"Stagnating" in Mech Engineering job after uni - any advice?
Discussion
Background, went back to university at 24, graduated at 28 from a top 10 uni with a 1st class MEng in Mechanical.
Have worked for 2 years as an engineer, within testing at an automotive OEM, via "contract"/agency. I'm starting to realise there isn't really any scope to progress past my current level here long term (to say, Senior Engineer and so on).
For example, there's been a few excellent and motivated people just in my time here who've joined before me but now left who did the exact same role as agency/contract for 6 years hoping to get either a perm job or progress somehow but it never happened.
I am trying to avoid being in that position myself a couple of years down the road by doing something now!
I am considering discussing this informally with the (technically not mine) manager here, but I am struggling to with how to put it to him. He is a very approachable person so that is not the problem, it's more how I actually address what he/we can do about it, if anything?
My other options seem to be
1. Try join a grad scheme (either in Engineering or Finance, although I am knocking on a bit and whilst I have a 1st in degree, my A-levels are ABC and some of the schemes exclude on things like that). Timing is an issue with this too as they're only open once a year and if you miss that year you're humped until the next!
2. Finding another permanent job in engineering that somehow puts my past experience to some use. However although I'm working in mechanical I'm not sure how much my two years experience would transfer into Rail/Building Services/etc or any other area, if at all.
3. Find another contract - I see a few mentions of Mechanical Engineering contract roles on the forum, can anyone advise what skills I'd need to move into these in the longer term? I'm happy to invest time and money learning new skills if they can help long term.
I could move to another role doing a similar thing fairly easily but I'm not sure if that would help anything.
4. Stay in current role, and arrange some sort of plan with manager here to take on stuff and try develop more, I think this is unlikely really but worth a try. IR35 isn't an issue but I don't have access to the same training as permanent staff.
I am open to any suggestions, I just need something more to work towards than the current role, even though it's an excellent group of people to work with it is getting a bit stagnant and I feel I'm not progressing at all any more.
Have worked for 2 years as an engineer, within testing at an automotive OEM, via "contract"/agency. I'm starting to realise there isn't really any scope to progress past my current level here long term (to say, Senior Engineer and so on).
For example, there's been a few excellent and motivated people just in my time here who've joined before me but now left who did the exact same role as agency/contract for 6 years hoping to get either a perm job or progress somehow but it never happened.
I am trying to avoid being in that position myself a couple of years down the road by doing something now!
I am considering discussing this informally with the (technically not mine) manager here, but I am struggling to with how to put it to him. He is a very approachable person so that is not the problem, it's more how I actually address what he/we can do about it, if anything?
My other options seem to be
1. Try join a grad scheme (either in Engineering or Finance, although I am knocking on a bit and whilst I have a 1st in degree, my A-levels are ABC and some of the schemes exclude on things like that). Timing is an issue with this too as they're only open once a year and if you miss that year you're humped until the next!
2. Finding another permanent job in engineering that somehow puts my past experience to some use. However although I'm working in mechanical I'm not sure how much my two years experience would transfer into Rail/Building Services/etc or any other area, if at all.
3. Find another contract - I see a few mentions of Mechanical Engineering contract roles on the forum, can anyone advise what skills I'd need to move into these in the longer term? I'm happy to invest time and money learning new skills if they can help long term.
I could move to another role doing a similar thing fairly easily but I'm not sure if that would help anything.
4. Stay in current role, and arrange some sort of plan with manager here to take on stuff and try develop more, I think this is unlikely really but worth a try. IR35 isn't an issue but I don't have access to the same training as permanent staff.
I am open to any suggestions, I just need something more to work towards than the current role, even though it's an excellent group of people to work with it is getting a bit stagnant and I feel I'm not progressing at all any more.
Edited by mh9000 on Monday 7th August 11:53
Edited by mh9000 on Monday 7th August 12:22
I have my HNC in Mech Eng.
Saw a vacancy for a competitor for a Graduate Structural Engineer. I'm not a graduate, nor a structural engineer, yet still got the position.
If you can tailor/re-word your current experiences and outline how they can help in a new role, more often than not you still have a good chance. If anything, it sets you apart somewhat from other applicants.
Part of the problem here does sound like your current employer however. Lack of room/want for people to progress will always see people walk.
Saw a vacancy for a competitor for a Graduate Structural Engineer. I'm not a graduate, nor a structural engineer, yet still got the position.
If you can tailor/re-word your current experiences and outline how they can help in a new role, more often than not you still have a good chance. If anything, it sets you apart somewhat from other applicants.
Part of the problem here does sound like your current employer however. Lack of room/want for people to progress will always see people walk.
Unfortunately this is the flip side to contracting. The organisation's basic premise for contracting is to get skills in to deliver some work. Unfortunately, as the person resource you don't figure in the company's longer term plan. For an experienced person with a decent career behind them they may be less fussy on progression and development. Potentially they will also have a wider range of opportunities available as they have more experience.
You need to broaden your skills and experience. You can do it with another contract but you will find yourself in the same place. If you stay at the same level or doing the same thing for too long you will find it harder and harder to get a permanent opportunity with development opportunities. For those types of roles a company will want to see potential (ie look at the academic track record) or some track record of progress (ie they can invest in you as you have shown that you can deliver and progress).
You need to broaden your skills and experience. You can do it with another contract but you will find yourself in the same place. If you stay at the same level or doing the same thing for too long you will find it harder and harder to get a permanent opportunity with development opportunities. For those types of roles a company will want to see potential (ie look at the academic track record) or some track record of progress (ie they can invest in you as you have shown that you can deliver and progress).
rog007 said:
What do you really want to be when you grow up?
Might seem flippant but I've not picked up any enthusiasm for your current profession.
If you do really want to be an engineer; what sort and doing what for whom?
Are you hands on or do you want to lead others?
Rog, appreciate the honesty, I understand it may come across that way but I think my recent experience/thinking after speaking with a few recruiters has dampened my enthusiasm and outlook a bit. The employers seem to want a lot of low level contractors which is great at first, as for someone who lacks experience anything is good, but long term you realise there is no future regardless of performance.Might seem flippant but I've not picked up any enthusiasm for your current profession.
If you do really want to be an engineer; what sort and doing what for whom?
Are you hands on or do you want to lead others?
I can't answer what sort exactly, because I'm interested in several areas. I've only worked in automotive, but building services, energy, aero and rail appeal to me too. I prefer "technical hands-on" stuff like designing, commissioning/testing, analysis. I think leading others would come after getting more experience in the area.
I'd be prepared to take a pay cut for better development but looking through vacancies online it's hard to tell the good grad schemes from the mediocre ones, and it seems like I would have wasted the past two years if I go and join a grad scheme. Yet I can't see how I can translate my experience into a non-grad role either.
Another issue is some of the "contractors" I work with now for example had joined and left some of the big engineering grad schemes because they were not what was made out to be. This makes me consider forgetting engineering altogether and keeping it as hobby, funded by working in something else.
Edited by mh9000 on Wednesday 9th August 13:17
I’m sorry to say I can well understand this sort of thing happening. I am guessing here that the company concerned makes the best 4x4xfar, and these past few years have been rather keen to employ young/fresh grad types on contract and give them all sorts of work to do.
They get a keen grad that will (probably?) do what they are told, and are, compared to older hand contractors, rather cheap. They also get to fire you at very short notice, not pay you holiday, sickness, and write off any thoughts about your training budget/opportunities.
You get a bit more money than a permie. What you don’t get is holiday, pension, sickness, training, and the chance that a job won’t be there for you next Monday.
For a first job out of uni, becoming a contractor really isn’t the done thing. I know of some (just 2) that made it work, but very broadly speaking, contracting in engineering usually starts when you are in 30’s and have 10 years under your belt.
My advice is as follows:-
Get out of the automotive industry; I hear more bad than good about it. I’m sure others will tell you how great it is though. That’s down to you make that judgement call.
Say goodbye to a contract position for the next 5 years and get some real experience of doing wide ranging activities. On balance, this is best done in a smaller company than a big one.
Try not to be a jack of all trades, and try not to be a master of one. I know that statement defeats logic on first reading. Companies like specialisms, but if you pick the wrong one, then you wither on the vine. This could be the wrong CAD system, I have used 5 CAD systems that are now dead, and 3 FEA systems that no longer exist. It is sometimes just down to luck.
As you’ve seen, building services is BIG just now, and a fair amount of it is data centre HVAC support. An ex work colleague is now doing exactly this.
Nuclear is busy and will be for as long as your career will last. You must like documentation and safety cases though….
Defence is busy IN THE SOUTH EAST. my inbox is full of contract positions, many paying well over £40/hr. I can think of many employers looking for good people right now, OK they might not be local to where you are …
IMHO, rail is for rail people, which logically makes it difficult for anyone else to get into. It’s now a reasonably well paid area of engineering after decades of not paying much at all.
If you want to stay in engineering and judging by your degree subject matter you probably do, then there are lots of opportunities out there.
Let’s say you stay in engineering, As Rog007 has put it, you need to sit down and have a good think about what it actually is that you want to do. If you stay in it, is it CAD? analysis? development? commissioning? production? are you a people person? Can you genuinely project manage? All sorts of stuff to think about.
PM me if you want…
They get a keen grad that will (probably?) do what they are told, and are, compared to older hand contractors, rather cheap. They also get to fire you at very short notice, not pay you holiday, sickness, and write off any thoughts about your training budget/opportunities.
You get a bit more money than a permie. What you don’t get is holiday, pension, sickness, training, and the chance that a job won’t be there for you next Monday.
For a first job out of uni, becoming a contractor really isn’t the done thing. I know of some (just 2) that made it work, but very broadly speaking, contracting in engineering usually starts when you are in 30’s and have 10 years under your belt.
My advice is as follows:-
Get out of the automotive industry; I hear more bad than good about it. I’m sure others will tell you how great it is though. That’s down to you make that judgement call.
Say goodbye to a contract position for the next 5 years and get some real experience of doing wide ranging activities. On balance, this is best done in a smaller company than a big one.
Try not to be a jack of all trades, and try not to be a master of one. I know that statement defeats logic on first reading. Companies like specialisms, but if you pick the wrong one, then you wither on the vine. This could be the wrong CAD system, I have used 5 CAD systems that are now dead, and 3 FEA systems that no longer exist. It is sometimes just down to luck.
As you’ve seen, building services is BIG just now, and a fair amount of it is data centre HVAC support. An ex work colleague is now doing exactly this.
Nuclear is busy and will be for as long as your career will last. You must like documentation and safety cases though….
Defence is busy IN THE SOUTH EAST. my inbox is full of contract positions, many paying well over £40/hr. I can think of many employers looking for good people right now, OK they might not be local to where you are …
IMHO, rail is for rail people, which logically makes it difficult for anyone else to get into. It’s now a reasonably well paid area of engineering after decades of not paying much at all.
If you want to stay in engineering and judging by your degree subject matter you probably do, then there are lots of opportunities out there.
Let’s say you stay in engineering, As Rog007 has put it, you need to sit down and have a good think about what it actually is that you want to do. If you stay in it, is it CAD? analysis? development? commissioning? production? are you a people person? Can you genuinely project manage? All sorts of stuff to think about.
PM me if you want…
Contract is contract. You are there to do a job, you can be gone in a week and they are not paying you to progress your career, they are paying you to do an item of work. If the work stays the same for 5 years, that's not the problem of the people paying you.
Just get another contract at a slightly higher level. Or go permanent, but personally I prefer contract. IMHO contract does not become limiting in engineering until you have 15 or 20 years experience. At that point you find that it tends more to be people who have been staff employees for a long time who are engineering manager or project director.
Just get another contract at a slightly higher level. Or go permanent, but personally I prefer contract. IMHO contract does not become limiting in engineering until you have 15 or 20 years experience. At that point you find that it tends more to be people who have been staff employees for a long time who are engineering manager or project director.
Very grateful for all the replies and PMs, I've been having a think about this.
@Creampuff, agreed, however in my case it wasn't that I had years of experience and chose to be a contractor as such, I'd just graduated and needed a job, as it happened this was working as a ltd co contractor as it worked out better than umbrella.
If I could get another even lower rate contract in a different area (like design/analysis) I would do that, but I'm in something of a niche (think similar to Calibration testing) and that's my only experience apart from having a 1st degree (for what that's worth)
I feel I've made the wrong choice and rapidly running out of time, (now early 30's and 2 years experience in a niche area I'm not too keen on long term). The silver lining is I don't have any family or mortage commitments so I would be willing to take a lower salary for a few years if the prospects were there, and can relocate.
@Creampuff, agreed, however in my case it wasn't that I had years of experience and chose to be a contractor as such, I'd just graduated and needed a job, as it happened this was working as a ltd co contractor as it worked out better than umbrella.
If I could get another even lower rate contract in a different area (like design/analysis) I would do that, but I'm in something of a niche (think similar to Calibration testing) and that's my only experience apart from having a 1st degree (for what that's worth)
I feel I've made the wrong choice and rapidly running out of time, (now early 30's and 2 years experience in a niche area I'm not too keen on long term). The silver lining is I don't have any family or mortage commitments so I would be willing to take a lower salary for a few years if the prospects were there, and can relocate.
mh9000 said:
I am considering discussing this informally with the (technically not mine) manager here, but I am struggling to with how to put it to him. He is a very approachable person so that is not the problem, it's more how I actually address what he/we can do about it, if anything?
Hi. Do you have permanent jobs, as I don't see my long term future working via a contract/agency and I am keen to progress in my career?What's the worst that can happen?
My first post (Hi everyone) after a period of lurking. Thought I'd add my 'bit' to the discussion
I think, primarily, you need to decide if you want a job or a career.. as one of the other posters said. Most 'subbies' have a decent permie background to draw upon, which recruiters like (reduces risk to them if you've a track record)
Having spent 25 years at BAe in structural test, I escaped in 2002 & have worked for Airbus (5+ years) & Spirit Aero (6+ years) plus other places on shorter contracts & am now at MoD
Get impression that contractor rates in Auto are lower than Aero. However Aero is quiet at the moment (I know of experienced Stress/FE guys kicking their heels)- Really needs Airbus to embark on complete new platform. One company that is recruiting is Cobham (was Flight Refuelling) in Wimborne - worked there for 6 months in 2016, but the 280 mile drive to work was too much..
Do talk to your line manager.. In my experience they will be willing to listen & will welcome your interest. Failing that, talk to big recruiters such as Morsons, who cover all areas & make sure your CV is on Jobsite & regularly updated to reflect current situation (updating also causes it to rise up the pile the recruiters see)
If you decide to leave current role, do so on good terms.. you never know when you might be asked (or need) to return.
I think, primarily, you need to decide if you want a job or a career.. as one of the other posters said. Most 'subbies' have a decent permie background to draw upon, which recruiters like (reduces risk to them if you've a track record)
Having spent 25 years at BAe in structural test, I escaped in 2002 & have worked for Airbus (5+ years) & Spirit Aero (6+ years) plus other places on shorter contracts & am now at MoD
Get impression that contractor rates in Auto are lower than Aero. However Aero is quiet at the moment (I know of experienced Stress/FE guys kicking their heels)- Really needs Airbus to embark on complete new platform. One company that is recruiting is Cobham (was Flight Refuelling) in Wimborne - worked there for 6 months in 2016, but the 280 mile drive to work was too much..
Do talk to your line manager.. In my experience they will be willing to listen & will welcome your interest. Failing that, talk to big recruiters such as Morsons, who cover all areas & make sure your CV is on Jobsite & regularly updated to reflect current situation (updating also causes it to rise up the pile the recruiters see)
If you decide to leave current role, do so on good terms.. you never know when you might be asked (or need) to return.
you could quite easily get a job in another engineering field, the laws of physics mostly don't change between them :P
For example I know the nuclear sector are crying out for mechanical engineers, most company's are taking on people without any direct experience due to the shortage.
The pay, whilst not contract levels I doubt, are very good and mostly better than other sectors.
For example I know the nuclear sector are crying out for mechanical engineers, most company's are taking on people without any direct experience due to the shortage.
The pay, whilst not contract levels I doubt, are very good and mostly better than other sectors.
I would heartily recommend the nuclear industry for people who:
don't enjoy seeing things through to completion
enjoy projects being cancelled after many years
don't like to make decisions
love 'design' by committee
love paperwork as an end in itself and ever-increasing bureaucracy
don't like to use modern methods or good practice
love re-working documents up to potentially infinite revisions
have a very high boredom threshold
don't enjoy seeing things through to completion
enjoy projects being cancelled after many years
don't like to make decisions
love 'design' by committee
love paperwork as an end in itself and ever-increasing bureaucracy
don't like to use modern methods or good practice
love re-working documents up to potentially infinite revisions
have a very high boredom threshold
MC Bodge said:
I would heartily recommend the nuclear industry for people who:
don't enjoy seeing things through to completion
enjoy projects being cancelled after many years
don't like to make decisions
love 'design' by committee
love paperwork as an end in itself and ever-increasing bureaucracy
don't like to use modern methods or good practice
love re-working documents up to potentially infinite revisions
have a very high boredom threshold
I am sorry to say , there is much truth in this....don't enjoy seeing things through to completion
enjoy projects being cancelled after many years
don't like to make decisions
love 'design' by committee
love paperwork as an end in itself and ever-increasing bureaucracy
don't like to use modern methods or good practice
love re-working documents up to potentially infinite revisions
have a very high boredom threshold
I’m in a nearly nuclear position at the moment, we have design substantiation, (calcs) reports, paperwork, standards, regulations, you name it, coming out of our ears…
Good design? – not really
Clear and concise knowledge of geometric tolerances? – What’s that?
Timely delivery of information/projects? – Sorry mate!
Pays well though
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