Long contract notice period
Discussion
I've been a contractor for most of the last 20 years in the offshore energy industry. Due to the oil price being down the toilet, I'm taking what I can get.
All the contract jobs I've had in the history of my working life, have been 1-week notice period on both parties (edit: I did have one senior expat job overseas which was a month notice, but this made sense for everyone due to the nature of that particular job).
My current job is coming to an end and I've managed to get another job. Contract just landed on my desk. It's setting off a few alarm bells already.
Notice period on my part is 8 weeks. Notice period on the client side is 6 weeks. This is very long. There have been a couple of times over the years where I have got a really good job because I have been on 1-week notice and could start a new job in a hurry.
It requires away from home working. There is an expense allowance, but it isn't quite enough. I'd either be down about £100 a week on the expenses or I'd be submitting expense claims every week above the guideline expense amount, or I'd be staying in some flea-pit hotel.
Just wondering what the thoughts are on this one.
I could maybe get a bit more excited about it, but to top it off, it is also £15/day less than my current job. Although I will have to leave my current job in about 6 weeks anyway due to the work running out.
All the contract jobs I've had in the history of my working life, have been 1-week notice period on both parties (edit: I did have one senior expat job overseas which was a month notice, but this made sense for everyone due to the nature of that particular job).
My current job is coming to an end and I've managed to get another job. Contract just landed on my desk. It's setting off a few alarm bells already.
Notice period on my part is 8 weeks. Notice period on the client side is 6 weeks. This is very long. There have been a couple of times over the years where I have got a really good job because I have been on 1-week notice and could start a new job in a hurry.
It requires away from home working. There is an expense allowance, but it isn't quite enough. I'd either be down about £100 a week on the expenses or I'd be submitting expense claims every week above the guideline expense amount, or I'd be staying in some flea-pit hotel.
Just wondering what the thoughts are on this one.
I could maybe get a bit more excited about it, but to top it off, it is also £15/day less than my current job. Although I will have to leave my current job in about 6 weeks anyway due to the work running out.
Edited by creampuff on Friday 27th April 17:57
Mr Pointy said:
Surely itIt sounds as if there's a combination of factors that make it a rubbish offer, but that may be why they want 8 weeks notice - to stop people leaving.
Haha, the reason I got the offer was somebody quit for something better. I asked the guy who offered me the job why the notice period was so long and the answer was so there is enough time for a handover if somebody leaves. Errrrr, handivers aren't unique to this job and if they actually hired somebody on staff, the staffer would only have a month notice. As far as the package goes, it's not good, but is isn't really bad either. A lot of my former colleagues in oil/gas have been out of a job for two years or are working away without being on expenses at all.
Edited by creampuff on Friday 27th April 19:08
Well, something errr, interesting.
I read my current contract and realised that I'm on a 4-week notice period. A bit bothering all round as I arranged a start date in 2 weeks for the new job.
So I phoned the agent for job as soon as I realised I'd made a mistake with the notice period. I phoned them two days ago, which was only two business days after recieving the offer. The person who would be paying my invoices, who is not the agent but a consulting firm, is actually farming me out to another party. So it works Agent-> Consulting (labour hire) firm -> Ultimate place of work.
I've now had a heated and lenghy conversation with the agent and the farming-me-out-for-profit company where I accepted that I'd made a mistake with my notice period but said the 4-weeks is what in my contract and I need to honour it. Bear in mind the new contract has a 2 month notice and I've been told they expect me to stay for the whole length of the contract, so it is eyebrow raising for me that they are just telling me to jack my current job next week. I am fully aware that this means the offer may be withdrawn and I've told them I am aware of that.
Both of them have put various suggestions to me, which I find unethical and potentially damaging to my career along the lines of just telling my current company I'm not going to serve my notice period and not turning up. This is not going to happen.
So now I've given them a take-it-or leave it start date in early June. I'm really starting to hope they leave it.
I'm in two minds though about emailing them and actually withdrawing my application. Whaddya think?
I read my current contract and realised that I'm on a 4-week notice period. A bit bothering all round as I arranged a start date in 2 weeks for the new job.
So I phoned the agent for job as soon as I realised I'd made a mistake with the notice period. I phoned them two days ago, which was only two business days after recieving the offer. The person who would be paying my invoices, who is not the agent but a consulting firm, is actually farming me out to another party. So it works Agent-> Consulting (labour hire) firm -> Ultimate place of work.
I've now had a heated and lenghy conversation with the agent and the farming-me-out-for-profit company where I accepted that I'd made a mistake with my notice period but said the 4-weeks is what in my contract and I need to honour it. Bear in mind the new contract has a 2 month notice and I've been told they expect me to stay for the whole length of the contract, so it is eyebrow raising for me that they are just telling me to jack my current job next week. I am fully aware that this means the offer may be withdrawn and I've told them I am aware of that.
Both of them have put various suggestions to me, which I find unethical and potentially damaging to my career along the lines of just telling my current company I'm not going to serve my notice period and not turning up. This is not going to happen.
So now I've given them a take-it-or leave it start date in early June. I'm really starting to hope they leave it.
I'm in two minds though about emailing them and actually withdrawing my application. Whaddya think?
creampuff said:
Well, something errr, interesting.
Both of them have put various suggestions to me, which I find unethical and potentially damaging to my career along the lines of just telling my current company I'm not going to serve my notice period and not turning up. This is not going to happen.
You've signed two contracts which overlap and you are complaining that the solutions are unethical . . . . . Both of them have put various suggestions to me, which I find unethical and potentially damaging to my career along the lines of just telling my current company I'm not going to serve my notice period and not turning up. This is not going to happen.
You will have to provide an alternate for one or the other. Oh but that will hit your bottom line won't it - pity the poor contractor.
I have employed contractors and worked as a contractor.
^ Nope, I did not sign the new contract for the new job, because the 'contract' which landed in my inbox was both unsigned and had a start date different from what was discussed previously (i.e. earlier even to the start date I told them when I thought I was on 1-week notice).
A contract unsigned by the other party, with a wrong start date.... well I'm not signing anything or giving notice to my current job until I get a signed contract, with conditions, including start date, that I am prepared to accept.
So so far nobody has signed anything.
A contract unsigned by the other party, with a wrong start date.... well I'm not signing anything or giving notice to my current job until I get a signed contract, with conditions, including start date, that I am prepared to accept.
So so far nobody has signed anything.
Edited by creampuff on Wednesday 2nd May 18:40
I may have made an error with my original proposed start date, but I really dislike being told by a new client that I should break the terms of an existing contract, even after I have said I don't want to do that.
If they want me to stiff my current client, well they may well want to stiff me later on.
If they want me to stiff my current client, well they may well want to stiff me later on.
Have not heard back, so I guess they left it.
For this to make sense, remember that the way this works is Agent->Consulting labour hire company->Ultimate client
To remind myself later on and for general interest, here are the things about this which were pants:
1. Agent said there would be nothing unusual in my contract that I had not seen before. Contract (unsigned by them) then came in with a notice period twice as long as I'd ever seen before and it was not balanced - I had to give them more notice than they had to give me. Contract came with a restriction that I could not work with any of the consulting companies clients for 12 months - remember the consulting company is here is little more than a jumped-up agent, so this could prevent me from working for any number of companies later on which are totally unconnected to this role.
2. Agent and owner of consulting labour hire company both pressured me to break the conditions of my current contract by leaving within my notice period. Agent spun all manner of BS about how this was OK and how a notice period was unenforceable and a restraint of trade.
3.Agent and owner of consulting labour hire company both bad-mouthed the person who I'd be replacing. Although they did not actually name him/her, they talked about what trouble they had caused by exercising the 2-month termination clause in their contract.
4. Was sent an unsigned contract with a proposed start date different to anything which had been discussed.
5. After realising I had made an error with my start date (due to being on 4-week not 1-week notice), I told them 1 biz day after receiving their unsigned contract. They still had not told the ultimate client 2 days after I had told them and expected me to fix it for them.
6. Agent asked me several times if I could bring start date forward, even after I said that this would be difficult to achieve.
7. Agent asked me in the miniature of what I had discussed with my current client about maybe shortening my 4-week notice period. It's none of his business, either I can or I can't. The details of what I discuss between me an my client are between us.
8. Agent and owner of consulting labour hire company expected me to give notice to my current client based on an unsigned by them contract with an unachievable (even with 1-week notice) start date.
---
The above is what I found unacceptable. To top it off:
9. It was slightly less money than my current contract.
10. The expense allowance was very tight.
11. They pay monthly and only 30 days after submitting invoice, vs paying weekly 7 days after submitting invoice with my current client.
12. The consulting labour hire company is only a small company, though perhaps with bigger ambitions. I looked up their accounts on Companies House. They should be able to pay but I'd be taking an increased risk that they themselves would have cash flow problems.
13. I looked up the consulting labour hire companies other contractors on Linkedin (enough info about them leaked out during the interviews/discussions that I could figure out who they were). There seems to be an expectation that contractors will put the name of the consulting labour hire company on Linkedin and not the company where the work actually takes place. The consulting labour hire company is basically a no-name which nobody has heard of (though I'm sure they would like to change that). I'd be expected to provide free advertising for them by listing them on my Linkedin profile which currently lists the large engineering companies I've worked in and not the job-shop agents which I've worked through. I did not factor their free advertising or people reading my Linkedin profile and asking 'who are blah blah consulting' into my proposed day rate.
14. Agent talked to me like I was a first time contractor and said things which any experienced contractor would know not to be the case. Both agent and owner of consulting labour hire company left me with the impression that their primary interest was making money off me even if it meant breaking my contract and leaving a bad final impression with my current long-time client.
Shame; the ultimate client from what I've seen appears quite normal. It was only a short term gig so I could have lived with the slightly lower rate for only a few months.
For this to make sense, remember that the way this works is Agent->Consulting labour hire company->Ultimate client
To remind myself later on and for general interest, here are the things about this which were pants:
1. Agent said there would be nothing unusual in my contract that I had not seen before. Contract (unsigned by them) then came in with a notice period twice as long as I'd ever seen before and it was not balanced - I had to give them more notice than they had to give me. Contract came with a restriction that I could not work with any of the consulting companies clients for 12 months - remember the consulting company is here is little more than a jumped-up agent, so this could prevent me from working for any number of companies later on which are totally unconnected to this role.
2. Agent and owner of consulting labour hire company both pressured me to break the conditions of my current contract by leaving within my notice period. Agent spun all manner of BS about how this was OK and how a notice period was unenforceable and a restraint of trade.
3.Agent and owner of consulting labour hire company both bad-mouthed the person who I'd be replacing. Although they did not actually name him/her, they talked about what trouble they had caused by exercising the 2-month termination clause in their contract.
4. Was sent an unsigned contract with a proposed start date different to anything which had been discussed.
5. After realising I had made an error with my start date (due to being on 4-week not 1-week notice), I told them 1 biz day after receiving their unsigned contract. They still had not told the ultimate client 2 days after I had told them and expected me to fix it for them.
6. Agent asked me several times if I could bring start date forward, even after I said that this would be difficult to achieve.
7. Agent asked me in the miniature of what I had discussed with my current client about maybe shortening my 4-week notice period. It's none of his business, either I can or I can't. The details of what I discuss between me an my client are between us.
8. Agent and owner of consulting labour hire company expected me to give notice to my current client based on an unsigned by them contract with an unachievable (even with 1-week notice) start date.
---
The above is what I found unacceptable. To top it off:
9. It was slightly less money than my current contract.
10. The expense allowance was very tight.
11. They pay monthly and only 30 days after submitting invoice, vs paying weekly 7 days after submitting invoice with my current client.
12. The consulting labour hire company is only a small company, though perhaps with bigger ambitions. I looked up their accounts on Companies House. They should be able to pay but I'd be taking an increased risk that they themselves would have cash flow problems.
13. I looked up the consulting labour hire companies other contractors on Linkedin (enough info about them leaked out during the interviews/discussions that I could figure out who they were). There seems to be an expectation that contractors will put the name of the consulting labour hire company on Linkedin and not the company where the work actually takes place. The consulting labour hire company is basically a no-name which nobody has heard of (though I'm sure they would like to change that). I'd be expected to provide free advertising for them by listing them on my Linkedin profile which currently lists the large engineering companies I've worked in and not the job-shop agents which I've worked through. I did not factor their free advertising or people reading my Linkedin profile and asking 'who are blah blah consulting' into my proposed day rate.
14. Agent talked to me like I was a first time contractor and said things which any experienced contractor would know not to be the case. Both agent and owner of consulting labour hire company left me with the impression that their primary interest was making money off me even if it meant breaking my contract and leaving a bad final impression with my current long-time client.
Shame; the ultimate client from what I've seen appears quite normal. It was only a short term gig so I could have lived with the slightly lower rate for only a few months.
Edited by creampuff on Thursday 3rd May 12:26
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