Quantity Surveyors - Any of you gone Freelance?
Discussion
Hello all..
Bare with me on this. Basically in quite a predicament.
Brief background/Scenario:
Im 26 years old, with 4.5 years of Quantity Surveying experience under my belt in the groundworks and now highway civild sectors. i joined my current main contractor in October. Longish story short, i quickly realised that it is not what i expected for several reasons, literally no morale in the office what so ever, no structure, little guidance and the whole company is just generally strained yet stale at the same time. Its parent company bought it out of a sticky situation two years ago and the 'merging' of the two companies is just a nightmare and i just don't see me riding it through long term here. i gave it till April time this year and decided to start job hunting. This hunting then stopped as i believed things were gradually getting better. The current set up is myself as QS, a colleague who's 25 also as a QS, and a Senior Freelance QS who works across the parent company and my employer.
I received a phone call from an agency today for a Freelance QS role in the Rail Industry, based not far from where i work now. The daily rate was incredibly hard to ignore at a few hundred per day. This is for a 12 month contract with the contractual agreement that both parties are to give 4 weeks notice to withdraw/leave, and there is a permanent opportunity at the end of the contract should either of us feel appropriate. Coincedentally, the young QS i jus mentioned has just handed his notice in to go to a very similar paid freelance role for a rival Rail Contractor a few miles away! This will only leave the freelance senior QS left at my employer. With this in mind, its suddenly made me a more valuable asset to my employer overnight. I haven't mentioned or approached my directors in anyway, but i did get called in last week for an informal coffee - i felt it was a reassurance conversation that we would have plenty of work on in the next coming months and so forth. One important point to note, is that the director has brought forward my appraisal which is due in September to July - Again i feel this is reassurance for both parties that i don't leave. This is quite a difficult position to be in!
Now the usual questions - 'Will it be right for me?''. Of course i don't expect an answer to this but I'm unsure where to start on this. Im quite amazed how QS's with 'only' a degree and 4 years experience are able to obtain such crazy daily rates given our age as well. I have no issues setting up as a LTD company and getting in line with an accountant my dad uses to help with tax and usual self employment matters, all of which are very new to me and i will have to do some extreme reading up! I think back to my comment above, a QS who's receiving a daily rate such as this offered must be vastly experienced and knowledgeable. I'm not putting myself down, i am skilled, I'm generally good at increasing value and reducing cost/identifying risks, construction knowledge is generally acceptable but I'm by no means an 'expert', i have NEC3 experience, i've managed large value projects. Basically according to the agent i ticked all the boxes and seemed to fall in line with the expectations perfectly. I think its actual anxiety of what the potential employer will expect of me vs what i'm capable of.
Has anyone made the jump? how did you find it? any regrets, will you stay Freelance or would you still consider permanent employment in the future?
i feel being a freelance QS i will be picking up work that others may not want to do, i may not feel as a 'employee/team member' to an extent, and that generally guidance and help when required will not be there because il be expected to know a fair amount myself. Am i over thinking this? is the opportunity too good to be true? thinking further down the line as well I'm unsure on here i would stand given my age and experience after 12 months of freelance work. Also mention above way back, my appraisal has been brought forward by a fair few months in order to ensure i don't jump ship i guess. IF anything was put on the table for me regarding this freelance job, i am potentially throwing away a decent improvement of my package at my current employer and i wont get to find out what their offer is! Other benefits aside, they would not be able to get anywhere near the equivalent of the rates offered on the freelance role (and i wouldn't grab them by the nuts and expect them too either).
my CV has been submitted to the agent who in turn is returning me tomorrow with the confirmation of an interview early next week, which by the sounds of it is very likely.
i welcome all your input good and bad, sorry for the novel!
Irfan
Bare with me on this. Basically in quite a predicament.
Brief background/Scenario:
Im 26 years old, with 4.5 years of Quantity Surveying experience under my belt in the groundworks and now highway civild sectors. i joined my current main contractor in October. Longish story short, i quickly realised that it is not what i expected for several reasons, literally no morale in the office what so ever, no structure, little guidance and the whole company is just generally strained yet stale at the same time. Its parent company bought it out of a sticky situation two years ago and the 'merging' of the two companies is just a nightmare and i just don't see me riding it through long term here. i gave it till April time this year and decided to start job hunting. This hunting then stopped as i believed things were gradually getting better. The current set up is myself as QS, a colleague who's 25 also as a QS, and a Senior Freelance QS who works across the parent company and my employer.
I received a phone call from an agency today for a Freelance QS role in the Rail Industry, based not far from where i work now. The daily rate was incredibly hard to ignore at a few hundred per day. This is for a 12 month contract with the contractual agreement that both parties are to give 4 weeks notice to withdraw/leave, and there is a permanent opportunity at the end of the contract should either of us feel appropriate. Coincedentally, the young QS i jus mentioned has just handed his notice in to go to a very similar paid freelance role for a rival Rail Contractor a few miles away! This will only leave the freelance senior QS left at my employer. With this in mind, its suddenly made me a more valuable asset to my employer overnight. I haven't mentioned or approached my directors in anyway, but i did get called in last week for an informal coffee - i felt it was a reassurance conversation that we would have plenty of work on in the next coming months and so forth. One important point to note, is that the director has brought forward my appraisal which is due in September to July - Again i feel this is reassurance for both parties that i don't leave. This is quite a difficult position to be in!
Now the usual questions - 'Will it be right for me?''. Of course i don't expect an answer to this but I'm unsure where to start on this. Im quite amazed how QS's with 'only' a degree and 4 years experience are able to obtain such crazy daily rates given our age as well. I have no issues setting up as a LTD company and getting in line with an accountant my dad uses to help with tax and usual self employment matters, all of which are very new to me and i will have to do some extreme reading up! I think back to my comment above, a QS who's receiving a daily rate such as this offered must be vastly experienced and knowledgeable. I'm not putting myself down, i am skilled, I'm generally good at increasing value and reducing cost/identifying risks, construction knowledge is generally acceptable but I'm by no means an 'expert', i have NEC3 experience, i've managed large value projects. Basically according to the agent i ticked all the boxes and seemed to fall in line with the expectations perfectly. I think its actual anxiety of what the potential employer will expect of me vs what i'm capable of.
Has anyone made the jump? how did you find it? any regrets, will you stay Freelance or would you still consider permanent employment in the future?
i feel being a freelance QS i will be picking up work that others may not want to do, i may not feel as a 'employee/team member' to an extent, and that generally guidance and help when required will not be there because il be expected to know a fair amount myself. Am i over thinking this? is the opportunity too good to be true? thinking further down the line as well I'm unsure on here i would stand given my age and experience after 12 months of freelance work. Also mention above way back, my appraisal has been brought forward by a fair few months in order to ensure i don't jump ship i guess. IF anything was put on the table for me regarding this freelance job, i am potentially throwing away a decent improvement of my package at my current employer and i wont get to find out what their offer is! Other benefits aside, they would not be able to get anywhere near the equivalent of the rates offered on the freelance role (and i wouldn't grab them by the nuts and expect them too either).
my CV has been submitted to the agent who in turn is returning me tomorrow with the confirmation of an interview early next week, which by the sounds of it is very likely.
i welcome all your input good and bad, sorry for the novel!
Irfan
Edited by irfan1712 on Tuesday 13th June 23:40
If you're not happy where you are go for it. Gaining experience is what it's about, the only thing you may miss potentially is mentoring for a senior QS. I've worked freelance off and on for a few years and I quite enjoy the fact that you're not a company person and you can walk away whenever you want. We not in recession there is other jobs out there if that doesn't work out. I was told be a recruitment chap the other day firms in the North West want perm not contract at the moment, but that'll change in a couple of months.
Definitely get your own Ltd company though.
Definitely get your own Ltd company though.
irfan1712 said:
Hello all..
Bare with me on this. Basically in quite a predicament.
Brief background/Scenario:
Im 26 years old, with 4.5 years of Quantity Surveying experience under my belt in the groundworks and now highway civild sectors. i joined my current main contractor in October. Longish story short, i quickly realised that it is not what i expected for several reasons, literally no morale in the office what so ever, no structure, little guidance and the whole company is just generally strained yet stale at the same time. Its parent company bought it out of a sticky situation two years ago and the 'merging' of the two companies is just a nightmare and i just don't see me riding it through long term here. i gave it till April time this year and decided to start job hunting. This hunting then stopped as i believed things were gradually getting better. The current set up is myself as QS, a colleague who's 25 also as a QS, and a Senior Freelance QS who works across the parent company and my employer.
I received a phone call from an agency today for a Freelance QS role in the Rail Industry, based not far from where i work now. The daily rate was incredibly hard to ignore at a few hundred per day. This is for a 12 month contract with the contractual agreement that both parties are to give 4 weeks notice to withdraw/leave, and there is a permanent opportunity at the end of the contract should either of us feel appropriate. Coincedentally, the young QS i jus mentioned has just handed his notice in to go to a very similar paid freelance role for a rival Rail Contractor a few miles away! This will only leave the freelance senior QS left at my employer. With this in mind, its suddenly made me a more valuable asset to my employer overnight. I haven't mentioned or approached my directors in anyway, but i did get called in last week for an informal coffee - i felt it was a reassurance conversation that we would have plenty of work on in the next coming months and so forth. One important point to note, is that the director has brought forward my appraisal which is due in September to July - Again i feel this is reassurance for both parties that i don't leave. This is quite a difficult position to be in!
Now the usual questions - 'Will it be right for me?''. Of course i don't expect an answer to this but I'm unsure where to start on this. Im quite amazed how QS's with 'only' a degree and 4 years experience are able to obtain such crazy daily rates given our age as well. I have no issues setting up as a LTD company and getting in line with an accountant my dad uses to help with tax and usual self employment matters, all of which are very new to me and i will have to do some extreme reading up! I think back to my comment above, a QS who's receiving a daily rate such as this offered must be vastly experienced and knowledgeable. I'm not putting myself down, i am skilled, I'm generally good at increasing value and reducing cost/identifying risks, construction knowledge is generally acceptable but I'm by no means an 'expert', i have NEC3 experience, i've managed large value projects. Basically according to the agent i ticked all the boxes and seemed to fall in line with the expectations perfectly. I think its actual anxiety of what the potential employer will expect of me vs what i'm capable of.
Has anyone made the jump? how did you find it? any regrets, will you stay Freelance or would you still consider permanent employment in the future?
i feel being a freelance QS i will be picking up work that others may not want to do, i may not feel as a 'employee/team member' to an extent, and that generally guidance and help when required will not be there because il be expected to know a fair amount myself. Am i over thinking this? is the opportunity too good to be true? thinking further down the line as well I'm unsure on here i would stand given my age and experience after 12 months of freelance work. Also mention above way back, my appraisal has been brought forward by a fair few months in order to ensure i don't jump ship i guess. IF anything was put on the table for me regarding this freelance job, i am potentially throwing away a decent improvement of my package at my current employer and i wont get to find out what their offer is! Other benefits aside, they would not be able to get anywhere near the equivalent of the rates offered on the freelance role (and i wouldn't grab them by the nuts and expect them too either).
my CV has been submitted to the agent who in turn is returning me tomorrow with the confirmation of an interview early next week, which by the sounds of it is very likely.
i welcome all your input good and bad, sorry for the novel!
Irfan
Be weary of this (which you have already noted) and dont necessarily believe what agencies are telling you. Only you know what skill level you have and its best not to put yourself down, but whenever I have taken them on or spoken to employers who take on people on day rate, we/they absolutely want to make sure they are getting a hell of days work out of them and ideally want someone who can work on their own with less guidance than perhaps someone else directly employed. I wouldnt want to be haing to mentor/guide someone i was paying on a day rate so you will likely lose this which you may have currently. Usually for us specifically its for a role we just want to push to someone short term and be involved as minimally as possible - get on with it basically.Bare with me on this. Basically in quite a predicament.
Brief background/Scenario:
Im 26 years old, with 4.5 years of Quantity Surveying experience under my belt in the groundworks and now highway civild sectors. i joined my current main contractor in October. Longish story short, i quickly realised that it is not what i expected for several reasons, literally no morale in the office what so ever, no structure, little guidance and the whole company is just generally strained yet stale at the same time. Its parent company bought it out of a sticky situation two years ago and the 'merging' of the two companies is just a nightmare and i just don't see me riding it through long term here. i gave it till April time this year and decided to start job hunting. This hunting then stopped as i believed things were gradually getting better. The current set up is myself as QS, a colleague who's 25 also as a QS, and a Senior Freelance QS who works across the parent company and my employer.
I received a phone call from an agency today for a Freelance QS role in the Rail Industry, based not far from where i work now. The daily rate was incredibly hard to ignore at a few hundred per day. This is for a 12 month contract with the contractual agreement that both parties are to give 4 weeks notice to withdraw/leave, and there is a permanent opportunity at the end of the contract should either of us feel appropriate. Coincedentally, the young QS i jus mentioned has just handed his notice in to go to a very similar paid freelance role for a rival Rail Contractor a few miles away! This will only leave the freelance senior QS left at my employer. With this in mind, its suddenly made me a more valuable asset to my employer overnight. I haven't mentioned or approached my directors in anyway, but i did get called in last week for an informal coffee - i felt it was a reassurance conversation that we would have plenty of work on in the next coming months and so forth. One important point to note, is that the director has brought forward my appraisal which is due in September to July - Again i feel this is reassurance for both parties that i don't leave. This is quite a difficult position to be in!
Now the usual questions - 'Will it be right for me?''. Of course i don't expect an answer to this but I'm unsure where to start on this. Im quite amazed how QS's with 'only' a degree and 4 years experience are able to obtain such crazy daily rates given our age as well. I have no issues setting up as a LTD company and getting in line with an accountant my dad uses to help with tax and usual self employment matters, all of which are very new to me and i will have to do some extreme reading up! I think back to my comment above, a QS who's receiving a daily rate such as this offered must be vastly experienced and knowledgeable. I'm not putting myself down, i am skilled, I'm generally good at increasing value and reducing cost/identifying risks, construction knowledge is generally acceptable but I'm by no means an 'expert', i have NEC3 experience, i've managed large value projects. Basically according to the agent i ticked all the boxes and seemed to fall in line with the expectations perfectly. I think its actual anxiety of what the potential employer will expect of me vs what i'm capable of.
Has anyone made the jump? how did you find it? any regrets, will you stay Freelance or would you still consider permanent employment in the future?
i feel being a freelance QS i will be picking up work that others may not want to do, i may not feel as a 'employee/team member' to an extent, and that generally guidance and help when required will not be there because il be expected to know a fair amount myself. Am i over thinking this? is the opportunity too good to be true? thinking further down the line as well I'm unsure on here i would stand given my age and experience after 12 months of freelance work. Also mention above way back, my appraisal has been brought forward by a fair few months in order to ensure i don't jump ship i guess. IF anything was put on the table for me regarding this freelance job, i am potentially throwing away a decent improvement of my package at my current employer and i wont get to find out what their offer is! Other benefits aside, they would not be able to get anywhere near the equivalent of the rates offered on the freelance role (and i wouldn't grab them by the nuts and expect them too either).
my CV has been submitted to the agent who in turn is returning me tomorrow with the confirmation of an interview early next week, which by the sounds of it is very likely.
i welcome all your input good and bad, sorry for the novel!
Irfan
Edited by irfan1712 on Tuesday 13th June 23:40
Personally, with 4.5 years of experience, I would stick PAYE for a little while longer (and if you can leverage the person leaving to get more responsibilities etc all good). I wouldnt say I wouldnt employ someone with that many years experience but I would be wary as to taking on someone on freelance with reletively little experience and they would have to ace the interview. If you are after say £300+ per day, you may find it difficult to convince someone you will be up to it experience wise.
I am a currently a freelancing QS who came from a background working for a large main contractor. I worked for the main contractor for 5 years whilst studying part time on a day release programme at university, then had about 3yrs after this in a couple of smaller contractor/ specialist sub contractor companies, then after a company going bust on me- the first role I found after that was freelance......
now 5 years on I am still freelancing! would I go back perm??? I would never say never, but at the moment I am making more than I ever thougth possible as a QS, being wise with my money, and making plans to be as self sufficient in the medium term as to not have to rely on going back to PAYE job......
how confident are you in your skills?? as a freelance QS you are hired help, you are expected to come in and get going on a project. do you always need your managers help in doing stuff? are you happy in your skillset if dealt a tricky problem? do you think you can offer more value to a project than you are costing? are you happy at aged 26 you will potentially not be offered any more formal training and any development you make will be off your own back? have you though about becoming chartered? who will mentor you through that? are you happy that you might never really get to pick 'the perfect job' and may have to just take whats offered?
now dont get me wrong, the money is a huge draw into the freelance world. but, you cannot rely on the cash lasting forever. Be honest with yourself- are you good at managing your money?? are you going to be scrabbling around every quarter trying to pay your VAT bill? are you going to be sensible enough to put cash aside for your corporation tax bill that wont be payable for possible 9 months after you file your year end? will you remember to pay you NI bill as and when required? can you afford any time on the bench waiting on the next contract?
i'm not saying dont go for it- but be honest with yourself, are you confident enough to go for it?
now 5 years on I am still freelancing! would I go back perm??? I would never say never, but at the moment I am making more than I ever thougth possible as a QS, being wise with my money, and making plans to be as self sufficient in the medium term as to not have to rely on going back to PAYE job......
how confident are you in your skills?? as a freelance QS you are hired help, you are expected to come in and get going on a project. do you always need your managers help in doing stuff? are you happy in your skillset if dealt a tricky problem? do you think you can offer more value to a project than you are costing? are you happy at aged 26 you will potentially not be offered any more formal training and any development you make will be off your own back? have you though about becoming chartered? who will mentor you through that? are you happy that you might never really get to pick 'the perfect job' and may have to just take whats offered?
now dont get me wrong, the money is a huge draw into the freelance world. but, you cannot rely on the cash lasting forever. Be honest with yourself- are you good at managing your money?? are you going to be scrabbling around every quarter trying to pay your VAT bill? are you going to be sensible enough to put cash aside for your corporation tax bill that wont be payable for possible 9 months after you file your year end? will you remember to pay you NI bill as and when required? can you afford any time on the bench waiting on the next contract?
i'm not saying dont go for it- but be honest with yourself, are you confident enough to go for it?
Not a QS, but a planner in the same industry. I had 11years at staff, then 2 as freelance and last year went back to perm for a particular project. Otherwise I would have stayed freelance for sure.
I think you have been given a lot of good advice, but I will offer a few thoughts:
- Is your location suitable for freelancing - i.e. are there lots of opportunities and a pipeline of future work. And/Or,
- Are you willing to travel? Likely to average more miles than a staff role.
- Where are you at with training and experience? A staff role will nearly always offer more training and development.
- Do you have someone to help you with the business side - e.g. an accountant friend who will work for beer money?
- Are you looking for career progression? IF you want to become a commercial manager staying staff would likely get you there more quickly.
-How is your work network? Do you have contacts and expect you can keep the work coming in continuously?
Overall I would say go for it. However be wary of the first offer - make sure it's not an empty offer or a recruiter farming for cv's.
I think you have been given a lot of good advice, but I will offer a few thoughts:
- Is your location suitable for freelancing - i.e. are there lots of opportunities and a pipeline of future work. And/Or,
- Are you willing to travel? Likely to average more miles than a staff role.
- Where are you at with training and experience? A staff role will nearly always offer more training and development.
- Do you have someone to help you with the business side - e.g. an accountant friend who will work for beer money?
- Are you looking for career progression? IF you want to become a commercial manager staying staff would likely get you there more quickly.
-How is your work network? Do you have contacts and expect you can keep the work coming in continuously?
Overall I would say go for it. However be wary of the first offer - make sure it's not an empty offer or a recruiter farming for cv's.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff