Procurement Manager - Salary?
Discussion
What sort of salary would a "reasonably experienced" procurement manager be on?
We're looking at somebody who knows how to prepare ITTs, advise staff on correct evaluation processes, knows about OJEU rules, experience of dealing with Crown Commercial Services, probably MCIPS qualified.
Apologies if this is a "how long is a piece of string" question...
We're looking at somebody who knows how to prepare ITTs, advise staff on correct evaluation processes, knows about OJEU rules, experience of dealing with Crown Commercial Services, probably MCIPS qualified.
Apologies if this is a "how long is a piece of string" question...
Countdown said:
What sort of salary would a "reasonably experienced" procurement manager be on?
We're looking at somebody who knows how to prepare ITTs, advise staff on correct evaluation processes, knows about OJEU rules, experience of dealing with Crown Commercial Services, probably MCIPS qualified.
Apologies if this is a "how long is a piece of string" question...
For the NHSWe're looking at somebody who knows how to prepare ITTs, advise staff on correct evaluation processes, knows about OJEU rules, experience of dealing with Crown Commercial Services, probably MCIPS qualified.
Apologies if this is a "how long is a piece of string" question...
Most are Band 7's. A few have though sneaked into 8a's.
The good old agenda for change bought in so all staff should be on the same Band depending on job just hasn't work. Most trusts though in their cost cutting are downgrading jobs as people leave even though the job is still the same.
I have seen though Band 6's and Band 5's expected to do the above.
Summary anything from £28k to £42k depending on Trust.
Don't suppose your advertising a job in the midlands ?
Edited by Downward on Friday 11th August 15:18
Hi this is very much my area of the market.
Really does depend, what you are describing is very much an admin process role, so not sure why you need an MCIPS, who will like be bored.
What is the amount of Spend that the person will be accountable for, is the target to reduce input costs - if so by how much (%) YOY
Will they have a team etc
A decent MCIPS manager for an SME in Home counties is around £45,000 to £55,000 - but spend size, complexity, rate of innovation, cost reduction targets , team size and desire to "change" all add something to the wage cost...
Really does depend, what you are describing is very much an admin process role, so not sure why you need an MCIPS, who will like be bored.
What is the amount of Spend that the person will be accountable for, is the target to reduce input costs - if so by how much (%) YOY
Will they have a team etc
A decent MCIPS manager for an SME in Home counties is around £45,000 to £55,000 - but spend size, complexity, rate of innovation, cost reduction targets , team size and desire to "change" all add something to the wage cost...
Countdown said:
What sort of salary would a "reasonably experienced" procurement manager be on?
We're looking at somebody who knows how to prepare ITTs, advise staff on correct evaluation processes, knows about OJEU rules, experience of dealing with Crown Commercial Services, probably MCIPS qualified.
Apologies if this is a "how long is a piece of string" question...
I work in procurement. A "Procurement Manager" is a vague term and can mean anything. However, what you've omitted is more of interest: negotiation skills, stakeholder management, strategy creation, cost reduction management, experienced in the RFP/tender process, contract management and basic drafting, and so on. Industry specific knowledge is also important e.g. IT procurement person should have a reasonable knowledge of the tech industry and contract specific clauses you'd expectWe're looking at somebody who knows how to prepare ITTs, advise staff on correct evaluation processes, knows about OJEU rules, experience of dealing with Crown Commercial Services, probably MCIPS qualified.
Apologies if this is a "how long is a piece of string" question...
I'd expect a procurement manager to do these things. The things you've listed sound transactional in nature. As above poster said, why would an MCIPS qualified person accept this type of role?
CIPS itself is a bit overrated. Recruiters like it to get noticed, but it's very much a padded out course that could be delivered in 1/3 of the material and time. Experience is everything and size of projects matters.
Edited by silent ninja on Friday 11th August 18:40
Thanks for all the comments - lots to think about 
Gargamel said:
Hi this is very much my area of the market.
Really does depend, what you are describing is very much an admin process role, so not sure why you need an MCIPS, who will like be bored.
Very good point. The role will be mainly admin in nature. The "requirements" and "tender evaluation" will be done by operational staff. We mainly need somebody who can hold their hand, make sure all the boxes are ticked and that we're compliant with internal and external policies. e.g. explain to them things like "All Tenders need to be opened by 2 people".Really does depend, what you are describing is very much an admin process role, so not sure why you need an MCIPS, who will like be bored.
Gargamel said:
What is the amount of Spend that the person will be accountable for, is the target to reduce input costs - if so by how much (%) YOY
Spend will be circa £5m a year. There is a target for cost reduction but that is on front-line staff, not this role. [Basically they need to deliver efficiency savings of X% on their bottom line. How they do that is up to them].Gargamel said:
Will they have a team etc
. Nope. very much a standalone role, reporting to the Deputy FD.Gargamel said:
A decent MCIPS manager for an SME in Home counties is around £45,000 to £55,000 - but spend size, complexity, rate of innovation, cost reduction targets , team size and desire to "change" all add something to the wage cost...
Thanks. I'm hoping that, as we're up north, I can get somebody at the lower end of that band.silent ninja said:
I work in procurement. A "Procurement Manager" is a vague term and can mean anything. However, what you've omitted is more of interest: negotiation skills, stakeholder management, strategy creation, cost reduction management, experienced in the RFP/tender process, contract management and basic drafting, and so on. Industry specific knowledge is also important e.g. IT procurement person should have a reasonable knowledge of the tech industry and contract specific clauses you'd expect
I'd expect a procurement manager to do these things. The things you've listed sound transactional in nature. As above poster said, why would an MCIPS qualified person accept this type of role?
CIPS itself is a bit overrated. Recruiters like it to get noticed, but it's very much a padded out course that could be delivered in 1/3 of the material and time. Experience is everything and size of projects matters.
I take your point about CIPS. My assumption (perhaps incorrect) was that, to get somebody with the right level of experience they would be professionally qualified. For example, I wouldn't employ an Accountant at that salary if they weren't CCAB qualified.I'd expect a procurement manager to do these things. The things you've listed sound transactional in nature. As above poster said, why would an MCIPS qualified person accept this type of role?
CIPS itself is a bit overrated. Recruiters like it to get noticed, but it's very much a padded out course that could be delivered in 1/3 of the material and time. Experience is everything and size of projects matters.
As mentioned in my previous reply it's really more of a handholding / guidance/advice/support role than getting involved in negotiations or having targets. They'll be working with budget holders to agree the spec, send out the ITTs, collate them, set up evaluation meetings, issue the award notices, and deal with any contract management issues. "Transactional" is a very apt description.
Gargamel said:
For that describes I'd hire an old school Rottweiler PA and pay them C£30,000
I'm not sure if a PA would have sufficient experience of things like OJEU for example.E.g I need somebody who can explain to budget holders about setting clear evaluation criteria, stuff that is as "objective" as it can be, so that the evaluation and awarding process is as defensible as possible . That's why (afaics) a normal admin person won't be up to the job.
I appreciate that MCIPS might be overkill but it does need t be somebody wth a decent amount of experience with the process of awarding high value tenders.
Countdown said:
silent ninja said:
I work in procurement. A "Procurement Manager" is a vague term and can mean anything. However, what you've omitted is more of interest: negotiation skills, stakeholder management, strategy creation, cost reduction management, experienced in the RFP/tender process, contract management and basic drafting, and so on. Industry specific knowledge is also important e.g. IT procurement person should have a reasonable knowledge of the tech industry and contract specific clauses you'd expect
I'd expect a procurement manager to do these things. The things you've listed sound transactional in nature. As above poster said, why would an MCIPS qualified person accept this type of role?
CIPS itself is a bit overrated. Recruiters like it to get noticed, but it's very much a padded out course that could be delivered in 1/3 of the material and time. Experience is everything and size of projects matters.
I take your point about CIPS. My assumption (perhaps incorrect) was that, to get somebody with the right level of experience they would be professionally qualified. For example, I wouldn't employ an Accountant at that salary if they weren't CCAB qualified.I'd expect a procurement manager to do these things. The things you've listed sound transactional in nature. As above poster said, why would an MCIPS qualified person accept this type of role?
CIPS itself is a bit overrated. Recruiters like it to get noticed, but it's very much a padded out course that could be delivered in 1/3 of the material and time. Experience is everything and size of projects matters.
As mentioned in my previous reply it's really more of a handholding / guidance/advice/support role than getting involved in negotiations or having targets. They'll be working with budget holders to agree the spec, send out the ITTs, collate them, set up evaluation meetings, issue the award notices, and deal with any contract management issues. "Transactional" is a very apt description.
Why wouldn't you be prepared to train someone up to learn the OJEU and compliance side of things? I must admit, I've never worked in the public sector and i certainly don't know the European tender process. It would widen your pool.
10 years experience, MCIPS, high value, high complexity contracts, £55k + package and bonus.
When I was looking the amount of jobs £30-50k and the expectations of the employers was well above and beyond the offered package, pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Better to offer £5-10k more and get the best of the best; I am recruiting a SRM currently to manage two high value suppliers, 10y+ experience, strong character, knowledge of the aero industry, MSc or equivalent, I will offer €80k + package (but tax is high in DE).
Also hiring a junior / entry position and it'll be €55-65k.
When I was looking the amount of jobs £30-50k and the expectations of the employers was well above and beyond the offered package, pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Better to offer £5-10k more and get the best of the best; I am recruiting a SRM currently to manage two high value suppliers, 10y+ experience, strong character, knowledge of the aero industry, MSc or equivalent, I will offer €80k + package (but tax is high in DE).
Also hiring a junior / entry position and it'll be €55-65k.
Trexthedinosaur said:
10 years experience, MCIPS, high value, high complexity contracts, £55k + package and bonus.
When I was looking the amount of jobs £30-50k and the expectations of the employers was well above and beyond the offered package, pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Better to offer £5-10k more and get the best of the best; I am recruiting a SRM currently to manage two high value suppliers, 10y+ experience, strong character, knowledge of the aero industry, MSc or equivalent, I will offer €80k + package (but tax is high in DE).
Also hiring a junior / entry position and it'll be €55-65k.
Great, but this is a University, with a £5m spend, line are making the decisions and this is an admin exercise to make sure process is followed. It is not clear the role even needs to save money or just follow due process. When I was looking the amount of jobs £30-50k and the expectations of the employers was well above and beyond the offered package, pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Better to offer £5-10k more and get the best of the best; I am recruiting a SRM currently to manage two high value suppliers, 10y+ experience, strong character, knowledge of the aero industry, MSc or equivalent, I will offer €80k + package (but tax is high in DE).
Also hiring a junior / entry position and it'll be €55-65k.
I refer you above, hire a competent admin, with a great attitude and train the them on the how to.
Engineering in Germany and in the aero sector pays handsomely compared to England. I've had oversight of 2 Aero engineering 3 businesses in England, Germany and U.S., all part of the same group business but it is abundantly clear German salary packages are much more.
It is unfair to compare on a straight exchange rate basis as this often misses out the nuances of living costs, taxation and social security deductions. But generally all technical disciplines as paid more in Germany compared to here.
It is unfair to compare on a straight exchange rate basis as this often misses out the nuances of living costs, taxation and social security deductions. But generally all technical disciplines as paid more in Germany compared to here.
Gargamel said:
Trexthedinosaur said:
10 years experience, MCIPS, high value, high complexity contracts, £55k + package and bonus.
When I was looking the amount of jobs £30-50k and the expectations of the employers was well above and beyond the offered package, pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Better to offer £5-10k more and get the best of the best; I am recruiting a SRM currently to manage two high value suppliers, 10y+ experience, strong character, knowledge of the aero industry, MSc or equivalent, I will offer €80k + package (but tax is high in DE).
Also hiring a junior / entry position and it'll be €55-65k.
Great, but this is a University, with a £5m spend, line are making the decisions and this is an admin exercise to make sure process is followed. It is not clear the role even needs to save money or just follow due process. When I was looking the amount of jobs £30-50k and the expectations of the employers was well above and beyond the offered package, pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Better to offer £5-10k more and get the best of the best; I am recruiting a SRM currently to manage two high value suppliers, 10y+ experience, strong character, knowledge of the aero industry, MSc or equivalent, I will offer €80k + package (but tax is high in DE).
Also hiring a junior / entry position and it'll be €55-65k.
I refer you above, hire a competent admin, with a great attitude and train the them on the how to.
It is not a question of setting out to save money, but to ensure what is spent has to be spent.
Gargamel said:
Great, but this is a University, with a £5m spend, line are making the decisions and this is an admin exercise to make sure process is followed. It is not clear the role even needs to save money or just follow due process.
I refer you above, hire a competent admin, with a great attitude and train the them on the how to.
Spot on.I refer you above, hire a competent admin, with a great attitude and train the them on the how to.
I think you may be right about admin. The problem I have is, for the salary band this post falls into, they need a "relevant professional qualification" which is why we thought MCIPS may be the most appropriate....
It's going out for advert in a couple of weeks so we'll see how it goes.
Trexthedinosaur said:
That's not what the OP says ... you can hire an admin who will follow the process and question nothing; then you will get bent over by each and every supplier as they laugh at the additional T+Cs they add to the contract or certain surcharges, extras, etc; I refer you to the above, pay peanuts get monkeys.
It is not a question of setting out to save money, but to ensure what is spent has to be spent.
It's not generally going to be "that" kind of procurement. Much of the procurement will be one - off contracts , usually from framework agreements, supporting budget holders in drawing up tender specs and tender evaluation. The actual award will be decided by budget holders, as will ongoing contract management. Any tricky issues will go to Legal (who will have reviewed the contract award paperwork before it is awarded anyway).It is not a question of setting out to save money, but to ensure what is spent has to be spent.
MCIPS is overkill. The role you describe doesn't match an MCIPS candidate and they will simply think that you don't know what you're talking about. This is an admin role. MCIPS candidates won't apply, admin candidates will think they're under qualified and won't apply. You'll get few responses in my opinion. CIPS Diploma maybe, but even people that have that would want to do actual sourcing.
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