Voluntary Redundancy
Discussion
Ph,
I've put myself forward for voluntary redundancy at my work, following announcement of some cuts last week. I have another job lined up, and due to the nature of the industry and the current workplace, they're very likely to find out I have another role ready. I'm concerned that I'll be declined the voluntary package as they know I'm likely to walk anyway.
Are there any laws around this? Do they need to state why it's been declined for specific reasons?
The situation is that there are currently 11 people performing my role / job title, being reduced to 7.
I've put myself forward for voluntary redundancy at my work, following announcement of some cuts last week. I have another job lined up, and due to the nature of the industry and the current workplace, they're very likely to find out I have another role ready. I'm concerned that I'll be declined the voluntary package as they know I'm likely to walk anyway.
Are there any laws around this? Do they need to state why it's been declined for specific reasons?
The situation is that there are currently 11 people performing my role / job title, being reduced to 7.
I'm not sure I follow Dave.
It's cheaper for them to reject mine as they're offering an enhanced voluntary package and in my case they know they'd be receiving a resignation. It's unlikely they'll receive the 4 voluntary redundancies they need to complete the cuts so will be making compulsory redundacies anyway.
It's cheaper for them to reject mine as they're offering an enhanced voluntary package and in my case they know they'd be receiving a resignation. It's unlikely they'll receive the 4 voluntary redundancies they need to complete the cuts so will be making compulsory redundacies anyway.
Sorry should have provided further info..
The consultation began on the 20th. In total around 90 employees will be released; 10 from my department; 4 from my specific role.
They will let me know by the 3rd of April if they've accepted my VR or not, but I've heard a rumour that they're not accepting it so I'd like to be prepared for what to do in that scenario.
The consultation began on the 20th. In total around 90 employees will be released; 10 from my department; 4 from my specific role.
They will let me know by the 3rd of April if they've accepted my VR or not, but I've heard a rumour that they're not accepting it so I'd like to be prepared for what to do in that scenario.
Speaking from experience, if they think / believe you are off then they will just hope you go in order to save on a redundancy payment and will not accept your voluntary resignation.
Perhaps if you frame for VR offer on 'feeling a bit burnt out' or some such reason they might consider... if you appear over keen then it will be as above.
drab1 said:
That's what I mean - are they legally allowed to reject voluntary redundancy and then make the exact same roles redundant on a compulsory basis? That seems illogical to me
If they don't have enough applicants the Union would be asking why they didn't pick you.Did they say when the consultation started what criteria they would use in the case of Voluntary or Compulsory redundancy?
Did they make the offer to everybody or a specific group?
In general, they’ll offer voluntary specifically to target a group they wouldn’t otherwise be able to target with a normal redundancy process.
All that said, voluntary is subject to the company’s acceptance, which is at their discretion.
The normal process will have a set of criteria for selection which must stand up to scrutiny.
I dont think voluntary follows any of those rules, so I’m afraid you can’t really challenge their decision in the same way.
If they think you’re going to leave anyway, they may not approve your request. I’d hope a decent company of any size wouldn’t be as petty as that, though, unless the margins are very fine on company survival based on this process.
In general, they’ll offer voluntary specifically to target a group they wouldn’t otherwise be able to target with a normal redundancy process.
All that said, voluntary is subject to the company’s acceptance, which is at their discretion.
The normal process will have a set of criteria for selection which must stand up to scrutiny.
I dont think voluntary follows any of those rules, so I’m afraid you can’t really challenge their decision in the same way.
If they think you’re going to leave anyway, they may not approve your request. I’d hope a decent company of any size wouldn’t be as petty as that, though, unless the margins are very fine on company survival based on this process.
yajeed said:
All that said, voluntary is subject to the company’s acceptance, which is at their discretion.
The normal process will have a set of criteria for selection which must stand up to scrutiny.
I dont think voluntary follows any of those rules, so I’m afraid you can’t really challenge their decision in the same way.
Yes, the key point in under the "voluntary" scheme, employers can do as they wish in terms of selecting applicants. Under the "compulsory" scheme, there are rules to follow.The normal process will have a set of criteria for selection which must stand up to scrutiny.
I dont think voluntary follows any of those rules, so I’m afraid you can’t really challenge their decision in the same way.
MYOB said:
Yes, the key point in under the "voluntary" scheme, employers can do as they wish in terms of selecting applicants. Under the "compulsory" scheme, there are rules to follow.
Under compulsory as you call it an employer can still effectively choose whoever they want. The employer chooses the criteria, the scoring and the weighting. It can be adjusted to suit whatever outcome it wants if so desired. The criteria has to be fairly applied, and reasonable.
For example, they couldn’t use ‘first in first out’ and add exceptions to tailor the outcome to be materially different from that to cater for exceptions they’d like to make.
Anyway, in this case it doesn’t really matter - the OP can’t really challenge their selection of the voluntary applicants.
For example, they couldn’t use ‘first in first out’ and add exceptions to tailor the outcome to be materially different from that to cater for exceptions they’d like to make.
Anyway, in this case it doesn’t really matter - the OP can’t really challenge their selection of the voluntary applicants.
I don't understand how they can reject mine and make someone else redundant, as this seems to circumvent the selection procedure.
For example, if I applied for it and they rejected it, and I then elected to stay in my position while someone else was made redundant, surely they would have to justify that? I don't see how they can.
There's only 2 ways I can see which we're objectively valued. One is how much we're paid; and the other is our annual scorecards. Salary wise I can demonstrate that I'm among the lowest paid for my position, and can also demonstrate that some equivalents have received bonuses in the last 2 years while I haven't. I can also demonstrate that scorecard wise I am not performing particularly highly over the same period.
For example, if I applied for it and they rejected it, and I then elected to stay in my position while someone else was made redundant, surely they would have to justify that? I don't see how they can.
There's only 2 ways I can see which we're objectively valued. One is how much we're paid; and the other is our annual scorecards. Salary wise I can demonstrate that I'm among the lowest paid for my position, and can also demonstrate that some equivalents have received bonuses in the last 2 years while I haven't. I can also demonstrate that scorecard wise I am not performing particularly highly over the same period.
How much are we talking here?
Just talk number of weeks or months under the VR.
Generally as a company you want rid of the dross during a redundancy period - avoiding the drawn out performance managed out of the business. Oddly you have highlighted that you have not hit a bonus for a number of years vs your peers - that could be chance orthey are better.
It might be an exercise to simply drop the average value for salaries and they are happy to lose the good higher paid staff (!!????)
Just talk number of weeks or months under the VR.
Generally as a company you want rid of the dross during a redundancy period - avoiding the drawn out performance managed out of the business. Oddly you have highlighted that you have not hit a bonus for a number of years vs your peers - that could be chance orthey are better.
It might be an exercise to simply drop the average value for salaries and they are happy to lose the good higher paid staff (!!????)
Not a huge value; I've only been there 4 years.
I'm in an unusual situation in that I'm probably the highest performing person in that role but I'm paid the least (I was last in during a downturn and never ask for more money) and have always proposed fairly low / middling performances on scorecards as I couldn't care less about them.
I'm in an unusual situation in that I'm probably the highest performing person in that role but I'm paid the least (I was last in during a downturn and never ask for more money) and have always proposed fairly low / middling performances on scorecards as I couldn't care less about them.
drab1 said:
Not a huge value; I've only been there 4 years.
I'm in an unusual situation in that I'm probably the highest performing person in that role but I'm paid the least (I was last in during a downturn and never ask for more money) and have always proposed fairly low / middling performances on scorecards as I couldn't care less about them.
I'll say it again.. why don't you delay the start date for 3 months?I'm in an unusual situation in that I'm probably the highest performing person in that role but I'm paid the least (I was last in during a downturn and never ask for more money) and have always proposed fairly low / middling performances on scorecards as I couldn't care less about them.
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