Approaching the competition...
Discussion
Hi all,
I am after some advice about approaching my companies biggest competitor for a job. They do not advertise jobs or have a career section on their website, but I work in quite a niche industry and have 6 years experience and relevant qualifications. Although the industries we focus on are the same, our products do not 100% overlap and I could provide a lot of knowledge to expand their product range - assuming they wanted to!
I have checked my contract and I do not have any terms of non-compete but what I am querying is the best way to get in touch.
I have met both the MD and Ops Director before however I would not say I know them well so that if I called them they wouldn't immediately know who I am by name, I assume. I am connected to them on LinkedIn and have their email contact details.
What I am concerned about is it getting back to my current employer if it doesn't go anywhere, as I say the industry is niche and when it comes to the directors everybody knows everybody.
Has anyone done this before? Any advice on how to or how not to approach them would be good.
Thanks,
I am after some advice about approaching my companies biggest competitor for a job. They do not advertise jobs or have a career section on their website, but I work in quite a niche industry and have 6 years experience and relevant qualifications. Although the industries we focus on are the same, our products do not 100% overlap and I could provide a lot of knowledge to expand their product range - assuming they wanted to!
I have checked my contract and I do not have any terms of non-compete but what I am querying is the best way to get in touch.
I have met both the MD and Ops Director before however I would not say I know them well so that if I called them they wouldn't immediately know who I am by name, I assume. I am connected to them on LinkedIn and have their email contact details.
What I am concerned about is it getting back to my current employer if it doesn't go anywhere, as I say the industry is niche and when it comes to the directors everybody knows everybody.
Has anyone done this before? Any advice on how to or how not to approach them would be good.
Thanks,
Be careful about offering the competition some knowledge or information which you don't own, whether or not there's a non-compete.
True story:
A chap called a competitor of his employer and said "I've got lots of customer data you can have if you give me a job."
Competitor says "OK, come and see us"
Chap goes for a meeting with the MD of the competitor, and details all the information he has, and what salary package he expects.
MD then says "Actually, I'm not the MD of this company, I'm the HR Director of yours. The MD of this company called me when he heard what you were up to. Oh, and you're sacked."
True story:
A chap called a competitor of his employer and said "I've got lots of customer data you can have if you give me a job."
Competitor says "OK, come and see us"
Chap goes for a meeting with the MD of the competitor, and details all the information he has, and what salary package he expects.
MD then says "Actually, I'm not the MD of this company, I'm the HR Director of yours. The MD of this company called me when he heard what you were up to. Oh, and you're sacked."
Thanks - i'm not the kind of person who would "take" knowledge from my current employer. I would use the experience I have gained to help develop systems/products in the new place.
For example we use software here to setup some of our devices, this software would be very useful to the new company and I could easily stick it on a USB stick and take it with me, but I won't out of respect for my current employer who has treated me well for the last 6 years.
I just see a better future for me at company number 2... possibly a poor choice of phrase!
For example we use software here to setup some of our devices, this software would be very useful to the new company and I could easily stick it on a USB stick and take it with me, but I won't out of respect for my current employer who has treated me well for the last 6 years.
I just see a better future for me at company number 2... possibly a poor choice of phrase!
cps13 said:
Hi all,
I am after some advice about approaching my companies biggest competitor for a job. They do not advertise jobs or have a career section on their website, but I work in quite a niche industry and have 6 years experience and relevant qualifications. Although the industries we focus on are the same, our products do not 100% overlap and I could provide a lot of knowledge to expand their product range - assuming they wanted to!
I have checked my contract and I do not have any terms of non-compete but what I am querying is the best way to get in touch.
I have met both the MD and Ops Director before however I would not say I know them well so that if I called them they wouldn't immediately know who I am by name, I assume. I am connected to them on LinkedIn and have their email contact details.
What I am concerned about is it getting back to my current employer if it doesn't go anywhere, as I say the industry is niche and when it comes to the directors everybody knows everybody.
Has anyone done this before? Any advice on how to or how not to approach them would be good.
Thanks,
Tread very, very carefully is my advice. If I were the competitor I'd invite you in for a chat, pump you for info and then have nothing whatsoever to do with you.I am after some advice about approaching my companies biggest competitor for a job. They do not advertise jobs or have a career section on their website, but I work in quite a niche industry and have 6 years experience and relevant qualifications. Although the industries we focus on are the same, our products do not 100% overlap and I could provide a lot of knowledge to expand their product range - assuming they wanted to!
I have checked my contract and I do not have any terms of non-compete but what I am querying is the best way to get in touch.
I have met both the MD and Ops Director before however I would not say I know them well so that if I called them they wouldn't immediately know who I am by name, I assume. I am connected to them on LinkedIn and have their email contact details.
What I am concerned about is it getting back to my current employer if it doesn't go anywhere, as I say the industry is niche and when it comes to the directors everybody knows everybody.
Has anyone done this before? Any advice on how to or how not to approach them would be good.
Thanks,
I'd wait till a trade show, have a chat with their MD/ Ops director, show and interest in their product, give them a business card. If you don't get a call, they aren't interested and you've not exposed yourself.
Contact the MD of the competitor company directly. LinkedIn would work well for you if you think he will not remember your name. This way he can check your profile and it may jog his memory. Just let them know you are looking for opportunities and and would like to work for them.
Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
Pickled Piper said:
Contact the MD of the competitor company directly. LinkedIn would work well for you if you think he will not remember your name. This way he can check your profile and it may jog his memory. Just let them know you are looking for opportunities and and would like to work for them.
Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
Oh there is. It's a really bad idea.Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
If the competitor company isn't interested, the MD may pick up the phone to the chap's current MD and tip him off. I've seen it happen a number of times. Competitor MDs often know each other and whilst they compete they also collude.
He needs to be more subtle, and encourage the competitor company to make the approach if they are interested.
Doofus said:
True story:
A chap called a competitor of his employer and said "I've got lots of customer data you can have if you give me a job."
Competitor says "OK, come and see us"
Chap goes for a meeting with the MD of the competitor, and details all the information he has, and what salary package he expects.
MD then says "Actually, I'm not the MD of this company, I'm the HR Director of yours. The MD of this company called me when he heard what you were up to. Oh, and you're sacked."
Guy must have been a complete moron then, who would go and share any information with another company unless you at least had the offer in your pocket,easy to have meetings with prospective employees where nothing is shared yet people still feel each other out,competitor had a lucky escape.A chap called a competitor of his employer and said "I've got lots of customer data you can have if you give me a job."
Competitor says "OK, come and see us"
Chap goes for a meeting with the MD of the competitor, and details all the information he has, and what salary package he expects.
MD then says "Actually, I'm not the MD of this company, I'm the HR Director of yours. The MD of this company called me when he heard what you were up to. Oh, and you're sacked."
So said:
Pickled Piper said:
Contact the MD of the competitor company directly. LinkedIn would work well for you if you think he will not remember your name. This way he can check your profile and it may jog his memory. Just let them know you are looking for opportunities and and would like to work for them.
Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
Oh there is. It's a really bad idea.Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
If the competitor company isn't interested, the MD may pick up the phone to the chap's current MD and tip him off. I've seen it happen a number of times. Competitor MDs often know each other and whilst they compete they also collude.
He needs to be more subtle, and encourage the competitor company to make the approach if they are interested.
People change jobs all the time. I think most of us have better things to do than ring up the boss of the competition to let her/him know someone is trying to jump ship.
Breadvan72 said:
Your appraisal of the situation appears to be based entirely on practicality rather than on any idea of business ethics. If there had been a firm job offer, would that have made it OK in your eyes for the employee to blurt to Company A information confidential to Company B?
You have misinterpreted my post, when the new employee has a firm job offer and is leaving to join a competitor what else would anybody expect other than he is going to take his knowledge of company A and its customers to company B. I was pointing out that it is entirely possible to have meetings with prospective employers in the same market without sharing knowledge,if you honestly believe that people don't recruit from competitors purely for competitor knowledge or customer lists you are being very naive.
I have misinterpreted nothing. You appear to regard information theft as normal and appear to have no qualms about it.
Naive? I am very much aware that what you describe with such cheery approval does indeed happen, but you are naive if you think that it always happens without consequences. I am so naive that I have co-written a book on the subject, and spend quite a lot of my working time obtaining injunctions against people who display the same breezy lack of business ethics that you appear to display. Doing what you may regard as unexceptional can end up costing a person an exceptionally large amount of money and hassle.
Naive? I am very much aware that what you describe with such cheery approval does indeed happen, but you are naive if you think that it always happens without consequences. I am so naive that I have co-written a book on the subject, and spend quite a lot of my working time obtaining injunctions against people who display the same breezy lack of business ethics that you appear to display. Doing what you may regard as unexceptional can end up costing a person an exceptionally large amount of money and hassle.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 8th August 07:02
What you chose to class as information theft happens everyday in business, in the vast majority of instances with no consequences, thousands of people move between competitor companies every year.
Your opinion is based on what you see in your world, I base my opinion on what I see in my commercial world, right or wrong it happens, it is up to the employer how he deals with it either before or after the employee leaves.
Your opinion is based on what you see in your world, I base my opinion on what I see in my commercial world, right or wrong it happens, it is up to the employer how he deals with it either before or after the employee leaves.
You have not mentioned why you want to leave?
Have you spoken to your own company about the future career path development and also don't be fearful to talk market rate (if that's the reason your getting itchy feet).
I might be wrong but from reading the original post I get the impression your expecting a nice uplift and would be in high demand.
In small niche industries headhunting is what tends to happen (actually that's certainly not limited to niche) so given you have not been approached might give you an indication.
Whatever you do don't say you have useful info etc. They might love the idea however all employers want reliable honest loyal staff - so if your willing to do that to your current employer why wouldn't you do that to them (that would put a bit of a red flag to me / make me think your desperate to leave - might be on a Performance impremvoment plan or up for some disciplinary which evidently only has one outcome. ).
Be smart
Don't take the piss
Don't do anything fraudulent
(Concerning you've read your contract re info sharing with competitors....)
Grass very often looks greener.
Talk to your own company - for whatever reason they might have the view you have no interest in progression/upward mobility instead you are great at what you do.
Have you spoken to your own company about the future career path development and also don't be fearful to talk market rate (if that's the reason your getting itchy feet).
I might be wrong but from reading the original post I get the impression your expecting a nice uplift and would be in high demand.
In small niche industries headhunting is what tends to happen (actually that's certainly not limited to niche) so given you have not been approached might give you an indication.
Whatever you do don't say you have useful info etc. They might love the idea however all employers want reliable honest loyal staff - so if your willing to do that to your current employer why wouldn't you do that to them (that would put a bit of a red flag to me / make me think your desperate to leave - might be on a Performance impremvoment plan or up for some disciplinary which evidently only has one outcome. ).
Be smart
Don't take the piss
Don't do anything fraudulent
(Concerning you've read your contract re info sharing with competitors....)
Grass very often looks greener.
Talk to your own company - for whatever reason they might have the view you have no interest in progression/upward mobility instead you are great at what you do.
berlintaxi said:
What you chose to class as information theft happens everyday in business, in the vast majority of instances with no consequences, thousands of people move between competitor companies every year.
Your opinion is based on what you see in your world, I base my opinion on what I see in my commercial world, right or wrong it happens, it is up to the employer how he deals with it either before or after the employee leaves.
Yes, I must be imagining all those books filled with cases in which employees act as you recommend and end up with large legal bills in consequence. Just last Friday I was waiting to see the vacation Judge and every case ahead of me in the list was an employee competition case, as was mine. So plainly everyone does it and no one ever gets caught. Your opinion is based on what you see in your world, I base my opinion on what I see in my commercial world, right or wrong it happens, it is up to the employer how he deals with it either before or after the employee leaves.
By the way, it's not what I class as information theft; it's what the law thinks about the subject that matters. You apparently think that the law doesn't apply to you, and maybe you live a charmed life and it doesn't. Not all are so charmed.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 8th August 07:13
Breadvan72 said:
berlintaxi said:
What you chose to class as information theft happens everyday in business, in the vast majority of instances with no consequences, thousands of people move between competitor companies every year.
Your opinion is based on what you see in your world, I base my opinion on what I see in my commercial world, right or wrong it happens, it is up to the employer how he deals with it either before or after the employee leaves.
Yes, I must be imagining all those books filled with cases in which employees act as you recommend and end up with large legal bills in consequence. Just last Friday I was waiting to see the vacation Judge and every case ahead of me in the list was an employee competition case, as was mine. So plainly everyone does it and no one ever gets caught. Your opinion is based on what you see in your world, I base my opinion on what I see in my commercial world, right or wrong it happens, it is up to the employer how he deals with it either before or after the employee leaves.
By the way, it's not what I class as information theft; it's what the law thinks about the subject that matters. You apparently think that the law doesn't apply to you, and maybe you live a charmed life and it doesn't. Not all are so charmed.
As ever it comes down to what is in the contract of employment and restraint of trade clauses (if enforceable)however to believe companies don't recruit staff for the knowledge and contacts they can bring is as I said naive.
Edited by berlintaxi on Tuesday 8th August 07:44
limpsfield said:
So said:
Pickled Piper said:
Contact the MD of the competitor company directly. LinkedIn would work well for you if you think he will not remember your name. This way he can check your profile and it may jog his memory. Just let them know you are looking for opportunities and and would like to work for them.
Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
Oh there is. It's a really bad idea.Nothing wrong with a direct and honest approach.
If the competitor company isn't interested, the MD may pick up the phone to the chap's current MD and tip him off. I've seen it happen a number of times. Competitor MDs often know each other and whilst they compete they also collude.
He needs to be more subtle, and encourage the competitor company to make the approach if they are interested.
People change jobs all the time. I think most of us have better things to do than ring up the boss of the competition to let her/him know someone is trying to jump ship.
Welshbeef said:
(Concerning you've read your contract re info sharing with competitors....)
I read my contract to check I don't have a non-compete clause, not that it explicitly says I cannot share information, that bit is a given. The reason I want to leave is the wife and I want to try and relocate to the US for a few years, I didn't think there was an option to do it in my current company. I spoke to my boss and told him my plans and it turned out there is an option to do it here after all, so I will not be approaching anyone for the time being. As long as the current plans develop into reality.
Thanks all for your comments, I do agree with most. Never go into an interview blurting trade secrets, but never accept a job expecting the competition not to ask you for some information when you get there.
We had a chap who worked for us, he handed his notice in, stated that he was 'retiring'. (He was of retirement age).
The MD has worked with/been friends with the guy for 20+ years & had no reason not to believe him.
Once he'd handed his notice in on the Friday, it became apparent (after some very minor Googling), that our closest (geographically) competitor had a job role advertised, for a role very similar to his within their company, they had also Tweeted (the day he'd handed his notice into us), that they were looking forward to a new employee starting soon, (again all very coincidental).
Anyway, he was swiftly put on gardening leave, emails blocked/online access blocked, as it had appeared that very same day he'd been trying to log into all of his recent quotes on the quoting system.
Anyway, he was called into the office on the Monday morning, he knew the game was up as he'd come in a bit early & had started emptying his desk drawers & was furiously printing stuff off.
He was paid his notice & asked to leave the premises via the side door immediately, being reminded that he was not to contact any of our customers.
It transpired he'd subsequently tried to contact our customers & suppliers (suppliers off their own back said they would not deal with him, nor the new company he worked for, due to their business practices), he was also sent a polite but firm warming from our MD of his obligations not approach our customers, to which he ignored, he was then sent a second warning letter from our solicitors which took effect.
So in essence, yes companies will 'go legal' to protect themselves from dis-honest employees & in small industries where rivals know about each other it's best to not 'see if the grass is greener', unless you can guarantee you won't be compromised.
The MD has worked with/been friends with the guy for 20+ years & had no reason not to believe him.
Once he'd handed his notice in on the Friday, it became apparent (after some very minor Googling), that our closest (geographically) competitor had a job role advertised, for a role very similar to his within their company, they had also Tweeted (the day he'd handed his notice into us), that they were looking forward to a new employee starting soon, (again all very coincidental).
Anyway, he was swiftly put on gardening leave, emails blocked/online access blocked, as it had appeared that very same day he'd been trying to log into all of his recent quotes on the quoting system.
Anyway, he was called into the office on the Monday morning, he knew the game was up as he'd come in a bit early & had started emptying his desk drawers & was furiously printing stuff off.
He was paid his notice & asked to leave the premises via the side door immediately, being reminded that he was not to contact any of our customers.
It transpired he'd subsequently tried to contact our customers & suppliers (suppliers off their own back said they would not deal with him, nor the new company he worked for, due to their business practices), he was also sent a polite but firm warming from our MD of his obligations not approach our customers, to which he ignored, he was then sent a second warning letter from our solicitors which took effect.
So in essence, yes companies will 'go legal' to protect themselves from dis-honest employees & in small industries where rivals know about each other it's best to not 'see if the grass is greener', unless you can guarantee you won't be compromised.
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