant, only your job has". I reiterate: redundancy is a potentially fair reason for dismissal. Only people get dismissed. Jobs don't get dismissed.

[anonymous-user]

Gary C said:

... you can't just get rid of someone you don't want and call it redundancy.

With that level of naivete, are you perhaps in the market for some magic beans?